I don't have a good floor jack or stands. I've just been using ramps for all my work thus far, and want to keep it that way if possible. So the obvious question is, can I bleed the brakes without taking off the wheels? Has anyone tried this, and if so, can you tell me if I should try it, or if it would be best to just pay for the jack/stands, and all that?

Second question is about brake fluid. The service manual (link below) says to use Acura Dot3. I used all Acura fluids on the differential/tranny, and it ended up costing me $200, so I'd prefer to not throw any more money away if it isn't necessary. I already have two pints of Dot3, can I use them?

http://www.acuralegendwiki.org/index...nuals_And_TSBs

 

wait, why do you want to bleed the brakes?
are you draining and filling the brake fluid?

as long as your two pints of dot3 isnt opened, you can use it.
brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water from the air.

jack stands will make your job a lot easier.
the correct tools make everything easy

 

I'd rather chew on nails than try to bleed brakes with the wheels on.

There was a specific pattern for bleeding them on my CL, I'm not sure if it's similar on the RL but it may be worth looking into.

My last , change out the brake lines for braided steel brake lines while you're at it. Well worth it for any application IMO.

 

I wouldnt try with the wheels on either.
I like lots of room to work

 

Buy the stands and floor jack, they aren't that expensive and will last a very long time, every DIYer should have them. Don't think there is much clearance to get at the valve if you don't remove the wheel. You also can't do any brake work without removing g the wheel.

You don't need to use honda fluid, but I would and do use it, it's $6 a bottle. Make sure your car has had the brake fluid recall master cylinder service performed. If it hasn't, non honda fluid could damage the seals.

 

^the Honda brake fluid is DOT3. any brand of fluid is comparable as long as it's DOT3.

DOT5 is silicone based and WILL EAT SEALS.

 

The recall does not distinguish between dot levels.

Recall ID # 71025 - SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:FOUNDATION COMPONENTS:MASTER CYLINDER Hide Details
Recall Date:
OCT 22, 2010
Model Affected:
2005 Acura RL
Summary:
HONDA IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2005-2007 ODYSSEY AND ACURA RL VEHICLES. BRAKE FLUID CONTAINING POLYMERS IS USED THAT ACTS AS A LUBRICANT FOR CERTAIN BRAKE SYSTEM COMPONENTS. IF REPLACEMENT BRAKE FLUID IS USED THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN SUCH POLYMERS, OR THAT CONTAINS ONLY SMALL AMOUNTS, A PART OF THE RUBBER SEAL LOCATED AT THE REAR OF THE BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER MAY BECOME DRY, AND THE SEAL MAY CURL DURING MOVEMENT OF THE PISTON. IF THIS OCCURS, A SMALL AMOUNT OF BRAKE FLUID COULD SLOWLY LEAK FROM THE SEAL INTO THE BRAKE BOOSTER.
Consequences:
A LEAK OF BRAKE FLUID COULD LEAD TO A CHANGE IN BRAKE PEDAL FEEL AND OVERTIME A DEGRADATION IN BRAKING PERFORMANCE INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER SEAL FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING DECEMBER 2010. OWNERS MAY CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009.
Potential Units Affected:
471820
Notes:
HONDA (AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.)


Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2005/...#ixzz3ArASrAMI

 

I tried to bleed them with the wheels on recently. The first one was enough to convince me how stupid I was for trying. Taking the wheels off made the job much easier. My fluid had probably never been changed (100k miles) if was very dark in color. I bought a large quart sized bottle from the local car parts store and used almost all of it. When you do it be very sure not to spill a drop on your paint. It will leave a mark if not cleaned up immediately.

 

Get some small jack stands and a low profile floor jack. I have big old steel jack and it won't fit underneath either one of my cars. I need to drive up onto 2x8s to get to the front or back jacking point. Also, I have some heavy duty jack stands and at the lowest height, they are a bit too high.

 

Shoot. I just opened the second quart because I was too lazy to go grab the one that was already opened. (I've been suctioning, and adding new fluid to my F150, which really also needs bled). The bottles are only a couple weeks old, so they should be fine though I suspect.

There is a clear consensus to take the wheels off. Thanks, guys, that was the motivation I needed to get the right tools--I have to spend a little more to be able to do both vehicles though. I heard I needed at least a 2.5 ton jack for the truck, so that's kinda why I haven't bit the bullet yet...

 

Harbor Freight Tools. Great prices in jacks. Get the aluminum one. It's half the weight.

 

I'm not even sure how you would bleed the front calipers since the valve is on the back side of the caliper.... I concur with others, invest in a good set of jack stands and a proper jack.

 

They don't last. Had one get stuck in the up position on me, and then it literally fell apart on me. It was one of the low profile racing jacks, I think it was like $60.

 

I think that's exactly the one I have. So far so good but I'd hate it to failed in the up position. I don't use it that often though. Maybe it will last long enough for me.

 

Having lost a close family friend to a failed jack my would be to spend some money and get a good jack. Not worth risking your life to save $100.

And always use jack stands.

 

Whoa, that is horrible. Thanks for the reminder. Maybe I should spend more than $70 on the jack, even though I shouldn't ever be under the vehicle without it being on stands.

That's why I am more comfortable working on my truck though. If it falls, there is plenty room for me to lay flat and slide out. If my car falls it would squish me like a grape.

 

Nasty job that requires a buddy. Why would you want to tackle this? If your buddy fucks up and pumps too many times you will be stuck with a car full of bubbly brake fluid.
How much are you saving?

 

Nasty job? It's as easy as changing your oil and can be done solo very easily with a motive power bleeder.


Jack, stands and the power bleeder will all pay for themselves in two bleeds. I usually bleed my brakes once every two years, or if I feel the pedal softening a little sooner. I do it for all my cars. It's good practice to bleed and get even the tiniest of air bubbles out.

Others may have a different view, but working on my own car instead of paying others gives me satisfaction and helps me learn about how my car works. A few years ago, I couldn't do more than change oil, since the I've learned how to do just about anything, or at least given me the confidence to try.

 

Well, I got a 3 ton floor jack and stands at Harbor Freight. Got the car up, front wheels off, and as soon as I turned the left bleeder valve--snap! Had to remove the caliper, and will take it to friend's tomorrow to drill and tap. A new caliper is over $200 and special order, or probably double that at the dealer. So now my brake line is all dripping into a

 

[dangit, hit submit on accident, can't edit, so finishing previous post...]

So now my brake line has no caliper, and is just dripping into a pan. My friend said that is fine. I thought you weren't supposed to let it run dry. I'll ask him how I'm supposed to refill it tomorrow. Things are not going according to plan to say the least.

 

Yikes, never heard of that before, sorry to hear. Try using a stick or bar leveraged against the seat to push in your brake pedal about an inch or so, that should stop the dripping. Put a towel on the end of the bar touching the seat so it doesn't do damage.

 

Guys, I had to order a whole new caliper just because of a darn rusted out bleeder valve screw. Calipers from the dealer are $580 each. I am supposed to pickup a remanufactured one today for $200, which I suppose I should be thankful for, but I am not very happy about the entire situation.

This was supposed to be an easy job, and it has turned into a big PIA. Frankly, I guess I would not recommend changing the brake fluid yourself unless you are a pro. I wish I would've paid for someone else to do it. Of course, they could've come back and charged me for a new caliper anyways, but at least I wouldn't feel so stresses about it.

So now I have all the fluid drained out of my front left line, I have to i stall a new caliper--which I totally was not prepared to do--and I have all sorts of worries that I'm going to mess something else up. To make things more stressful, my car is stuck up on jack stands the whole time, and I cannot close my garage door.

I'm going to try and convince my uncle to come and take over because this has zapped all my newly found auto mechanic enjoyment.

 

why were you bleeding them in the first place?

 

Replacing a caliper is not hard, don't worry, take a breath and you'll be fine.. There are two big bolts in the back of the caliper, I'd suggest using a breaker bar to loosen them. The only other thing to do is remove the hard brake line going into the caliper, easy removal. Caliper will come right off. That's it, other than removing brake pads first. Trust me, this isn't hard and you will be an instant brake expert when you are done.

Install is the reverse. Then bleed the brakes, all four if I were you.

Btw, you don't want to let all of the fluid drain out of the reservoir so make sure you keep refilling it. I told you how to stop the leaking in an earlier post.

where are you located, maybe someone on the board is local to you and could help out, I would. Judging by your screen name, I'd say Indy.

 

Okay, I got it done with no problem after I put the new caliper on. I did let all the fluid drain out of the front left, but it was easy to pump new fluid in, and I just kept adding fluid and pumping brakes until no more airs bubbles came out. All the other bleeder valves looked brand new, and they all had a different rubber cover than the front left. So I think it had been a problem for a long time, and even if I paid to have my brakes bled they would've tried to charge me for a new caliper (or cheated and left it as-is, because it was completely rusted out).

So how do I feel now about it? Not bad at all, it needed done one way or the other. My biggest mistake really was not pulling all the way into the garage before lifting the car up, which made the time waiting on the parts very stressful. I think I still saved up to $500 off of taking to the shop (or at least off of taking it to the dealer).

Big take-away for someone like me who is new to mechanics: Things will break and/or need replaced, so always be prepared to wait a few days or more for parts (especially if it is a luxury car). Also, brakes aren't that hard to work on really...but wheels are heavy to put back on!

 

Because Acura recommends changing brake fluid every 30k miles, and I'm at 115k without any records of a fluid change. I think the recommendation is due to it coming with Dot4 fluid, which doesn't last as long. I put Dot3 in, which I believe can go 100k miles. All oils break down with time and heat, and get contaminated with things like rust. The reason I did it personally, even though it was running fine, is because I want to keep my car for another 100k miles at least.

 

I hate taking it to other people for service because I'm never sure how straight they are. Situations like this are exactly why I like to have the car fully in the garage if I can I was recently working on my buddy's '02 Civic, replacing pads and rotors. I was a straightforward job until I noticed his caliper slide pin was seized on the passenger side, which caused uneven pad wear.


He agree to replace the whole caliper bracket instead of messing around with the old one, but his car was hanging on jackstands in my garage for almost 2 days while the part came in It's nice to be able to close the door in a sitation like that!

 

I've now bled the breaks on my truck, and an older Honda, and I have a couple tips to avoid breaking bleeder valves. First of all, be aware how fragile these hollow screws are, and that breaking one most likely means replacing the entire caliper. If moderate twisting does not move the valve, then stop.

Spray the base of the screw with penetrating oil. Use a wire brush to remove rust/grime from the base of the screw to allow more penetrating oil in. You can try tapping the tip of the valve with a hammer. Try tightening, wiggling, and lightly hammer tapping the socket wrench. I'm told a blow torch works great, but I never had one to try.

None of those things worked for me, so out of desperation I tried using Breakfree CLP, which is an old military formula gun oil (with cleaner). The CLP is very slick, and allowed me to TIGHTEN the screw about an 1/8th of a turn instantly. At that point I could always loosen the screw with only moderate pressure. It happened this way three times in a row, so I'm certain it wasn't luck. CLP is great stuff, and maybe this is why they call it Breakfree! I never heard of mechanics using it, but maybe they should consider it.

 

I realize its hindsight, but next time invest in a fluid sucker.