alfadoctor

we had a interesting experience the other day coming from Phoenix to San Diego. As you climb up out of the desert which was 106 at the time, the car was running fine. As we progressed up the grade, the car suddenly died. We managed to coast over to the side of the road with out anyone running over us. The car was not running.We waited a couple of minutes and the car restarted. We started up the road again and it died once more. I looked under the hood and saw nothing wrong or smelled anything out of the normal. Both fans were running. We surmised that the car had gotten to hot.

The temperature gauge was above normal but it wasn't even to the mid range mark on the gauge. The temperature gauge in the RL leaves a lot to be desired, that even running above the normal position it gives no indication it is running hot.

Is there an automatic shut down when the car reaches a certain temperature? That was the only thing we could surmise.

We let the engine cool down, shut off the a/c and made our way to San Diego. As we drove we called and ordered from our local Napa store a new radiator. Since the car has 190,000 miles the radiator must be packing up. Our 97 RL went through the same issues and needed a new radiator. So far the car has been running fine just above normal position and we should not have any more issues getting home as we only have one major grade to pull getting back home. We just won't run the A/C. .

thoiboi

Check your battery terminals and cables

alfadoctor

I did a check of the car before we left and that was on my list of things to review. the terminals are all clean and tight. I bought some Napa terminal sealer so they won't have any corrosion. Good idea! Since the gusage is running above what used to be normal, the radiator has seen better days. I got one at cost through my local Napa dealer and saved a lot of money over other sources. O'Reilly actually had a better price but with the holidays I wasn 't able to get one in a reasonable time.

oo7spy

Fuel pump. There is a service bulletin on early model KB1s for an improperly calibrated fuel pump that causes fuel cutoff at high altitude. I believe the technical term is "vapor lockout". It's happened a handful of times here. Phoenix sits over 1000 feet. If you were doing any climbing, that would explain your symptoms 100%. Nothing is wrong with your car. You just need a properly calibrated fuel pump to go through mountains.

alfadoctor

Interesting you brought this up. Being it was a hot day it acted just like a typical vapor lock situation. Once we got the car idling it stumbled on the first take off from where we were parked, from then on we nursed it up the hill in the slow lane totally expecting the shut down to happen again. It didn't but never the less we were "gun shy" about the car shutting down.
There is no fuel filter other than what is in the pump, so that is a problem you can not rectify like we did with the other 97 RL that we had.
So share with me what I need to do to get a fuel pump that is calibrated for high altitude since I live at 5500 feet near Jerome AZ. I call Acura and ask for a high altitude fuel pump?
What is odd is that all these miles the car has never had an issue, until the other day when out of the blue it just shuts down. Like you said...like a vapor lock condition. My fuel injected Alfa used to have that condition because the return line to the tank was rubber covered and the heated fuel would get so hot you could actually hear it bubble in the tank. We fixed it by removing the rubber coating and the problem never came back.

oo7spy

The TSB is 07-003, but I can't find a free version online this morning. They changed their calibration after the TSB was released. There shouldn't be any more bad pumps on the shelves.

You should be able to just order a new pump, pop up the back seat, and replace it. A dealer should be able to reference the TSB for you if it matters.

I think the reason you were affected is due to heat. I don't understand the phenomenon enough to assess it past altitude and heat.

4strokes

^ I agree, it's unlikely this exact heat & altitude factor would ever duplicate itself again.^
Also note: One of the first things I do when a engine acts like it's vapor locking is OPEN the gas cap, if I hear a SWOOSH suction sound, I replace the gas cap.
Sometimes it can be just that simple. A few years ago the stealership replaced 2 fuel pumps, filter, lines, pressure regulator & a MAF sensor on my wife's Monte Carlo SS under warranty inside of 4 months & it would still quit running on her if she drove over 10 miles in one direction.
The last time It quit was while I was driving it home from the dealership. I opened the gas cap & heard the suction swoosh sound, left the cap a hair loose & drove it back to the dealer without any problems, they replaced the cap & it never did it again.

TampaRLX-SH

http://photos.imageevent.com/astrobo...sb/B07-017.pdf

oo7spy

^Possible, but vapor lock is more likely.

alfadoctor

We drove home in 105 deg heat today via Riverside/Blythe/Phoenix to home with out any issues. I have to say that pulling the grade up towards Sunset rest stop had me concerned after the last issue with the car. There were no issues at all. The radiator gauge still shows above normal temps. when I get the new radiator installed, I will take a photo of the temp gauge before and after comparison to post here.

What does concern me is that the car just flat quit and the Audi behind me dang near rear ended me and pulled a major swerve to miss us. We could have been rear ended and that really could have ruined our day as well as everyone else wanting to get up that grade.

The radiator will be here on Friday and I will put in two new hoses, radiator cap, as well as a thermostat just to be sure all the bases are covered.

I have a recall notice to take the car in for the passenger side air bag replacement. I will ask about the TSB on the fuel pump and my issue of it quitting on us. I really don't want to be out of pocket expense of the pump (list is $335) but see if Honda/Acura will help in that regards as a good will gesture (Yeah right). If you don't ask you don't know the answer.

oo7spy

Is your temp gauge over 50%? When was the last time you did a coolant flush? Have you considered that driving around the mountains in 100+ degree weather is causing a strain on your cooling system and that there is nothing actually wrong with it? My '95 Legend went 190k miles and 15 years on the stock radiator and it even took the brunt of a dog to the lower frame at 55 mph when it was 11 years old. The only thing I ever replaced was the thermostat and radiator cap, and I sold the car. I've never heard of a Legend radiator failure.

The idea you don't want to spend money on what actually caused your issue but are willing to shell out $$$ on a new radiator is dumbfounding. You don't have to pay MSRP on a fuel pump to fix your issue.

alfadoctor

What I don't understand is why you are saying your situation with your Legend should apply to my car? Having been a professional mechanic, I should know something about what I am saying. The temperature gauge on the Acura which was the same as my 97 with over 225,000 miles when I sold it is not accurate. When it is is at 50% on the dial you are over heated. If you notice the dial on a normal RL will run about 25%. MIne is running up closer to 40% at this time. There was new coolant put in a few months ago when I put in new motor mounts so that isn't the issue.

I choose to spend my money where I feel it is needed. The problem is that if you removed the end cap of a radiator to rod it out or check the flow of the tubes, you cannot put it back together. I will take it to a radiator shop and have it checked for flow. If it proves to be good, then I have a spare radiator. If it proves there is a flow issue, it goes into the recycle pile. Had we been involved in a rear end collision due to the car issue, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You want to come to the house where you and I can go over various scenarios, you are most welcome.

alfadoctor

To carry this a step further, I spoke at length to a service advisor at the local Acura dealer. He found the TSB on the vapor lock situation. He said with as many miles as we have on the car, Acura would not help much if at all. The Sr. advisor said he has never heard to this situation before in all the years he has worked on Honda's/Acura's. Shows you just how rare this issue is.

We continued the conversation in depth, and suggested that the fuel pump be replaced at some point along with the relay that controls the fuel pump. That sounded prudent. He said that he had a new 2016 Acura that needed two relays for the fuel pumps replaced, so it wouldn't be out of the question to consider that as part of a solution. As to the over heating he said be sure to check the passenger side fan which is for the A/C to make sure it is running. If it is "lazy" which is "working intermittently" then the car could be running on the warm side with the A/C running. Sounds logical, hence I will road test the car this afternoon and verify the fans. Worst case scenario is that I have to cancer the radiator order and put in a new fan.
Hey...look, I am here to solve an issue and I am open to suggestions and to offer some solutions if I can. "We" can work this out and all is good for the body of owners. If my problem shows up in someone else's car then we know where to go look.
"

oo7spy

Here are my thoughts. Feel free to take them or leave them.

- 50% on the temp gauge is completely normal and not overheating. Normal temp range is 40-50%.
- If we were to survey every member's RL, none of them would be at 25% with an engine at normal temp.
- The Legend hasn't changed all that much over the years. It along with other Hondas has had various common problems, but cooling systems are not one of them. I have heard of thermostat, radiator cap, and water pump failures, but I have never heard or a radiator failure in a Honda that wasn't in an impact.
- The SA's anecdotal evidence is most often worthless. Acura created a technical service bulletin because it knows there is an issue with the RL fuel pump at high altitude. IIRC, it only affects 2005 to early 2007 RLs. That leaves 45,000 RLs max for him to come across. The 3-4 times its happened here, it was at over 5,000 feet. The chances of any one SA experiencing this issue is minuscule. It is a real issue regardless.
- The A/C condenser fan has been a relatively common issue here. It is worth checking for proper functionality.
- It is your money and your car. You may do what you please with it. I am only trying to help, and I am doing so in two ways. I am informing you of the issue you experienced, and trying to help you spend the least money to fix it.

alfadoctor

I checked the fans this afternoon, and I have both fans running at low and high speed. The fans cycled so I know that they are working.

Once you have experienced this shut down it makes you wonder when it will do it again. We just completed a trip to Grand Junction CO from Arizona and it was out across the high desert and never even a hint of a car issue, and the elevation was about 4000-7000'.

At some point in the near future I am going to get a new fuel pump...17708-SJA-A02 The A02 is the later model pump. In sourcing parts, Amazon was at $383 which I also found on a couple of Acura parts websites. RockAuto was $232 for a Spectra pump and $242 for a Carter. Suggestions?

007spy...thank you for your advice and duly noted.

TonyCD

He's helped a lot of people. His knowledge of this specific model is nothing short of amazing.

4strokes

MODULE ASSY., FUEL PUMP for 2007 Acura RL|17708-SJA-A02

$334.80 & it's an OEM pump !