wstr75

Sounds like Acura is designing some neat stuff including a 7-Series competitor. From today's Temple of VTEC news clips:

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=755884

lindros2

Sounds like "me too" and a bit too late.

F-R platforms are sexy now, but in 8-10 years, alternative fuel sources will be numero uno.

They should have delivered this 5 years ago. Now Infiniti (and even the resurgent Cadillac) is/are on the 2nd generation of F-R premium cars. This gives them a lot of time to test new power sources.

xenonhid

They better do something after the 09 RL and 09 TSX monstrocities.

SpicyMikey

It's never too late. They can't keep doing FF in a premium brand. At least go to SHAWD. The new TSX is not upscaled enough with it's 4cyl FF, and the rumor I read recently is that the new TL with come standard with FWD and SHAWD option. That's a bad move. IMO

neuronbob

Waitaminute. TL: SHAWD + J37 + 6MT= (looks pending) Whuchusmokin?

SpicyMikey

Wouldn't you like to know.......

http://www.leftlanenews.com/details-...-acura-tl.html

krio

the best info is that Acura is coming officially to Europe in 2011 following Infiniti...
The diesel engine was a signal that Honda was already looking to the euroepa market for their luxury brand.
But I can't understand how they will sell the same car, Legend and RL, TSX and european Accord, on the same market.
Boh...

SpicyMikey

I agree. That's why I assume they won't. Those vehicles will just shift to the Acura badge. There's also some rumors the S2000 is going to be upscaled, dropped from Honda, and moved to Acura. It's a shell game

dwboston

2015 for the 7-series competitor? Really??!! That's a lifetime from now. Why even bother? The Lexus LS, 7-series, and MB S-Class will all be overhauled again by the time Acura gets its first attempt at a flagship out. That's unbelievable. The '09 TL better be a hit or there won't be anyone left to care about the NSX, the next RL, or the "7-series competitor". Honda & Acura are getting passed thanks to their passivity and inability to give the customers in this segment what they clearly want.

Mike_TX

Exactly my thoughts. And here comes Infiniti with a 7-speed auto transmission, available 400hp V-8 and other goodies, all to be inserted in a new M perhaps as soon as next year. A killer Jaguar XF, a redesigned E-class on the way, even a V-8 6-speed AT Hyundai Genesis for those who are more frugal.

I'm not feelin' real good about a next-gen RL to replace my LS ...

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krio

Mike, if I'm right, they told about the 2015 for the RWD...
The Audi A8 is only AWD, and nobody in Audi is worried about the fact that the Audi A4, TT, A3, A5, A6 are FWD (understeer? nobody in normal life fell it).
The RL is sold only AWD, biased in the future as the Audi to the rear more than to the front, and I don't think it will be SO important the new RWD.
The RWD is more urgent, maybe, for the next base TL without the AWD, or a new coupe' derived from the TSX or TL, or RSX...
The question is: we'll get a V8 in 2011 for the RL?
If yes, well, everithing will be OK.
Ok for the RL, and OK for the TL too (more margin in growth of power), following till a future TSX Type-s...

SpicyMikey

Me too Mike. How can someone plan out a product line 7 years in the future? There are so many variables it seems silly. 3 -4 years seems max for planning in this industry.

That's why that particular statement about 2015 must be total BS. Rumors aren't reliable when we're talking about 3 months from now. A statement like that is really almost meaningless I suppose.

jftjr

If the Genesis gets the ride down (i.e., if it doesn't float like a Buick, which is my main concern) then I just can't see buying anything else when my lease expires in March '09.

I sure as hell am not going to buy an RL Beaker Edition.... ugh.

Mike_TX

What I was referring to was not having a 7-series competitor until 2015. That's a little late to enter the market, IMO.

As for RWD, I'm one of those who wants it more than I want AWD. I liked my SH-AWD RL fine, but I know it would have been a little lighter, a little snappier performance-wise, a little cheaper, and a little more fuel-efficient if it had been RWD. And to use your terms, in real life, I don't need the extra handling SH-AWD provides.

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lindros2

I dunno Bob.

Will they actually have a 6MT on the AWD model? And/or will they offer a 6AT?

If I were in the market for a [2009] TL, I'd purchase a G35 or Cadillac CTS before the TL, regardless of its looks.

lindros2

I would invite you to drive the new A4. Audi recognized the error in its ways and really overhauled the platform and the quattro system (now "Quattro V" as in 5th gen). Previously it was shared with the Passat in the "B/C platform", but that split as of the current-gen Passat.

In any case, yes, Audis are naturally FWD cars (except the R8). But for some reason I feel like they are better balanced than Acura, and much of that has to do with all of the connected systems in the car.

VOdoc

Ahem. Just like the US military, we are fighting the last war.

Just got back from a few days in Toronto. Per yesterday's "Toronto Globe and Mail", Acura is the #3 lux brand in Canada behind BMW and Lexus. MB and Infiniti trail.

On Canadian highways, there are a few smallish SUVs, hardly any pickups, and mostly sensible sedans. No Cadillacs or Hummers whatsoever. That may have to do with the fact that regular gas is now $1.20 a liter (almost $5 a gallon).

That's our future. Anybody who doesn't believe it is welcome to have a V-8.

krio

The new BMW7 will get the X-drive system, when before, the RWD for BMW was the LAW.
Yes, I remember this winter the funnies BMW 5 or 3 series RWD in the snow, slowly, slowly going down... and boom! ops... against the fence.
For that reason I prefer my MDX to my TL, and if I had to choose betw. TL RWD and AWD, I'd take the second one. (If I'll get a coupe', I agree, only RWD)
The Mercedes S in Europe now are sold more 4matic than RWD.
THE fact is that we would see in the Acura lineup a based RWD chassis with the optional AWD. True.
But, coming back to the thread, what about the 2011 RL?? Maybe, against the bad roumors, THIS model will be in fact the new real competitor for Lexus LS and BMW7?

krio

I was an owner of an A4 quattro, but the Sh-Awd of the MDX is even better, like a train on the rails. great.
What Audi recognized? They changed the % between front and rear, to a rear oriented 40/60, from the RS4 on, and modernized this year the AWD system, more like to our Sh-AWD. That's all.
No RWD chassis on the way, except the R8.
The new A4 recived not good test drives from many european magazines, the old problems of heavy nose and chassis are there.
But who really cares?
It's the best selling sedan in German and Italy, in the 2.0TDI version FWD...

dwest1023

+1. Have you seen the new 09 Nissan Maxima?? If the test drive goes well, I am leaning in that direction, depending on what the Jag XF is selling for at the time.
I am thinking the Genesis is going to be a floater like the Toyota Avalon
There will be some nice choices out there and sad to said Acura will not be one of them for me. I will keep my 06 Tsx, because I do not like the 09. All I have to say is, the new TL better be stunning.

123456SPEED

Side note-
I was surprised a few weeks ago to see info on the Genesis coupe, I had always only heard talk about a sedan. Looks interesting, lots of features at a cheaper price, but I never fantasized about owning a Hyundai.

SpicyMikey

Yea, looks good (especially the price). But we all operate under the same laws of economics. Labor costs vary by region, but other costs (material, marketing, distribution, etc.) are relatively the same. If the car is THAT much cheaper, then there's got to be a good reason. Hyundai doesn't have a magic wand.

Where are they going to build the Genesis? That's an interesting question for me.

jftjr

My understanding is that it will be built in Korea.

The labor is cheaper, sure... but I think they're pricing it low to get a foothold in this market. Infiniti did the same thing. Plus, they're not really breaking new ground -- all the features in that car have been on the market for 4 or 5 years now, so the R&D wasn't as high.

Look for the later iterations of the Genesis to be at a higher price point.

Mike_TX

Don't underestimate that labor thing - it's a HUGE part of the cost of a car ... I've heard as much as 50%, but that's probably in U.S. union markets.

In any case, they could conceivably build the same car as the Japanese for a 25% less in Korea, just due to wages and fringe benefits savings.

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static808

What is really annoying is the pace at Acura. These guys move slower than a snail. Everybody will pass them by. I am really starting to think that Acura will always be an afterthought for Honda.

Look at all the small refreshes year to year by BMW, Mercedes and even Infiniti...Its mindboggling that these sloths take soo much time to put something out.

My 2cents: the new TSX isn't a bad ride but if it had two engine choices, they would have boosted sales out of the gate. Another sharp stick in the eye for the Acura salesman...having to sell only a 4banger....for $32k

GoHawks

I said from day 1 that the S2000 should have been offered as an Acura model!

TampaRLX-SH

The worldwide perception of the Honda brand is: efficient, well built and relatively inexpensive vehicles. This has been one of the reasons why the Honda LEGEND has issues in global markets (where V8 and size mean less than it does in North America). People do not expect a premium vehicle and price from Honda.

This has led to Honda's plan to export the Acura brand globally, as is Lexus and Infinity. It will allow a premium badge for premium vehicles without the budget label. In markets where the Honda LEGEND currently exhists, it will someday be the Acura RL. The S2000 is also slated for this brand shift.

Where this gets sticky is with the brand launch aligned with new model introduction. Introducing a same GEN Acura RL where the same GEN LEGEND already exists is sticky...especially if they ask more money for it. So the next GEN RL will likley be the end of the Honda LEGEND, but the global birth of the RL.

There are expectations to export the US Accord globally and perhaps the TSX will also make a break from the Honda badge as well. That seems awkward to me as the two cars do not seem similar enough to continue as the same name.

In short, as Spicy Mikey already said...it is a shell game.

SpicyMikey

I agree. It doesn't fit in the Honda lineup at all (mainly for the reasons Tampa stated). Not sure what they are thinking wth that one.

neuronbob

X 10E42

I mean, DUH! That would've brought people into the showrooms.

BTW, the S. Honda hit it out of the park with that car. Wish they could do same with Acura.

TSX69

Please forgive me if I have some of my facts mixed up but I have not really studied Honda history that much: I thought that the S2000 was created by 2 people who wanted it to be a flagship for what Honda stood for (fun, sporty cars) not unlike what the NSX meant for Acura. Unfortunately, 1 of them died which signaled the change to more sedate pedestrian cars & then the other left the company & got to do that special version of the S2000 before he left.

I always thought that the RSX should have been a Honda & the S2000 an Acura but after reading about the above, I kinda understood the situation. However, knowing how Honda likes to share things & spread the costs, I am amazed that after all these years they have not made an Acura version of the S2000. A coupe roadster, even with low sales, would have been a nice addition to the Acura brand. 2 RWD coupes could have helped silence the skeptics some ...