dwest1023

Well, the new Hyundai Genesis is at your local dealer. Let me say, in person the exterior of the car is gorgeous. Unfortunately, the car was in the showroom so I was not able to test drive it. I will try to do that tomorrow at another dealer. However as I suspected the fit, finish,and detail is not as good as a RL, or any of the High end sedans. It reminds me of a cheap china knockoff of a BMW 7 series. The car has more room then a 7 series, but that is about all I could compare with one. Until the 09 RL comes down to the 2gen price the RL will be in trouble. We all know the value of the RL but the Genesis is even more of a value, especially when Hyundai is forced to discount it. My Acura dealer was suppose to get a 09 RL in, but as yet I have not heard from him. As you all know the grille is a huge turn off , but the quality of the RL is too hard to ignore, so I will try to make myself like it. If not, I could learn to love the Genesis from what I saw today. I will update this post once I get to chance to drive the Genesis.

cai06

I'm suspicious about the Genesis, there is no secret in the nowadays globalized automobile industry, you get what you pay for. Labor, materials and R&D aren't getting cheaper anywhere in the world so they must be cutting corners somewhere. So quality should also be a big part when considering relative value/price. I'm not saying it's a bad car, just most likely not as good as Honda.

erick3

Dude, i'm freaking Korean. But in response to your post about the Genesis...at the end of the day, it's still a Hyundai. haha

LukeaTron

It's suprising how cheap R&D can be when you let you're competitors do it for you. Not that I'm knocking for them for it, mind you.

lumpulus

I'll say it again, the sales lost to people that buy a Genesis(That's a band, not a car) instead of an RL will be minimal to non existant....sales of the Hyundai will come from people with Sonatas and Spectras "moving up".

dwest, good luck to ya, but I think you're an exception to the rule....

As erick3 said...it's stll a Hyundai.

dwest1023

You might be correct. However it seems that a lot of folks are looking to move down and not up. The Genesis provides an alternative. (Maybe)

jftjr

I'm driving one today or tomorrow. I don't see it as moving down from an RL, more a lateral move. My biggest concerns, obviously, are (1) fit & finish, and (2) ride quality. If it has orange peel paint or rides like a Buick, I'm out of there.

On paper, it looks unbeatable for the price. But then again, if looking good on paper counted for anything, then the Flyers would have won the Stanley Cup about 8 times since 1974....

kirbyflorida

You better like it for the resale will be a killer.

Jackzilla

Better reserve your judgements and opinions until you have a chance to examine a Genisis up close and personal.

Car and Driver (this month's issue) briefly test drove one in Korea (more to come later) and reports the iterior execution ranks "not just better than Hyundai's" but fully up to being judged "against established luxury marques"

Mini-review was very positive for a main-line auto publication. Thought content was there, but that the car market was very different from 1989 when the Lexus bowed.

neuronbob

Interesting comments on fit and finish. Will have to put this on my test-drive schedule as well.

My beef is less with the brand (Hyundai is not as bad as it used to be) as with the dealership experience. I'm quite sure that the Genesis won't start with its own dealership network, and will only be found in Hyundai dealers. These folks are likely more used to dealing with a different sort than those who can afford an RL or others. The dealership experience may therefore not be as good as what we are accustomed to.

jftjr

You can say the exact same thing about the RL.

Regardless, I lease. I don't care. The first year residual will be subvented by the manufacturer anyway, and if it tanks after that, then I just turn it in and leave. Not my problem.

andysdesign3

hyundai will always be a hyundai...!!!..

taitando

I'd like to see it in person and actually drive it before making any kind of conclusion against the RL. People mock Hyundai for being a cheap knock off of what the japanese are doing, but let's remember this similarly happened with the japanese back in the 70's and 80's. I'm sure the Korean brands (with the Chinese closing in on them) have a ways to go to catch up with the Japanese, but they are definitely progressing. Hell, to many people out there, Acura is viewed as the Hyundai of the Luxury world.

Chas2

Ouch

dwest1023

I drove the Genesis today. With the V6, the car was Lexus smooth and almost as quite. If my eyes were closed I would have thought I was driven the Lexus LS460? There were no rattles and the car got out of its way very nicely. I had the salesmen in the car, so I could not drive it MY way. There is more room in the car then the BMW 7 Series. I was really impressed with the car. I did here a little tire noise when hitting bumps.There were no obvious flaws in the car. IT just seemed totally neutral. I did not get a chance to hear the top of the line Lexicon audio system as the dealer did not have any with that option yet. The system I did hear was very acceptable which is more than I can say about the systems I have heard in the Lexus. NOw get this! The lease on this car is 399 a month for 24 mouth with a residual of 66%. I am just about sold on this car. I just need to see and drive the top of the line model. I can live with the car for 24 months with no problem. You WILL not have any problem seating 4 or 5 in this car. The back seat has its own ac controls! The position of the controls are excellent and non confusing. The paint that I saw was flawless. There was no problem with the dealer experience in Fairfax VA,(the land of milk and honey). In fact the experienced was MUCH better then what I have experienced at ANY Aura dealer.
I say they have a home run. As you know, there is not a weekend I do not test drive a car. I have gone from Smart car to Jaguar XF. Most dealers in my area know me and the lady. Unless you are hung up on brand name, there is no way this car will not impress and I do not impress easy.


I also test drove the new 09 Maxima. Not sure what Nissan is doing, but let me tell you, its a G37 sport with 4 doors at less money. Fabulous is the word I will use to describe this car. I am not a fan of CVT tranny, but they got this one right. Smooth as silk, and not a hint of any shift. Unless the new RL is just too good to ignore, these are my two choices as of this date.

lumpulus

Glad, you're happy and thanks for the report...If you buy a Genesis, please come back and tell us when it starts to fall apart.

dwest1023

I owned a 2002 Hyundai Accent, and never had any trouble with it. It had never seen the service bay. Can't say the same about the RL. I believe for 2 years the Genisis will hold up just fine. I would never purchase a luxury car. Leasing is the only way for me. My commute is 3 miles. Works well for me. If I do buy I will still be around. I do own my TSX and well as 3 other cars. I see you have not driven a Hyundai recently. Sure they were junk many years ago, but not now. The new Sonata is very bit on par with a Honda Accord. I would not have said that two years ago.

jftjr

I went today, but they didn't have one (even though they called me and said they did....). Anyway. I can confirm the $399/mo 24 mo ($3K down) on the V6, and they said it'd be "about $70 a month more" for the V8.

If it's as good as it seems, I'll be all over that like white on rice.

taitando

That's similar to my own experience with the RL. Funny enough, I had more problems with my '05 RL than I did with my '06 Audi A4, which is supposedly a problematic make. Of course, I attribute that to being the RL's first year run, but everything was covered by the warranty in any case.

On the other hand, you'd probably see some issue with the Genesis being the first model year run, but I'm sure it'd be covered under warranty as well. I'd lease too versus buying.

dwest1023

I understand that, the Genesis has been out in Korea for 2 years, so hopefully all the kinks have been worked out. As I said the fit and finish is not what you see on BMW or MB. Not even the RL, but what they are giving you for 36K is incredible. With the lease deal Hyundai is offering, its gonna be hard to pass this car by. Acura better come off that MSRP jazz on the 09 RL very fast. The competition out here is murder.

fafpak

Motive magazine compares the Genesis to an E-550. The article is quite insightful, and the two cars are more comparable than I would have thought

http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...s/Motive.shtml

larrynimmo

i do admire the Genesis. for those that doubt the quality of Hyundai need to look at the success of the Sonata and the Azera. Both cars are exceptional value vehicles. Where do Hyundai vehicles especially shine....JD Powers initial quality...two year lease should get you into a vehicle that should be world class. From a reliability stand point, I would much rather buy of 2 year old RL than a 2 year old Genesis, but only time will tell.

The Geneis will probably be limited production (to control availability & price) and will sell very well. They had limited availability for the Azera. Other than end of year clearance, I don't think the Azera has ever had more than 1k rebate. I came very close to buying an Azera before my Acura. When I buy a car, I always look at my net cost for 4 years of ownership and after the deadly hit on Azeras resale value, the Acura is within 2k of the Azeras cost of ownership. (2k more for the Acura is well worth it to me)

dwest1023

Thanks for the article. I was wondering about the suspension, since I did the have the opportunity to really DRIVE the car. It seems this article described what I saw in my test drive. Would have been nice is the Genesis offered a sport package. The article was spot on about the buttons in the car. Hate to say it, but they are cheap feeling. Even my 06 Frontier has better feeling switches. Oh, wellI guess you can't have it all for 36K.

saw1

Very interesting comment, I am not sure I agree. I have a Lexus, Acura, and Mazda, and I would say the dealer experience rates as follows:

1. Acura (Jackson Acura, Atlanta). Best of the three by far. The building is new, modern, and the staff is great. They have a great lounge area with 60' plasma tv, and there is a coffee bar with snacks and drinks. The service department is easy to work with, it is easy to get a loaner car, and they have a quick stop service area for oil changes and minor stuff.

2. Mazda (Mazda of Roswell). Renovated 2 years ago, they are quick, nice, and easy to deal with. I have never had a problem in my 9 years with my Miata.

3. Lexus (Nalley Lexus Roswell), They just flat out suck!!!!! Had a bad dealer experience that led me to go 90 miles south of Atlanta to get my wife's Rx330. The service advisors are nice and friendly, but not all that intellegent. They are always wrong with their time estimates, and they damaged my car while performing a routine procedure, the service associate told me that the tech was rushing to get my car done and accidentally cut a 1 inch gash into the dashboard. Ok, no big deal, fixed under warranty, but they never called me when the part came in, and I had to call them, then I had a call into the service manager who never called me back. Great job Lexus customer service. This proved to me that Lexus is no better and probably no worse than any other dealer, including Hyundai, Chevy, or Ford.

In summary, I don't think that Hyundai will dissapoint Acura, or Lexus, or BMW owners with their customer service. I can guarantee you that they are going to get their chance!

jftjr

I agree. The Hyundai dealer closest to me is owned by a company that runs a very successful Honda franchise. I asked about things like loaner cars for service, and other amenities, and they provide loaner cars, extended service hours, and similar Acura/Honda amenities (beverages, wifi, workcenters, etc) for their customers. Although if I take a Genesis in for service, I don't want an Accent for a loaner car.... my clients would laugh their asses off.

The only downside I can see is possibly having to be in the same waiting room with other non-Genesis Hyundai owners. Then again, I've had to endure being in Acura waiting rooms with backwards-hat RSX owners and obnoxious middle-management TSX'ers, too, so... *shrug* :P

(the foregoing was sarcasm, in case anyone didn't get it.)

///M Roadster

2009 Hyundai Sonata ranked higher than Toyota Camry and Honda Accord in recent Motortrend comparison, 2nd place behind new VW Passat.

To those who said "It's a Hyundai". I hope you realize that those who are loyal to MBs and BMWs could look at your TLs and RLs and think, "It's just an Acura". It's funny to read such remark in Acura forum...if it was from RollsRoyes forum or something, I wouldn't agree but at least I could understand.

RL definitely deserves respect for what it has to offer. And I would think Genesis deserves respect for what it has to offer as well.

I wouldn't drive Genesis only because it just isn't proven yet. Only the brave ones can go for first year model of anything. But once it gets more established, I think it would be a great alternative for a comfortable family sedan.

dwest1023

[QUOTE=///M Roadster]2009 Hyundai Sonata ranked higher than Toyota Camry and Honda Accord in recent Motortrend comparison, 2nd place behind new VW Passat.

To those who said "It's a Hyundai". I hope you realize that those who are loyal to MBs and BMWs could look at your TLs and RLs and think, "It's just an Acura". It's funny to read such remark in Acura forum...if it was from RollsRoyes forum or something, I wouldn't agree but at least I could understand.

RL definitely deserves respect for what it has to offer. And I would think Genesis deserves respect for what it has to offer as well.

I wouldn't drive Genesis only because it just isn't proven yet. Only the brave ones can go for first year model of anything. But once it gets more established, I think it would be a great alternative for a comfortable family sedan.[/QUOTE

The car has been out for 2 years, just not here.

Rexorg

Local dealer is showing the V8 with the $4K option package for $42K exactly including the $750 destination charge. If you could get one at that price or lower it would seem to be a great deal. That's what, about $11K less than a comparable '09 RL? However, the adage "You get what you pay for." is still true, or is it?

dwboston

[QUOTE=dwest1023]Who are you trying to convince here, us or yourself? It's your $, take the plunge if you believe so strongly in Hyundai. I'd suggest doing a search for the recent thread that contained the Japanese video of a Genesis road test. It was less than complimentary.

AsianTL

Well said.
It is your money and it is your choice.
You do not have to convince us (me). I will never buy Hundai . period. I only move up not down.

taitando

Actually, it hasn't. The concept was introduced in 2007 with the 1st production model appearing in its home market (South Korea) in January 2008. I'm sure they've been testing it for 2 years, but that goes with most cars.

lumpulus

Motor Trend is a joke, always has been. Their reviews goes to whoever has the most advertising dollars in the current issue.Thier only complaint about the Accord was about styling.(Which I love)

Anyone that says, "It's only an Acura" is delusional.

Mike_TX

I continue to be amused by the people who laugh and say "It's a Hyundai" the same way they might refer to dog droppings on the sidewalk.

These people apparently aren't old enough to remember when Honda and Toyota entered the U.S. market. I am, and I'll tell you the first Civics to hit these shores were absolute tin cans. They were tiny, and had little-bitty wheels, and the doors and body panels were so thin you could almost punch your fist through them. People laughed at them and called them roller skates (and other less-flattering terms). Ditto for the early Toyotas.

People don't say those things now, do they? People don't still write them off just because their products 30 years ago were crap. Hyundai is breaking into this market the same way the Japanese makers did - by first introducing cheap transportation, then gradually bringing in their better products. Go ahead and write them off if you want, but this car isn't crap.

Hyundai is a massive industrial company, and they sell their cars all over the globe. They aren't a bunch of monkeys trying to figure out how to build a car that won't fall apart. They're a sophisticated company trying to offer as much value as possible for the money ... just like everyone else. And it looks like they're doing a helluva job of it.

I'll say this - I'd expect a Hyundai Genesis to be at least as high-quality as anything coming out of Detroit!

.
.

jftjr

For Dog's sake, I hope it's better built than *that*....

lumpulus

The BIG difference between Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai, is that Honda and Toyota, and Datsun for that matter, while their sheet metal was not great, built cars with near bullet proof drive trains. I started out in the 70s as one of those "Japanese cars are made out of recycled beer cans" people, until my friend in High School got a Datsun B210 and proceeded for the next two years to try to kill it, and just couldn't. That sold me.

Korean cars are built as cheaply as possible thoughout, and it shows. To charge the prices they do, you have to cut corners somewhere.

To say the Genesis will equal Detroit quality, to use your analogy, is like saying the cat poop is equal to dog poop...they both still stink.

JLTSX07

For what it's worth, my mom recently purchased a new 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited with the 3.3L engine. It's a great little Suv. It is super quiet, and handles well. I'm still an RDX fan, but I would definitely recommend the Hyundai. She currently has 12k miles on it, and hasn't had ONE issue with it yet. Hyundai has DEFINITELY stepped up their game..

dwboston

If Hyundai is so great, put your $ where your mouth is and trade in your precious LS and buy one...or two. I won't hold my breath waiting.

larrynimmo

why attack Mike...can't you appreciate more than one car...i do. My wife's 2002 Avalon is ripe for renewal. Our shopping list includes another Avalon, Lexus ES, the new Accord....and yes the Genesis. While I would like to believe that it is my choice, my wife will get what she wants. She'll sit and a car and doesn't like the angle of the steering wheel, she'll say were done here and that car will be dropped from the list. I could live with a second RL but that won't happen.

dwboston

I'm not "attacking" poor little Mike. He chooses to come here and educate us misguided Acura owners with how great Lexus and now Hyundai is. If Hyundai is so damn great, let's see Mr. Lexus trade in his LS and buy a few. Otherwise, with all due respect, he can sell his opinions over at Club Lexus.

ssim3

Sounds like soeone has been hanging out on the e90 boards with my car is great and all others suck.