So I get bored on Saturday waiting for service and decide to take a stroll through the new car lot. Of course as soon as I get into sight, the salesmen are like flees on a hounddog. "Hi, How can we be of service today?" yada, yada.

So I'm looking at a new 2005 RL as well as a 2006 RL, and a saleman starts talking about how nice of a car it is, etc. He had no idea I had a 2005 RL.

I say, "It looks like the dropped the ponies in 2006." Of course, I've read about the conversion of HP measurements and know the real story.

He states: "Yeah, Acura had to. The 05's were pumping out more power than the NSX's and the insurance companies said they would jack-up the rates unless we pulled back abit. You know, it makes the 05's a real gem like this one, and if you can still find one, they are selling at premiums over the 06's."

I cracked a wry smile and let him blabber. Finally he said, "what kind of car are your driving now?"

I said "the 2005 RL getting an oil change in your service department currently."

 

While I might give him credit for creativity, I'd have reported him for blatantly lying to you. That kind of crap is what makes people hate car dealers, and it's got no place in a high-line auto franchise.

 

I thought about reporting him, but it's like complaining about your steak being undercooked. They take it back to the kitchen and spit on it before cooking it some more. He may have been buddies with the mechanic working on my poor RL.

Unfortunately many car salesmen are like cooks; previous employers might have been Honest Duncan's used cars or the Waffle House.

 

Why do the fucking retard car salesman always feel the need to lie instead of just being honest?

Or are they all really that poorly educated on the cars they sell?

 

so how did he reacted once he got busted? if i am you i would embarrass him right there for being a lying azz...

 

what an idiot

 

Only a poker champion could keep a straight face while the moron salesman was shovelling out a load of bull like that. I would have pissed myself laughing.

 

I would have been like ok, well how much are you selling the 06 for then? since the 05s are selling for roughly 42 they should give you the 06 for 40

 

just how much hp is the 06 getting??

 

290HP... adjusted for the SAE testing

 

What does that mean? 290HP adjusted for SAE?

Sorry for being ignorant, but I'm thinking 290 is 290 and 300 is 300.

Bottom line/question -- Do the 2006 RLs have the same HP as the 2005's?

 

Yes, they are the exact same. The engine has not changed at all. When I say adjusted - it is because all the auto mfgrs are starting to use a standardized way to test HP so all the cars have numbers which are tested equally. The auto mfgrs will test in conditions which are more favorable to their ratings - so no for equality they are all using the same testing standards.

 

"For the 2006 model year, all Acura horsepower and torque specifications have been updated to reflect revised Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1349 (Rev 8/04) net calculations that went into effect in January of 2005. These new calculations reflect a number of significant changes in the way horsepower and torque are measured and may cause SAE net horsepower and torque totals published in 2006 media materials to differ from the figures published in previous years. To avoid confusion, all 2006 Acura press materials will specify “SAE net (Rev 8/04”) after all horsepower and torque figures to denote adherence to the new standards. ""

 

i think they just include the fuel pump now when they rate it...

 

YES. The engine output has not changed.

All that's changed is the way it's being measured, according to a revision of SAE (that's Society of Automotive Engineers, btw...) standards.

If you're interested in what the change is, read here:

http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/details.htm


The change affects the way all cars sold in the US are rated by horespower. Some go down, some go up, some stay the same.

All that's changing is the number, though, not the actual power output. This is akin to using a different ruler to measure something. If the ruler changes size, the number changes -- but the thing being measured isn't actually changing.

 

Excellent example

 

Just like 0 degrees C is the same as 32 degrees F. Don't understand why that's so hard to grasp. Just a different form of measuring.

 

I am a 'retard car salesman' and have been one for almost 3 years.

In answer to your question, most sales people are hired by a dealership and not given proper training and 8 out of 10 don't last more than a few months. Many people also do not take the time to learn all of the details of every product.

 

And some salesmen (like CL6) go the extra mile and spend their free time researching their cars on the internet to learn every detail.

BTW, I was wondering if Acura salesmen work completely on commision. I actually felt a little guilty when I got my RL, because at the price I paid, I knew they couldn't be making any money (or commission) off this sale.

 

Thats how I felt when I bought my TL - so I sent my salesperson a card and a hundred bucks (not much, but better than nothing)

 

CL6,
Really now, why do you make that comment about yourself?
The fact that you choose to join this forum, aquire knowledge & post yourself tells us your on the ball when it comes to staying on top of RL issues!

In every profession in life, there are sleezers. No exceptions!

Sadly, car consultants seem to be bagged with that image because of the nature of the business.

In life all people aquire a certain "moral ethic", it truly defines who they are & how we percieve them.
It goes deep, defining what kind of human beings they (we) are, and we label these traits.
Likewise, "work ethic" is an extension of "moral ethic". Usually a person with good, honest, caring moral ethics will show the same in in business & work as in private life.

For instance, you are in a grocery store, the cashier gives you back a $20 instead of a $10......do you keep it or come clean?
If you keep it, odds are at work you are a like minded. Your work ethic is an extension of your moral ethic.

If we all go to the same grocery store & buy the same 10 items, then compare reciepts, we all should have payed the same price! That is the nature of the retail business.

The problem is in the car business, it is the consultants job to sell the vehicle at the max profit he can...for both his benifit (commision) & the dealers bottom line!
If that means one customer pays more than the guy before him did for the same model car.....that is acceptable! In most other cases, we would label that as being unethical!

Knowing that is the case, I find it incumbant to me to try to find the real "moral/work ethic" of the consultant I am working with.
I can't say his work ethic is sleezy cause he wants to charge me $1k more than the other guy for the same car....I must (and do) understand it is his job!
My job is to get the car for the best price I can!

The hardest thing for me is telling a good honest consultant I will not be purchasing from him. I enjoyed a good repore with an RL consultant before deciding to go for an M35x instead. Until I found a good comfort level with an infiniti consultant, I missed that individual!

There are great consultants out there that listen to the client's needs.
It's a tough, tough business, sprinkled with it's fair share of sleezers.
picking them out of the crowd is all that is needed, which is what started this post to begin with!

 

Steve - Excellent post.

 

From your experience in the industry, would you say it actually deserves the flack it gets? Yourself aside, would you say most car salesmen are out to make a give people a good deal or put them through the ringer? I already bought my TL for ~35k with extended warranty and some other package, and even if I "overpaid" I still feel happy about the purchase.

I'm just curious if all this 'evil car salesman' mumbojumbo is hype or carries weight. That, and if there are ways to tell you're being scammed.

 

In life do not paint everything or one with the same brush. There are many 'sleazy' sales people in all walks of life. In the car business it is particularly true. My experience has also taught me that there are plenty of sleazy customers as well. It can be difficult picking those out.

I make a big effort to learn the Acura product inside and out and this requires a great deal of time.

Now let's be clear that the price of the car is on the window. That is the price the manufacturer believes to be fair. For a variety of reasons going back many decades, it is possible to pay less than that price. But there is nothing wrong with someone paying the price that's printed right there in front of them. It would be wrong, however, for me to lie to them about that price. But paying MSRP is not unethical. People paid MSRP for over 2 years when the MDX came out.

I don't want to get into a verbal war with anyone here, I simply wanted to point out that not every person who sells Acuras or other cars is 'retarded' and the fact this person didn't admit they 'didn't know' might be more about him that his job title.

 

He never said all sales people are retarded. His point was that this guy was and that point was proven. As for the negative stereotype against car salesman, even you said 8 out of 10 of those guys dont know anything about the car they are selling. What does that mean? the stereotype is 80% accurate according to your statistics.

 

I did not state 80% were retarded, I stated that 8 out of 10 do not last more than a few months. Re-read my post, all the information was contained in it.

 

In response to an earlier post, yes, sales is generally a commission-only business, however each dealership can set their own rules. For me, when I have sold an RL, I will make $150 for my trouble, not to mention the 2 hours that go into explaining the car and the technology to the owner who cannot possibly absorb it all.

Some dealerships will pay only $100, some $200. Of course, if you sell an RL for more than the minimum amount you will make more than this.

And many of the badly behaving sales people in this industry are that way because their managers push the crap out of them to sell cars. After all, the customer will buy a car, but will they buy it from you?

 

After driving 04' TSX, 05' TL and now 05' RL, I have had enough time in all three of these to be able to sell anybody one of these cars if they are looking in the price range. I have done it with my 4 of my cousins now (RL, and 3 - TL's), and a couple to other friends (6- TL's, 2 TSXs) I should have claimed my commission Great cars.

CL6 - if all the sales people were like you, doing all this research, I swear - the bad name car salesmen have would go away. You must be one hell of a helpful guy to your customers.

 

Good point CL6,
Customers can be sleazy SOB's as well, & I am sure you get many during the course of the year! Tough business dealing with them indeed!

I would like to hear what sleazy customers do.
I myself try to be courteous & understanding in the "negotiation", and very upfront & sincere (to a fault).

I am curious, what are sleazy customer tactics that make it hard on the process?
Maybe you can put together a top 10 of things sleazy customers do!

I don't want this to be a flame war of consultants vs customers.....it is not, & I trust VP will not let it get out of hand.

The oppurtunity does exsist to see the side of the delaer consultant & what he has to put up with also!

 

I also would like to know what customers do. I have had my share of sleezy salesmen - especially the one who sold me the RL (another thread some of you have read). But, for example, the guy who sold me my Infiniti was actually pretty damn good. Never pushy - never questioned me about my age (doing that immediately pushes me to another dealer).

And yes, Steve is correct - I won't let it turn into a flame war of consultants vs. customers. If everybody wants to hear both sides of the story (as I surely would LOVE to hear a sales persons side of the story) I will allow it - but guys, lets keep it civilized. We are all grown people. (I say this in advance, because I know it will turn into a flame war sooner or later)

 

Customers? Oh they do many things. They use up a lot of your time, you get them their numbers, then they go someplace else and save $50. Or they are unreasonable and want to buy your car for invoice and sell their car for retail. They use up your time and return a few days later and deal with another sales person because they think they will save more money. They tell you they'll be in a certain day, etc. you stay late they never show up and don't return your calls. Or they will negotiate a deal then keep insisting on more 'free' stuff like spoilers or whatever. They buy the car from you, use a lot of your time, give you a bad survey and this affects your pay.

I will say that overall the sales people can be worse than the customers will, however.

There is a saying that goes 'buyers are liars' and I have, against my better judgement, believed a customer and been screwed as a result. So customers take what they hear with a grain of salt and vice versa.

But many customers make things worse because they grind for another $100, etc... and the sales people, because they are under pressure, will do their best to get the customer to show up and try and 'bump' them which can create some bad blood.

I don't act this way but some sales get away from me as a result. It is a very tough industry no two ways about it. I am glad I work for Acura and drive an Acura and they make a good product. But it can be tough to read people on this board talking about 'stealerships' and the like. People with bad attitudes or who have a 'I'm out to get you' attitude do make things worse.

Look, whenever you're dealing with that much money and a 'negotiable' price customers can get very upset and rattled plus they think they will get screwed. On the sales side, it is in my best interest to sell the car for as close to what Acura thinks its worth. Of course, I am honest and upfront with them but it is an uneasy relationship by definition.

 

CL6, you have proven that you are not one of the "retard" car salesman that I referred to in my post. That label is reserved for those idiots who don't take the time and effort to learn the product, get the latest information, and don't answer customer's questions truthfully.

I have worked as a purchasing consultant on probably as many cars as you have sold and have worked with a ton of different cars salesman across all sorts of brands, new and used cars, and different dealerships. If a salesman treats me right, then he will earn my recommendation when people come to me to ask where they should buy their car and I always go back to the same salesperson if they are still at that dealership.

The problem that most of the morons in the sales industry fail to realize is that they can say "i don't know" and not give a bad impression of themselves or the product that they sell. I would be more likely to work with someone who was honest than with someone who BSes their way through a response.

 

Good to hear. I think it is human nature to not want to say 'I don't know' but in sales this is a critical skill to master.