mrdeeno

i beg to differ, and so do many others.

Here is just one of many reviews I've found where the M is rated better than the RL in most categories:

http://www.autoweb.com/content/share...cle_id_int/773

Here's a quote from this ONE article:
But let's not mag-race (or mag-compare)...MY PERSONAL opinions:

The wood trim I don't like which is why I got the 45 sport with aluminum trim. But I think the MB CLS has the same "matte" style wood trim. this is all personal preference but some like it better than the super-glossy RL wood trim. I personally like the RL wood trim better than the M wood trim, but I like the M REAL aluminum better than the RL wood.

I like the acura interior design better, but the acura materials and fit/finish are NOT superior in anyway, just the layout and design which are only marginally better. I find the materials in the M better than the RL, and after living with the M for 3 months now, no complaints with the ergonomics which I rate the same for both (short test drive experience in the RL though). I test drove both 3 times each before purchasing and there was a constant rattle somewhere in the back of the RL everytime. My M hasn't had any rattles or any problems whatsoever...cold weather, hot weather, it's TIGHT.

the SH-AWD is great, but as for your "carbon fiber" driveshaft...that's because the RL is already so heavy that this was a weight reducing measure more than anything. They could've gone with any other "cheaper" material for the driveshaft and it would NOT have made any remarkable difference in the awd performance except for being heavier.

I have to give props to the RL for it's SH-AWD, which is a superior system than any other awd system out there...but it's handling still isn't the best in this class (M35/45 sport and 5-series are)...basically the RL is still a FWD based car (front heavy) and they cheaped out on tires and wheels as usual (c'mon...17" standard, 18" optional? I got 19" rims STANDARD!!). and dont' get me started on Acura braking performance...always near the bottom of the pack for some reason. Could be the tires, but could be for other reasons.

And the final nail in the coffin for me...NO FREAKIN' V8!!! 300hp 3.5L v6 is great and all, but after all the test drives, I got more excitement out of my CL-S with only 260hp. The extra hp and torque of the RL is all eaten up by the weight and AWD system. I remember i was on an on-ramp at 40ish MPH and wanted to test the merging acceleration...I floored it and the engine speed revved up...then the car slowly picked up speed and I was at 80ish MPH. With the M45, I get pinned to my seat when I try this move.

so for all your bragging of the RL's "sophistication on the drivetrain and suspension", which are individually commendable developments, together they only give the RL what it needs to compete in this class of cars, not enough to get it ahead. These developments aren't developments to make it a better competing car, these developments are to "bandage" the problems that prevented this car from competing at all in this class: being a FWD based car.

Imagine if they had designed the RL from the ground up on a RWD based platform and implemented a rwd form of SH-AWD, with better wheels/tires/brakes...even with the 300hp v6, they'd have a BEAST on their hands.

Motown2006RL

The comparison was between the M35x and the RL. Equally equipped both just a touch over $50k. And no the aluminum trim is not available on the 35, just the contact paper. Your car is RWD only and $6-7k more. Apples with oranges at that point really.
As for the engineering:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1848

dseag2

Apples to oranges is right. There is no comparison between the M and RL in my book, and I would never go back.

And let's face it... the rear-end styling of the M is no more of a "horror" than the front-end styling of the RL. And as for engineering, I've enjoyed 9 months and 10,000 trouble-free miles in my M. I had 4 recalls in my RL during the 5 months and 5,000 miles I owned it. With that in mind, I don't see where you have much of an argument.

1HOT NSX

So, which one did you buy? It's been two months since your original post so I thought I'd ask.

DCRL

Not too many months after I bought my RL, the new M debuted and I found all the "enthusiasts" raving about its big V-8 and what a sweet ride it was. So I marched myself down to an Infiniti dealer to try an AWD model out. Totally unimpressed. To me, the cabin looked cheap in all the variations the dealer offered and the cabin noise, styling, so-so nav, etc. told me I'd made the right choice with the RL. But to be certain, I tried out several M's, and went to more than one Infiniti dealer. The end result was that I was even more content with my RL.

But people have different tastes, obviously. While two friends of mine (one here and another in Baltimore) opted for a TL and an RL, a third friend bought the M45 and began singing its praises to me. Soon, however, he was complaining instead. The driver's seat had problems. The sunroof had problems. Stopping to alter his course with the nav system became a hassle. And his dealer's service was not the fabled "Infiniti model" he'd heard so much about. (He has been at his dealer more times than he and I can remember.)

I, on the other hand, have had zero problems. And those RL "recalls" mentioned by someone previously are nothing more than tech service bulletins. I've had them applied painlessly, usually while having my oil changed. All resulted in subtle but welcome improvements in my driving experience, which I found exemplary to begin with.

But I am glad that there are highly satisfied M owners. But I just want some of them to know, I've driven several M's and vastly prefer the RL. It is (again, in my opinion) a far better choice for me and the interests I have in driving a premium automobile.

Nonetheless, I respect those who prefer other transportation, be it American made, German, or simply from a different Japanese manufacturer. I can only hope that everyone is as happy with their choice as I am with mine.

Because every time I get behind the wheel of my RL, I pretty damned ecstatic!

mrdeeno

Yes, i have seen those pics.

But seriously...does this really propel the RL to the head of the pack in driving dynamics or safety?

Throw snow/ice in there and the AWD is just as safe as any other top competitor with AWD. The "SH" part doesn't figure into this equation in these conditions compared with Audi's, BMW's, Infiniti's, or MB's systems.

The "SH" part only applies when the road conditions are good. But again, does all this "high tech sophisticated" technology propel the RL to the top of the class? No, it merely makes a front heavy car perform competitively with other models in this class.

Don't get me wrong, If I settled for a v6 rather than a v8, I'd get the RL, but I'm still not convinced that the Acura is all that much better quality-wise than the M35x. I just like the design/layout of the Acura better.

catsailr

Coming on this board and saying the M35 is better than the RL is like a Methodist going to a Baptist Church and telling them Methodism is the best.

Motown2006RL

Amen.

dseag2

In my case, it would be like a Methodist who used to be a Baptist going to a Baptist church and telling them Methodism is better. I've owned both.

1HOT NSX

We all make mistakes. You made the mistake of buying the wrong car - many people do. Now you have rectified that mistake and you are happy with your M - I'm glad you found what you like.

msu79gt82

Why would anyone post a serious RL Problem in an RL vs. M thread anyway? The dialog that followed was just more of the same; "my car is better than your car crap" It is great that most RL owners love their car and that most M owners love their car - they cost enough.

Facts - the M continues to outsell the RL by a longshot and is selling at a higher percentage of MSRP - those are facts. Hence more people want the M.

jhr3uva90

Fact: the Infiniti M product line consists of 3 different models. The Acura RL product line consists of one. It makes perfectly good sense for the M to outsell the RL as a result. Also, the RL is AWD-only and automatic-transmission-only, which limits its appeal and makes it more of a niche product. Unit sales are not a reflection of either car's quality. If that were the case, then the Lexus GS must be vastly superior since it is outselling the Acura and the Infiniti.

And regarding one car selling at a higher percentage of MSRP, could you please show us some sources? Thanks.

hondamore

Firstly, nobody knows if the situation discribed by sanderson3 was a "serious problem" or simply the steering wheel lock needing to be wiggled or a new battery being needed in the key fob.
Secondly, sales numbers are in no way indicative of the quality of an automobile. If so, then I guess the Chevy Cavalier is a better car than the Ferrari Enzo or Bentley Continental. Acura sold all the RL's that they expected to and did so profitably. Car companies that have to offer several different versions of their cars to boost sales do so at an enormous cost that eats away the profits. Don't forget that Nissan was nearly bankrupt not that long ago and don't forget that Honda has posted sales gains and increased profits for a very long time.
By the way, the Cavalier is outselling your M by a longshot, maybe you should go troll the Chevy sites as well.

jrock65

Does the frontal shot of the 2007 ES350 remind you of anything?

http://www.carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=14998&page=11

jrock65

.

mrdeeno

uh, we're talking about in a certain "price class" here. comparing cars outside of price classes to argue your point is assinine at best.

and please look up the figures for profitability per car sold. Nissan/Infiniti are more profitable per car than Honda/Acura, and for that fact, more profitable than even toyota per car.

the fact that honda has been profitable for longer doesnt' mean jack...past results are not an indication of future (or current) performance. Otherwise the big 3 would rule the world by now.

And if offering more versions of a car makes it more costly, BUT makes it more desirable AND boosts sales which still lead to more profit, then that's a DISADVANTAGE to honda/acura.

hondamore

Ok, the BMW's and Mercedes in the M's price class are outselling the M and by your logic are much better cars - why aren't you driving one of them??? The only asinine thing around here are the Infiniti trolls.

mrdeeno

i'm not driving one of them because of reliability.

But i admit...more people want the BMW and MB...where oh where did I or anyone else say they were better cars becasue they sold more? hmmm



and infiniti troll?

uhhh...
join date: Jan. 2001
posts: 1849


troll?

mrdeeno

this is what msu79gt82 said:


This is what hondamore said:
i don't remember anyone except HONDAMORE mentioning sales number being indicative of quality.

But he's right. More caveliers sold than bently's...which makes perfect sense. More people can afford a cavalier than a bently, so more people would rather buy the cavalier than the bently. I sure as hell wouldn't want to buy a car I can't afford.

1HOT NSX

A bad copy of the RL. It still looks like a Camry.

msu79gt82

Who said anything about quality and/or superiority?

msu79gt82

Regardless, my POINT was why post a question about a real or potential problem in a vehicle comparison thread? It is off topic to the thread and resulted in a discussion NOT pertinent to the question!

msu79gt82

You talking to me?

I joined in March 2001 (and have owned 3 Acuras)
I traded an '01 Acura MDX for an '04 Acura MDX that I still own.
I used to own an '02 Acura TL-S
I am very much interested in the future RDX and MDX and any other Acura that peaks my interest and curiosity.

Infiniti troll I thought acurazine was a home for Acura owners

mrdeeno

i guess i better split..

dseag2

Personally, I will post in any forum I want to... whether I currently own the brand or not. Reason being, I may buy one at any time so I want to keep updated on new developments. I'm also a previous Acura owner, having owned a '99 TL, '04 TL and '05 RL before moving to Infiniti. My '01 and '03 models were Lexuses so I will continue to post in that forum as well.

Calling me a troll certainly won't hurt my feelings or make me go elsewhere because my comments are based on experience rather than conjecture.

vp911

I see we are calling each other trolls instead of useful discussion.