SpicyMikey

Don't know how many are aware, but MB is offering what seems like a killer deal on leftover E350's (2010's just came out this month). MB is offering $10,000 dealer incentive plus subsidized MF of 0.00165. Residual stinks at 46% but that's to be expected for a leftover.

So, I called my local dealer and said I want to do an Invoice minus $10k deal on an 09 E350. They eagerly said "yes" come on in. I was excited. So I we went on the lot and looked at them. They had a maxed out E350 with Premium I and II packages, along with the Sports Package. MSRP=$62k. The deal would be $48k with a great MF of 0.00165. Monthly payment out the door was about $720 for a 3yr 10k lease.

Believe it or not, I walked away. Even at that price it was still a tad more expensive than my RL and it would be a step down IMO.
- No AWD.
- No Adaptive cruise or CMBS
- No Backup camera.
- No pass thru from the trunk (important for color guard season with my girls).
- Only 265hp but it felt about the same since its a ligther car.
- It did have a 7 speed but shifting was a bit harsh compared to the RL.
- It had a "sports package" but that just added 18" wheels, a different front spoiler, and chrome exhaust tips. Nothing with suspension or engine. It handled about the same as my RL.
- Material quality was about the same but the leather was FAR inferior to the RL giving the cabin a cheap feel.
- Passenger seat had full 8 way adjustments (unlike my 07 RL) but overall the seats were not as comfortable and had manual lumbar for the driver

Believe it or not, at almost $14,000 off msrp, I concluded that the $62k 09 E350 wasn't worth the money and would be a step down from my 07 RL. I honestly don't know how MB sells these cars to anyone at anything close to MSRP. Must just be the badge hypnosis because pound for pound it's way overpriced.

danmm7

iTrader: (1)

Interesting review. I agree 100% with it.
Before i purchased the 2006 RL ... i drove 2005 E500 with 38k miles and 2006 E350 with 39k miles.
The E500 was powerful & solid, yet the 7-speed transmission did NOT Make me happy at all. There was some weird delay in pickup from a stop - every time. Must be throttle by wire setting but it made the car feel very unpleasant in the city. I mentioned this to the dealer and he said that all E500s have this "issue" and that it is Traction control related. He said..."try the E350, it is a lot better".
I drove the 2006 E350. Interior was nice but NOT better than the RL's, in my opinion. Seats were not as great. Noise level was about the same. Ride was "ok" for such a luxury car. Not sporty. Off the line, it did not have the "delay", but the the 7-speed tranny was not smooth at all. Even my wife noticed how jerky the car was in some situation(when i floor it). There was lots of gear shifting & hunting when merging in the freeway, the downshifts were not crisp and on time, the engine was revving a little more than expected between gears....overall, it was NOT smooth at all. Add to this the lack of cool options, poor Navi system, no AWD and the asking price of $27k for Benz with 39k miles .... i said no!! A week later, we bought the RL.

One thing about the E350, at least on paper, the 3.5L Benz engine seems "more fun to drive" than the RL's engine. Good amount of torque at LOW rpm that stays almost flat until 5k rpm. This is very impressive, at least on paper. However, during the test drive, the car did not feel that fun to drive. Not sure if this particular car had engine problems, poor transmission or both.
I am curious if you noticed the extra torque on the Benz or you had the same behind the wheels experience with the 2009 model. Did the E350 "feel" faster than your 2007 RL?

SpicyMikey

No, the E350 RWD did not feel at all faster than my RL. Didn't feel slower though. I was surprised since it only had 265hp, but, when I went home and checked the weight specs it made sense. Plus, that extra gear helps I'm sure. None the less, it was not a refined trans at all. It shifted ok without being under stress. But, if you jumped on it the trans took too long to upshift. When it did shift, it was harsh. Basically felt like a Toyota Corolla. The RL was much better and that's not saying a ton because I think the RL has a bit to be desired. The new TL's (with same engine and trans) shift far better. Must have made tweeks and software changes along the way.

SpicyMikey

Oh yea, road noise was worse on the E350. it had low profile 18" sports wheels. May have made a difference but I still expect more from a $62k car.

23109VC

this makes me so much happier with my recent purchase of an 06 CPO RL!!

we had looked at CPO 07 E350s... I drove one and didn't like it. glad to hear others shared my opinion....

the RL is a tremendous value...

dwest1023

Just confirms what I have found out buy testing various cars. It is very hard to impossible to get a better value then Acura. Saying that, as bad as I hated it, I an now the owner of a new 09 Acura TL. The test drive did it. Awesome sound system( one of the best of have heard, for stock) Smooth like the 06 RL that was turned in. I still miss the 06 RL. Felt like a king when I was driven it. Our 09 Maxima is nice, but it ain't no RL.

vinodc

Spicemikey, I have to strongly disagree with you on some points, but I think overall you have a point. I myself am the owner of a brand new 08 E-350, barely have 4k miles on it.

(if your interested in getting a great deal on an E-class....message me, I have a sales associate who will give you 18k...thats right, EIGHTEEN thousand off, 14k off is not that competitive. Its from Coggin Mercedes in Ft. Peirce)

First off, let me say, yes I do think the olderbody style mercedes(03-09) model was overpriced....but the new 10 model, sticker price was lowered by about 5k. The same argument could be had for the RL, people are getting close to 10k off sticker, sure you get more content, but it could easily be said RL is overpriced as well.

I think you focused on what the E-350 didn't have versus the RL...which i agree, MB charges you for every option....cause quite frankly, they can get away with it, they have a great reputation/and a fairly loyal customer base. I know others want to chime in and knock on there dropped reliability, and I can only speak on behalf of my family(myself, brother, parents, grandparents, uncles).....we have had about 6 ML's....3 S-classes, 5 E-classes, 1 ClK, 2 SL, and S63AMG. NOT a SINGLE car gave us trouble, nothing than routine maintence, during this time, we also owned lexus...acura..infiniti.....ask us which company was BY FAR the most reliable....Mercedes. (I wil admit, the early body ML's had windshield fog issues, but it was a design flaw)

I know the RL is a bargain, yet they sell so little of them....mercedes has sold over a million of the current body style. I dont think overall population buys this car for its "perceieved status symbol". Its just a damn good car!

Now when you mentioned the Sport Package on E-class....it gives you the Massively larger brakes. and let me tell you, the brakes in the E-class are amazing, compared to RL. NO comparison. but other than brakely, mostly asthetics(which i think looks good)

The RL has a solid ride to it, but believe me....the E-class is a TANK. Not a single rattle...no loose door knobs, every part of the car is detailed and well thought out. I think the Rl has a nice ride, but it doesnt have the german type of ride to it(but thats purely a personal choice...after having floaty feeling asian luxury cars...it was a welcomed change for me)

The 7-speed automatic(why acura only has 5 on there flagship is mind boggling)....it takes some time, before it learns the way you drive. I at first though it was harsh too, but that quickly goes away.

I think RL is a greatcar, but quite frankly, Acura HAS to offer more, to compete in this segment. It has no reputation to drive people into the showroom to look at it, its sales figures are obvious. Sure you can say Acura doesn't advertise it enough, but even if they did, its not on par with the E-class.

now if you asked me, after owning an E-class....would you buy an RL...my answer is yes, but i would NEVER trade in my e-class for an RL...two different cars, drive very differently, each has there own con's and pro's. But I think most of you are very big fans of RL, but if you drive the E-class as long as I have, im 99% sure you'll change your opinions on it.

SpicyMikey

Thanks for the viewpoint vinodc. Didn't know the sports package offered larger brakes. I did do a panic stop on my test drive. It stopped well but didn't notice much different than the RL. Hard to measure that without a true controlled environment and both cars on hand. I also agree they are well built. MB went through a rough patch (especially with the E's) back a few years ago but they got past that. Reliability is not something I would make an issue of.

I was telling my brother this morning that $48k was not a deal but $44k ($500+ lease) would be good. I'll take you up on your offer and message you

ssim3

If you get the chance drive a 550 or 500 with airmatic it is a great ride/handling trade off. I am averaging the same mileage in my 500 as I did in the RL. The Command 2.5 is great wish it were easily backwards compatable, but is not.

neuronbob

Thanks for the review, Mikey.

Once again, the RL proves to be the best bang for the buck.

vinodc

Spiceymikey, i just sent you a message response.

Actually let me tell you about an experience I had with mercedes, that I was so impressed and blown away. In 2003, my dad ordered a fully loaded E-class, the works, navi etc etc. When the car finally came in, we were told ahead of time, there was a delay in the navigation units, and they would be retrofitted into the cars, I guess there was some supplier issue, so everyone who ordered a car with navigation, or bought it with dealer that shoulda had navigation was to eventually have the navigation unit put in at the dealer once they arived a few weeks down the road.

what mercedes did, for EVERY customer(thousands)....got a personal call from MB themselves....."sir we've had some glitches, we messed up, were going to make it right" They said, use the car for another 4-5 weeks, come back to the dealership.....we will give you a BRAND NEW CAR(along with the thousands other E-class owners). i was blown away, we all bought the E-class knowing there was delay in navigation unit, but I literally used a mercedes for about 10k miles....gave it back....got one with more options, BRAND NEW... now thats what I call customer service. Our family loved the E-class, my grandpa bought one, as did my uncle.....all 3 of them, each got a brand new E-class. Mercedes went above and beyond, thats why I stay loyal to them.

Blazing GT

Well, I have also been looking at these vehicles at mercedes because i believe the body style is just so gracious looking. With the two cars...I feel to have more status in the E class. The RL is a great car and I love it, Acura MUST give the RL a real name.

The interior of the E class is ok, but for some reason I have yet to sit in an interior which wows me as much as the RL

As far as power, The E350 is faster than the RL. I am 110% sure on that one. It is the AWD and weight of the RL that is killing it.

If i never owned a TL, I would have never owned a RL.

Please Acura, do something with the RL...that can REALLY make it have a name

danmm7

iTrader: (1)

...Vinodc, i am just curious, when you or your family take any of your Mercedes cars to the dealer for service, how do you get treated? Do you always get a NICE loaner car, even when you drop your Benz for 2-3 hours? Are they polite, down to earth, or cocky?

I am asking because in my area (SF Bay Area), i have a couple of friends who own both, Benz and Audi cars ...all priced at $50k+ and they both complain that the local Benz and Audi dealers have very bad (or so-so) customer service and attitude. One issues that bugs them a lot => they don't get a loaner every time. If they insist on one, they get a low end German car (Jetta) or some Toyota as a loaner.
One of the guys has a newer E500 and the last time he left his car for a $1100 service, they gave him a new Camry V6 as a loaner. This was sad. And on top, the attitude they get from the service advisors is not friendly either, 80% of the time.
Not saying that all Benz dealers do this but the two people i talk to are not happy at all.
They said even worse things about the Audi dealer.


On the other hand...we have 2 Acuras in my family (TSX & RL) and every time i visit the dealer, even for a quick fluid change, i am offered a NEW model, comparable size, fully loaded Acura vehicle. The "worst", smallest car we've been offered in exchange for our 04 TSX was a 2009 TSX - once. We usually get a TL or MDX. No questions asked, no need to fill the tank, no need to worry about miles, scratches, etc. This has been our experience in two different Acura dealers.

What's your experience?

SpicyMikey

^^ that is one of the other problems for me. My local dealer sucks. Sounds like yours. My brother owned a S and got over charged for service and given cheap Chrysler loaners. He sold it and bought a 750Li. So far he's very happy

ssim3

My car is serviced at Brumos in Jax and they have a whole fleet of Ms. Cs & Es and my sevice advisor has always been friendly and helpful.

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

I also found the E350 to be not competitive to the RL, not saying the RL is the best in it's segment. As for the comments of 'getting used to it' is ridiculous. Why should someone have to get used to harsh shifting? 7,8,9 speeds or not, harsh is still harsh.

The two dealers near me are very arrogant and believe they are doing people a service by allowing them them to purchase a Mercedes. I went next door and bought a Lexus instead and could not be happier.

And for Mercedes being more reliable than a Lexus-come on. You are certainly the exception there and the statement is very difficult to swallow at best. Not a single person I know has had a trouble free Mercedes experience and that would put the count around 14 or so.

They do use higher quality materials vs Acura but then so do Lexus and BMW -Cadillac is a 2nd tier company same as Acura in this regards and need to step up their game.

vinodc, it's nice that you have had so many example and NOT A SINGLE problem which again, a very unheard of and exceptional exception to the ownership experience.

Don't get me wrong, I do not dislike Mercedes and in fact a AMG E55 is most likely going to be my next car (cannot pass up 600+hp with a Kleeman III kit). But I am also down to earth with my expectations and believe my tools will be getting a pretty good workout with the car over basic items such as HVAC, interior misc, etc. As it will not be my daily driver also don't mind the crappy GPS unit Mercedes places in their cars either. Vroom vroom.

SpicyMikey

I'm not willing to argue its the best car in it's segment. However, I'd definitely argue it's the best value in its segment.

When I saw the E350 could be had for $14k+ under MSRP, I thought there might be a momentary exception to that claim. But alas, it was not true. IMO, the RL still reigns as the best value even with the current deals on the E350. There's some dealers evidently willing to sell the E350 for several thousand below invoice (plus the 10k). That may change the equation again since MB is also subsidizing the Money factor on leases. An E350 at 17k below MSRP with a 3.5% interest is awful tempting even without the refinement of the RL. That's a lease around $500 out the door. If my local dealer wasn't so bad, I think it would be easier. Unfortunately, the dealer experience is an important factor. My Acura dealer is close and also very good. One of the reasons I keep buying Acura's.

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

Agree, with current RL pricing the buyer does walk away (drive away ) with a lot of car for the money.

vinodc

470hpgs400, I think you have mistaken my "getting used to it" comment. the e-class with its 7-speed transmissions, at first, learns the way you drive, within 2k miles, i have never felt those "harsh" shifting. And its a 7-speed, compared to the 5 in the RL, people dont know how a 7-speed drives vs a 5, and if you think any 7-speed is completely smooth, ur gravely mistaking. Go drive a 7 series, s-class, and tell how smooth any 7-speed transmission is.

Now with your comment on us not having problems with the cars, and "hard to swallow"....thats your opinion. We have kept our cars on an average of 6-7yrs, NOT ONCE, amongst my own or brother, or parents, have we had any major component go wrong. we've had maybe a bulb or two go out, did routine work, but nothing of any sorts. We dont abuse our cars, we put about 10-12k miles a year, and they performed solidly. We replaced battery every 4-5yrs, always did the suggested mb-maintence, our dealer was great at taking care of our cars. maybe we just got lucky, but i doubt it.

we dont have breaking door knobs, propeller shaft problems, rear differntial probs, malfunctioning door handles...nothing of this sort.

I have seen the arrogant mb, bmw(especially), audi, even lexus(why i no longer give them businesss). but that varies from place to place, and i think it would be wrong to sterotype everydealer. We have an excellent relationship with our MB dealer, so they take care of us.

now as to my previous Gs430 ive owned....rattles...rattles....replaced levinson radio unit...rattles...(maybe it was just my car...but you get my point, it varys car to car)

previous TL....after TWO failing transmissions, and knowing the 3rd was on the way, we gave that junk away(nice charity writeoff).

And withour infiniti Q45...one electricial issue after the other....infiniti bought it back.

as you can see, no car company has been perfect....but to MY FAMILY, mercedes has been rock solid, maybe we are lucky.....but i'll take it. Until MB wrongs me, ill stick with them.

vinodc

danmm7,

i hear everything your saying, and I agree with you to an extent. I seriously believe it is dealer to dealer. One of the reasons I never bought an Audi, was because teh dealership, NEVER gave loaners!! and that wasn't acceptable to me.

I think mb/bmw dealers sometime get a bad reptuation, but it really depends on dealer to dealer. I know some mb/bmw dealers locally, if I did'nt buy from them, they wont provide a loaner to me. In ann arbor MI, the lexus dealership is HORRIBLE at providing loaners, and want to nickle and dime you for every little thing that goes wrong, never offer any sort of good will. After buying 2 cars from them, we had enough.

the benz dealer, was exceptional to us, in the past, when something had wrong with my lexus, it was like hell getting them to agree to fix it, and i always fretted going in for service. with my MB dealer, I usually just call them up, they SEND A CAR to my house or hospital, and swap the car from me, service it, and bring it back. If i call them, and even just when my signal light bulb was blown, they brought me a loaner. But I usually call ahead, to set up for loaner, so ive never been denied, but when i've gone to the dealer on a whim, to get an oil change, they dont always have the extra loaner cars, and I dont blame them for it. They always said, doc, if you made an appointment, we guarantee you a MB to use. They use mostly, E-class, C-class, R-class, and M-class as loaners, so ive never recieved non-mb cars.

My particular dealer....I guess they do this, to differentiate between other mb/bmw dealers......if you lost your key/fob....they REPLACE it for FREE. up to 2 times. when we all complained that we didn't want our cars run through the automated car wash....when they redesigned the dealership. Now all the cars are manually washed, same guy for the past 5yrs, use genuine MB soap, no swirl marks nothing. They will wash your car, even if you bring it just for the wash, no questions asked. I always tip the guy 10bucks, because he does a thorough job on the car, he really takes care of the brake dust on wheels.

Now you see, the level of service I get at my MB-dealer, probably isn't there at every dealer, and quite frankly, they treat us so well, i would never go anywhere else! It depends on every single dealer....but the owner of this mercedes benz dealership, is around so often, he knows his customers on a personal level. And they have a massive sign, in the service department on teh owners contact info, general manager, and service manager. So they really do mean it, when they take care of there customers.

FredS

My wife and I use the nav in our 07 RL alot. Our real estate agent was driving us around looking at homes. She has a E350. When we left her, I asked my wife did you notice her nav system and how it worked. We looked at each other and said the Germans have a long way to go with electronics. I would not own a MB for just that and the insult of having to pay for maintenance. Check and see what an oil change cost on a MB or a BMW. My dealer charges $29.

SpicyMikey

^^ I thought it was just my local MB dealer but maybe it's typical. They used to charge my brother close to $200 for an oil change, x point inspection, and wheel rotation for his S. Is that the experience of others?

vladfrenkel

Well, I change an oil, "on BMW dealership", every 15K miles - according to BMW schedule (I do it myself every five, but this is different topic, I believe 15K mi is too much). 4 years oil changes are free, as well as an entire maintenance.