jhr3uva90

"The Problem of the Little Brands," which discusses smaller car brands, including Acura. The author defines a "little" brand as one that sells roughly 200,000 cars or more. Acura is discussed near the bottom of the article.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/04/02/toy...partner=alerts

jhr3uva90

Correction: "small brand" is defined as fewer than 300,000 units.

jhr3uva90

Also, although Acura's 2006 sales are not as high as 2000, they are substantially higher than 2004. Also, the author does not take into account profit or the cost of the car. Basically, car sales in 2000 might have been higher for Acura because they were selling more 4-cylinder engine cars back then (Integra, CL) compared to now. Those cars might have increased volume but with less revenue and/or profit.

jhummer

Acura is stubborn which is good and bad, imo. Many parents backed young purchasers on Integra and RSX models. Dropping the 18k - 23k segmant was a mistake for the brand. It is clear Acura is trying to re-define the brand. It is unclear what it is they are aiming for? Are they trying to become the truck division of Honda possibly? They have the technology and loyalty to make some mistakes in recreating themselves. Whatever they do I still believe in the product.

123456SPEED

I guess I kind of agree now. Why should Acura drop the lower priced cars to compete with higher priced luxury brands? Most Acuras sell for $30-$45k whereas the Lexus and Germans lux are more like $40-60k+.

I'm fine with Acura doing it's own thing, but the average consumer wants simpler choices (luxury or non-luxury). I like Acura being in-between Lexus and Honda. Maybe near'luxury is too small a niche? It's a very competitive market.

RL06tech

Its hard to consider Acura an independent brand. More appropriately its an extension of Honda, thus its total sales are more than adequate. Most of the "brands" this guy is reffering to are big three divisions which simply made clone products and thus didn't offer any real vehicles but rather reshuffled versions of the same crappy car. The european makes that disappeared in the 80's did so not because of size but because they made very unreliable cars (they still do) which had very inadequate service and supplies networks, nothing was as frustrating as having your car in the shop for 3 mths waiting for "parts". If size were the answer, honda should have been one of the disappearing ones since their size at the time was minuscule. A brand survives because it builds good products that people are willing to buy, period. Only brands that take that simple statement to heart survive. All other business parameters, advertising, marketing and so on are BS if what you sell is crap. One company that has taken that theorem to heart and is thus thriving is Hyundai their immitation of Honda, which started by using the H as an emblem, has been very succesful they have improved quality and attention to detail so much that IMO they trail only Honda in those parameters, they even have toyota beat in build quality and trail Honda only in engineering prowess. If the CX9 I drove is an example, Mazda has also gotten the message, fit and finish in that vehicle were top notch, as was drivetrain refinement.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

See though everyone says Acura is doing so bad yet they outsold infiniti. I know a lot of people think acura is about to go down the shitter but I dont think there doing that bad. I mean there making profits something GM ford and Chrysler cant say. Granted there not at lexus level yet but I think it could be worse.

TampaRLX-SH

Honda is a relatively small car company compared to Toyota, even with Acura in the fold. I think this is to our benefit for product quality.

In its quest to trump GM I believe Toyota has stretched it resources and relaxed it's quality. The few new Toyota's I have been in of late have not impressed me with the fit and finish I have been a fan of for some time. Perhaps Toyota is dropping below Honda in the quality arena moreso than Honda surpassing Toyota quality.

But for both brands, I believe the US assembly is noticeably below par than the Japanese assembled models. I remember reading this past year that Toyota Japan was reaming its US counterparts for slipping quality, especially on Camry & Avalon. And there even was mention of it seeping upward to Lexus with the GS quality issues (of which I have personal experience ).

So Honda / Acura being a smaller auto company may prove to be to our benefit with quality over world domination & brand recognition. This is one attribute where I appreciate Honda being conservative in values. Hyundai would be smarter to target Honda over Toyota in it's business model. But in brand recognition, Toyota would likely be the benchmark. If Hyundai can make an arguably on par quality product with Honda, it may not have to produce the volume of Toyota to continue it's repectable growth and brand maturity. I frankly think Toyota has sat on it's laurels concerning it's (past) reputation for quality. But consumers know Toyota's reputation with or without the current products demonstrating it.

As we all have discussed in length out here, brand recognition typically attracts consumers moreso than the actual product & attributes. I am impressed to see the direction Hyundai is taking (although not ready to buy one). I am losing faith in Toyota even as it is about to become #1 US automaker. I am pleased with improvements I continue to see in Honda (even if Acura is still reinventing it's brand recognition) and I will be pleased if Honda continues this path without trying to be the best seller, best in class for any particular metric, or best brand name to be parked in my garage.

jhr3uva90

Notice how the author glosses over the fact that Mercedes also sells fewer than 300,000 units. Also, the author ignores the possibility that Acura sells fewer units than in 2000 because Acura no longer makes Integras, RSXs, or CLs. As Acura wisely abandons the lower end of the market and concentrates on vehicles costing $30K or more, their volume is going to be affected. I'd rather Acura seller fewer units that are more upscale than to mirror the Honda brand. However, I do agree with the author's assessment that Acura will not be fully taken seriously as a luxury brand until they make a luxury car. That means Acura needs to produce a full-size car (bigger than the RL) with at least a V8 engine. That car must NOT be FWD. Honda must be willing to let Acura lose money on that model in order to elevate the brand in the general public's eyes.

On a side note: remember that the general public does not know cars, they know brands. That's why you have so many little old ladies driving overrated C-class Mercedes. It will take a while for Acura to build the brand. In the meantime, I'm sure they are doing okay financially.

neuronbob

As long as Acura sells enough TLs and MDXs, which are the marque's lifeblood, they can afford to lose money on the RL, which is after all, sold worldwide now. As far as brands...my MIL is looking to buy a luxury car and until she saw my RL, she was considering only Mercedes, and C-classes at that. Ewww. Everybody knows Benz, BMW, and Lexus, but no one knows Acura. It's Acura's own fault with its piss-poor marketing in the past.

TampaRLX-SH

Damn them! <shaking fist>

I say we form a posse, gather some battering rams and torches and head to Torrence.

I say we kick butt, take names and get some answers!



Well, OK, that may not work. I better just have some chocolate cake.

jhr3uva90

Does Acura really want to be a luxury brand? They might be content with selling TLs and MDXs.

TampaRLX-SH

Honestly, that is a good, direct question for Acura. In the adverts I see, there really is less focus on luxury and more on technology and performance. I truly do not believe Acura sees itself as a luxury marque and seem to be defining a premium / upscale technology w/ performance marque.

It is a smaller slice the auto pie, but perhaps it will help Acura's identity solidify. Now if consumers can recall that identity as not being too specific, maybe Acura will hold some ground.

neuronbob

I'm sure the Honda executives have asked that question. The "Acura Advance" ad campaign is their current answer, which is "we like being first in tech that others will ultimately copy", rather than "we are a luxury car company".

JAB00

If Acura just spent more money in advertising they'd elevate the brand's image. Just look at all the cool Infiniti and Lexus ads. Soccer moms in Kansas eat up that kind of stuff.

TampaRLX-SH

I have to admit, I love Infinities ads, even more than Lexus (although I love the Lexus Christmas ads.)

You may have noticed Mercedes is striving to promote itself that it is simple to identify Mercedes, easy to distinguish. And BMW is well cemented in driving capabilities as the 'Ultimate Driving Machine'.

Toyota was known as a boring-oh-too-conservative brand for many years with 'oh what a feeling' being the apex of excitement in it's ad campaign. Lately you see more quirky, humorous and attention getting ads, especially in the truck line. I love the one where a meteor crashes into a Toyota truck and it clears the dust, driving on unscathed.

Honda remains buttoned up, smart, conservative and reaching towards efficiency and safety. It works for Honda branding. But that conservative restrain has bled into Acura (by mandate?) and even with ADVANCE the delivery is more soothing, restrained and quietly promotes the technology. The only 3 Acura commercials that really caught my eye where the TSX on the hilly road (roller coaster style) and 0 Gs were depicted in the cabin. The other was the RSX on a slot car like track with the city, zooming about. The TL fingerprint commercial was the most exciting and raw. The others? Though well made, they are a memorable whisper of image & features unlike Inifinties pronounced artful image. This advert for Honda Legend is more what I'd like to see over a whispering voice over of Acura ADVANCE. This advert actually does a BETTER job showing the LEGENDS attributes than Acura does with the RL.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gOsp3vczMQ


The Christmastime ads for Acura were playful with cars coming alive when the dealership closed, and did draw attenton to the brand over models, but to me it was too similar to the playful Audi ads where the cars drive off for an nightime romp while the owners sleep. Heck, even the cars depicted in both commercials were silver. Is Acura copying Audi or Audi emulating Acura?

jhr3uva90

I agree with TampaRL. Actually, I think the Japanese have better Legend ads than the US Acura RL ads. I think that's because Acura doesn't really want the RL in the first place.

Mokos23

I feel Acura is like the undecided person in college who is unsure what they want to do with the rest of their life. They keep on switching majors. Acura needs a direction and goal, which they don't have right now. First thing they need to do is release a 2 dr car again too, but not look cheap or boy racer like the RSX/Integra did. All of the luxury brands at least have one 2 dr model except Acura now. Also, Acura doesn't have any RWD cars either, but we already knew that.

neuronbob

That was a very effective ad. Acura really needs to fire the ad agency it uses (RRP) and get a new one to come up with an image and direction for the ads. I think they prefer the low-cost guerrilla-type marketing, I guess (e.g. users in places like Acurazine talking about the RL). Before you say anything, I don't work for Honda/Acura. But if I did....image would be the first thing I'd decide on.

mg7726

Honda needs to use their UK ad agency here in the States.

the current ads have no exciting content, and does not stir the 'soul'.

jhr3uva90

The current ad agency assumes that Americans are too stupid to care about stuff like SH-AWD or VTEC. If you look at how the mediocre Caddy STS outsells the RL, the Infiniti M, and the Lexus GS, I see their point.

Mokos23

Either that or Americans want to just buy American cars and keep their

TampaRLX-SH

Cadillac has the balls Acura has not.

Cadillac has been the quintessential blue hair mobile. And what do we see in the branding efforts? Rock n Roll. Now there is a model as to how to change perception of public image. To combat conservativisms, use a radical model that actually speaks to its target audience. They get it.

I like the sophisication of Acura ads, but truth is, I have to look for them and try to understand what Acura is trying to be.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Well acuras ads cant be all that bad I mean they outsold infinit by 80,000 cars so the public is stil buying more acuras or at least for now. I think acura has tons of potentional and it could be worse. There not going down like ford, GM and chrysler are. I think once the new TL and TSX comes out thats going to be HUGE for them.

However I agree that acura should be doing something to get the RL attention it deserves. I think the RL is a great value its just not many people know about it. Although I dont acura ever had high expections they only expected to sell 20,000 a year or so (although I doubt they ever did that).

gavine

My wife wanted me to get a Cadillac STS just because of the cool commercial where the car breaks-into a dance with a bunch of Mercedes and BMW's. It's amazing how much influence a commercial can have. I guess that's why most of the commercials on TV, it seems, are car commercials (or pharmaceuticals).

123456SPEED

Even the new Chevy TV ad I saw was interesting, had celebs and singers singing in their Chevys, an obscure (but great) song by Iris Dement, 'We're not the Jet set, we're the ol' Chevro-lett set". Great that GM can make fun of themselves as cars for everyday folk.