NavyDoc333

Hey again all... I bet you thought you got rid of me? Not a chance, I still love coming on and reading, although I try to keep my mouth shut since I'm no longer an 'owner'.

Anyway, as many of you may remember, I had some problems with my RL and traded it for an 06 GS300. I though I'd give my 1mo synopsis...

GS Pro's/Cons vs the RL - (Not necessarily in order of their importance)
1) 6speed transmission is ultra smooth and responsive, and makes the car 'feel' quicker than the RL off of the line. (the RL gets the nod for speed once the VTEC kicked in...but I rarely drove it in that RPM range). My RL had what I called a 'dead spot' when the tach was between 1300-1500 (about 40mph..where I did most of my driving) where it would bog down in 5th and I'd have to push it to pop it back into 4th and get rid of the 'drone'.

2) MPG - I repeatedly get 25-26mpg on an average per tank with the GS. My RL always got 19mpg. (yes I used premium)

3) Base response with ML stereo. I will say that I liked the 'surround' and highs of the RL better. But the base is amazing in the GS.

4) NAV - I like that the GS offers me 3 routes to choose from when I pick a destination. It also has multiple screen setups to see the route as you drive. The RL had better resolution, and I liked that you could change the colors on the RL display. You can input POI on the go... but you have to do a work around button push for a 'backdoor'...which is a bit of a pain. The RL has the best voice recognition...hands down. THe GS has a sexier voice!

5) BlueTooth - I miss the RL's voice recognition when it comes to phone calls. I do like that I can keep my phone book in the GS and there is 1 touch dialing and 'caller id' on the GS if it's someone in my phone book. The GS doesn't 'ring'... the stereo shuts off...and you have to hear your own phone. I don't like that as much as my RL saying, "You have an incoming call". I also liked being able to say, "Transfer" in the RL, and have it transfer the call. I don't like that if I'm on the phone...and get into the GS, it automatically transfers the call to the car. I'd rather pick if it does that or not. Having said all of that, my wife says she can hear me a lot better in the GS.

6) Rain Sensing wipers - I didn't know how great this feature was until I had it. Anyone who's had it. It's awesome! Just about every time I am about to reach for the wiper switch... the car does it for me....and speeds up the wiper rate with speed and rainfall.

7) Folding side mirrors... total gimic... I'd rather someones door hit my mirror before my door. But... I have used it when I parallel park on a busy street.
I like that the side mirrors on the GS are autodimming not just the rear view mirror.

8) Backup camera... I'm getting used to it. I know I could have added this to the RL but I never did.

9) Front and rear parking sensors... I know I could have added these to the RL too...but I didn't. I'm really enjoying them especially in my garage and in parking lots (until I get used to the size and shape of the car)

10) Service - I had to take my GS in for some creaks along the windshield which there was a TSB for....and noisy electronic steering wheel lock. The service was incredible. They brought me in to an office, sat me down with a service manager, asked me to explain my problem...and then arranged for me to take a 'technition' along for a ride to point it out. Best service I've ever had...and I've been to Lexus dealerships before for service. They do the wash, tire dressing, vaccume and detail the dash. Knoxville Lexus really does a good job. Anyway...they fixed my issues. All is well.

11) Ride and Handling - The GS has a very stiff ride. It's partly because of the low profile tires. I'm really not into pushing any of my cars around corners..etc. So I just enjoy the quiet of the GS. But when pushed...the RL did handle better. Although SH-AWD is an interesting concept... I'm sure in the 18mo's I owned the car, I stepped on the gas during a turn hard enough to induce the torque vectoring probably twice...and both of those times were to show the feature off to someone in the car...who probably could care less. I'm sure if we ever get snow again here in TN, I'll be wishing I had the AWD. But I don't know if the weight... and poor gas milage are worth having it for those rare occations I would use it.
OH...and I like that the GS has more options for tires in it's size! I couldn't believe how few tires were available for the RL.... hope that gets better with time.

12) Looks - Exterior... the GS gets my vote. I've loved the GS's shape since they first came out in 94 and was the only Toyota Italian designed by Giorgetti. I never really like the RL's looks, except for head on...and some from the back. The interior... hmmmm... I think the RL's looked nicer. But the GS is very nice too...so it's subjective at best.

13) The GS doesn't burn a drop of oil! $%&@^- you Acura Customer Relations! Sorry...had to get that in!

That's most of it... If I think of anything else... I'll add later. (this has not been edited for spelling or grammer... sue me)

neuronbob

Hey Doc, happy to have you back anytime. Don't be quiet! Glad you're enjoying your GS.

To address your navi comment: The RL offers something similar, though you have to choose the type of route you want BEFORE it calculates it for you. One can calculate the route maximizing or minimizing freeways, or using the most direct route, and the RL (and TL) give you the option of avoiding certain neighborhoods that you can program in.

It sounds like the handsfree implementation is better in the RL.

In Japan, the Legend has mechanical folding mirrors, but that didn't make it across the Pacific to our RLs. I could have used that in the parking garage I parked in this week during jury duty. It would have removed the trouble of walking to the other side of the car to manually fold the mirror.

I wish we had rain sensing wipers....maybe next time.

I'm sure the Acura corporate types are reading your comment and wondering what they did wrong in your case.

dwboston

The RL does have this. It's called "View Routes" - it's an option when you confirm the destination address and it shows you all of the possible routes color coded by the different routing methods on the map - then you can scroll through them and select the one that you want.

Mike_TX

It's interesting that I JUST got back from a Taste of Lexus drive event, and I drove the GS350 again (I've driven them before). Now, this isn't a slam to NavyDoc's new car, but just a commentary -

The GS runs like snot, but my wife and I were both horrified at how rattly and creaky the GS was ... after all, this was supposed to be an "appreciation" event, and I expected that the cars would be painstakingly prepped. It started when the guy closed my driver's door for me. The window was down, and when the door shut I heard all kinds of rattling from the door. My wife looked at me and frowned.

Then we took off around the driving course, and the driver's seat was squeaking like crazy ... I don't know if it was the leather rubbing against something, or the springs inside the seat, but it was constant and AWFUL. There was also a vague rattling coming from inside the dash somewhere. Altogether VERY un-Lexus-like, and a huge turn-off. Made us wonder what an owner should expect after a few thousand miles on a new one.

Suffice to say if I were shopping and did a test drive and heard this stuff, I'd cut it short and toss the keys back to them. In fairness, I did a test drive when I got rid of my IS350, and that car was tighter. But this one today was a real eye-opener for me.

Having said that, there are other things about the GS that I don't like as well as the RL (rear seat room, small trunk, outward visibility, body shape, etc.), so it's not a good option for me, anyway.

As for the Nav, it's already been pointed out the RL does multiple screens and calculates 3 routes. You just have to know that. More than anything, though, I know from my IS days that the Lexus Nav just doesn't hold a candle to the RL's, and that's too bad, since Lexus has a lot going for it in other departments.

(Now, I could really get used to a new LS460, and maybe even forgive the nav its shortcomings.)

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AsianTL

Good review, but not the best it can be.

Personally, I have never driven GS-300 but I prefer GS350 AWD.
Lexus GS350AWD= or > Acura RL> Lexus GS300.

C/P: Old news from Edmund.

Edmunds.com's Inside Line editors tested the 2005 Acura RL, Audi A6 3.2 quattro, 2006 BMW 530xi, 2006 Infiniti M35x and 2006 Lexus GS 300, to determine which car delivered the best combination of performance, luxury and value.

"It's not the fastest or the flashiest, but the Acura RL still ran away with first place because we were looking for the all-wheel-drive sedan with the right balance between performance and luxury," said Ed Hellwig, Senior Editor of Edmunds.com's Inside Line. "What it lacks in distinctive styling it more than makes up for in sold overall performance, a well-designed, comfortable interior and a standard features list that leaves little to be desired."

The Audi A6 snagged a distant second place; it earned top scores for its interior design, materials quality and overall build quality but didn't fare as well in the performance testing or evaluation of features.

Noting styling touches such as chrome-ringed gauges and wood trim on the console, the Edmunds.com editors observed that the cabin looks and feels like a luxury car should.

The Infiniti M35x barely edged out the BMW 530xi for third place. The editors felt that the M35x traded refinement for performance. They gave high marks to the V6 engine, which they said was "so good, there¿s no need to upgrade to the V8."

The editors felt that the BMW drove better than any other car in the test, and is comfortable and practical as well. But with a sticker price of $59,815 and an Edmunds.com True Market Value® very close to sticker, it was nearly $10,000 more than the Infiniti and almost $15,000 more than the Audi. The editors remarked, "It's good, but not that good."

The less athletic 2006 Lexus GS 300 AWD pulled up the rear. Editors commented that it is a better luxury sedan than sports sedan; it was competent and capable, but just didn't have enough personality to stand out in this crowd.

TampaRLX-SH

NavyDoc,

Thanks for the comparo. I am glad you are enjoying the GS, you deserve it! The MOST important thing is that YOU are happy with the GS. It is a fine car, and as the RL does not suit many people, neither will the GS. But if it offers you what it is important to YOU - it is a winner.

It is a shame your RL let you down, and more critical, that Acura CS let you down. Relish the Lexus butt smooches as I would in the same circumstances. My Acura service is on par with our Lexus dealer, but I know that is not the norm. It appears srvice quality is more consistent with the Lexus service model.

Enjoy the ride, share some more comparisons and by all means, please join in the dialogue here.

larrynimmo

I agree with TampaRL, you made the choice thats right for you...without a doubt I too would have been happy with the Lexus, or Infiniti. OT === It is sad for me to say as much as I like how the BMW's look I have no desire to own one.

I find it interesting that you cite mechanical problems for switching to Lexus, while I cite mechanical problems for switching to Acura. (I didn't actually buy a lexus, but came very close) All the people on forums with Transmission problems, buy-backs(if you are lucky enough) , wind noise, rattles, creaks, engine noise, tires that wear out in 20k. On the Acurazine, most members are happy with their cars and Acura service. On the Club Lexus site, about one third of the members are not happy...that's got to tell you something. We are as loyal as our cars are reliable. 05's had a lot of flaws. 06 had less, 07 have almost none. NavyDoc had a problem that I fealt he was impatient with resolving. He expected an immediate solution for a non-immediate problem. Issues like his never improve. If they stay the same, it is livable. If it gets worse, Acura would be compelled to fix.

dwest1023

Thanks for the writeup. I always enjoy a comparison review as basically thats what I do every weekend. I don't always post a comparison, cuz, most of the time its not worth it. Being an audiophile I find your comparison, about the GS audio system interesting. I did not find the bass in the Lexus to be better. Did you know the RL has a subwoofer adjustment? The only OEM system I found superior to the RL was the one in the Audi 8.The new CTS ain't bad either. Frankly I was ashamed that ML would put their signature on the system in the Lexus.

noobie

Doc,

Thanks for the review. Even though I did not buy the RL, I still stop by once in awhile to see what's up. I am still waiting for my 08 GS. Had the chance to check both cars out again, the GS at Taste of Lexus and the RL when I bought a MDX last month. They are both nice cars, but as others have pointed out, different in some ways.

My ToL Gs was in pretty good shape. I was a bit surprised that the cars had only 200 miles on them and we were doing everything you were not supposed to do. Wide open throttle, hard on brakes, etc. Good way to test a car, even though course is short. It does go like snot as Mike noted.

The car that has me enthralled though is the new CTS. If I could find one in the color and option combo I want in the next two weeks, I would consider canceling my GS order. But first year bugs and many dealers holding to MSRP is sobering. The CTS almost outsold the RL by 20:1 in October! A decked out CTS that competes with the RL feature wise will cost about 6 or 7 K more. The fully loaded CTS models are teh hardest to come by and in the highest demand. Go figure, lots of base CTS at $35K, very few loaded at $48K.

neuronbob

Hey noobie. My MIL wants to go test drive the new CTS and I'll probably go with her when she does. As to the reason GM makes fewer fully loaded versions available.... for the almighty dealer markup? All I can tell you is that that car definitely has my attention. I'm just waiting to see what Acura shows up to bat with next year, whether it is the TL alone or the TL AND RL .

SpicyMikey

Glad to see your still lurking around. Poke your head out now and then.

I'm with you on the rain sensing wipers and perimeter sensors. I wish the RL had that. I stil miss it from my other car. I know it could be added to the back but I hate electronic dealer installed accessories. Makes me nervous.

noobie

Bob,

Interested to hear what you think about the CTS after driving it. I drove one a few days ago. If it were not for the first year bugs and lack of availability, leading to dealer silliness, I would have one in my garage now!

There are a few quirks though, no bluetooth, just Onstar, something GM will address in future years. Also the seat backs are hard plastic. Look out of place with a hand sewn leather dash.

db22

New law in California is to turn your lights on in "reduced visability". I.E. Rain. My 2000 Caddy Catera turned the lights on if you had the wipers on for more than 20 secs. Combined with the rain sensing option, that would be a nice feature.

Dupreve

I have had rain sensing wipers on my Lexus ES350 and my Mercedes E320 and don't really miss the feature on my RL. I found the rain sensing feature to be great in a sudden cloudburst or downpour, but lacking when it came to clearing my windshield often enough for my tastes when mist or drizzle occured.
In both cars the rain sensing setting replaced the setting for intermittent wipe with any manual speed setting. I prefer the freedom to set my own wiper speed for windshield clearing or seeing through drizzle.

chuck abbott

I'm with you Dupreve, I had a 04 BMW X3 with the auto wippers and I don't miss them a bit. The only thing I don't like so far is the dammed lights. It may be the latest thing but I much prefare a more defused lighting like the X3.

Mike_TX

Me three on the rain-sensing wipers. I've had 2 BMW's and a Lexus with them, and my wife's STS has them, and I don't like them. I was always having to override them to take care of certain conditions, and in general I'd rather just control them myself - after all, it's a matter of safety!

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gavine

Jay Leno made fun of those once....he said something to the effect of "how lazy can you be to not want to push a button when it starts raining?". It was very funny when he did it.

NJ06RL

Funny, I test drove the GS350 and was quite impressed with its acceleration and engine note but I really did not like the cabin (too tight and the instrument panel just did not match up to our RL) and I found the kneeside drop down console pretty weird. I thought the trunk was small ( not like our RL's is really large to begin with ) and I felt the Lexus was a little too long. I wouldn't mind having a GS350 AWD as a second car but I prefer my RL at the price I bought it at.

Tully44

I am 4 months and 3,200 miles into my GS and agree with most of your comments, except...

1. I think my GS350 with 18" wheels handles ever so slightly better then the RL.

2. Rain sensing wipers: Too sensitive. I'll have the dealer turn them off when I go in for my first service.

3. Nav on the RL is more intuitive but I have become accustomed to how the Lexus Nav 'thinks'.

4. For those who think beyond the purchase, it is a shame that there is a limited availability (and at a high cost) of tires for the RL. Off hand, I can't think of another car that wears 245-50/17 shoes.

5. Fit and finish of the RL is a very, very close second to the GS. It all comes down to likes/dislikes. I like the tight feel of the leather seats in the GS vs the seats in the RL.

6. I think the RL looks good in any color. As for the GS, if it isn't in SGM, black or silver, it looks the shape of an ostrich egg at certain angles.

As for the smoothness of the 6spd auto, quiet ride, etc., the GS is noticeably better. My MPG city is at 16 MPG (don't expect much in stop-n-go L.A.) but highway mileage is 30 MPG.

RL is still the best $41.5K bang for the buck (street price) available. But for $2,500 more, the GS is worth the extra $$$.

kirbyflorida

I respect your opinion, I drove the GS extensively before the RL and found the RL much more of a drivers car, feel and response.
The GS is a quieter car based on quiet cruising as their target, IMO.
And no way can the GS handle better than an RL, the special tires may give more grip and feel, but you would have to change the tires on the RL to compare apples to apples, the SHAWD is state of the art in the entire car industry.

SpicyMikey

Honda always seems to be a decade behind the competition with transmissions. It's a perpetual shortcoming with them. Not sure why that is.

My RL is pretty smooth, but, I hate the way my MDX shifts hard and late

larrynimmo

Being first isn't always great...look at the early Honda/Acura 5 speed automatics and the high number of failures with the transmissions. There were people that wouldn't buy the cars. When I bought my 03 TL acurazine TL board was lit up with people on their 4th transmisions. In the history of Honda, there is most likely no more costly warranty/recall program than dealing with that transmission. Now Honda has the most reliable transmission in the industry. Don't change it until its right.

Go on Club Lexus ES-350 site and ask them what they think of Lexus's ultra smooth 6 speed automatic transmission. I have been a car enthusiast for 37 years (even before I was sixteen) and until I read their website I ddn't know what a "transmission flare" was. Now I know what it is, enough to know that none of my Acura's (past or present) have had them. While it may be a small percentage of Lexus's overall business, I bet they've had over 1,000 ES buybacks.

I too want a six speed transmision, but I want it to be reliable, and i want consumer's report to acknowledge that it is good so I can be able to sell the car for decent resale value when the car is 4 - 5 years old.

When consimer reports marks your car as a "car you need to stay away from" can cost you thousands in resale value. The only honda/acura(toyota as well)that had such destinctions were cars that had major transmission issues (plus v6 engine problems with toyota)

Mike_TX

Interesting to note that I drove an LS460 at Taste of Lexus two weeks ago and its transmission flared, too. I was on the acceleration strip and when I let off the gas near the end, the revs just hung there like my IS350 used to. Flare city, and that's the magnificent 8-speed.

In fairness, it's pretty well been documented that the flare is an emissions thing that's programmed in to burn off the excess fuel when the revs would otherwise drop suddenly and spew partially-burned hydrocarbons out the tailpipe. I think Toyota's problem is trying to minimize it while not threatening their EPA certifications.

The actual tranny failures are a different matter, and one Toyota really needs to address.

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larrynimmo

reading on a lexus site...navy doc is having his dash taken apart because of rattles...guess the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

SpicyMikey

Man, that saying was never more true then with the car industry. I think it's all the intense advertisng with this business. The hype never lives up to the reality.

Next to Acura, I think Lexus has the best "Image versus Reality" ratio (if there is such a thing!), but others are even worse. Eventhough I think I know the reality of MB and BMW, I'm still surprised when I test drive one and realize it's worse then I thought. I still initially get caught up by marketing and image, but, luckily I'm not hypnotized by the badges and I can see the reality once I'm in front of the car

If someone actually could calculate an image/reality ratio for the RL, I'm sure it would be a negative number. You truly get MORE car then you expect. I think all the Acura's fall into that category. My dealer had an almost new MB C class for sale on their lot one day (someone wasn't happy with the purchase and dumped it quickly). They had it right next to a new TSX for comparison. It was even the same exterior and trim color. I didn't take it for a test drive, but it was amazing how much cheaper the C felt and looked.

wstr75

I agree with Navy Doc's assessment of the RL's 40 mph acceleration dead-spot. Have twice nearly gotten poked in the rear by on-coming traffic when attempting a quick pass in slow moving traffic.

Anyone have a guess why our RL has a stump-puller low gear? My car gets great highway gas mileage. Astounding for its weight. Its in town mileage is lower than what I would have expected considering its excellent highway fuel economy. My thinking is the stump-puller first gear is the aspect that significantly pulls down the RL's city fuel economy.

This car is a sweet, sweet machine. However, I wonder if it would be an even better machine if there were a way to flip a switch for economy mode (change transmission and engine settings) and for sport/performance mode (change transmission, engine and suspension settings).

neuronbob

Feeling bad for the Doc. Not surprised about rattles in a Lexus, all cars have them.

SpicyMikey

My RL is rattle free, honestly. The car is solid.

Wish I could say the same for my new MDX. There's all sorts of noises coming from underneath the car. Can't wait to bring it in for my first oil change and have it checked out. Still wouldn't sell it for a Lexus RX, thumps and all.

Mike_TX

Mikey, the control arm replacement will return your MDX to rattle-free, trust me.

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VTEC Racer

Well the RL is built to a higher standard than the GS, so rattles aren't surprising. As of late, quality issues are starting to become more and more frequent with Toyota.

acuralvr1

I have no rattles in my 9 month old RL with 11K miles.

Lexus has very consistant great service departments I know. I have a terrific service department- I do realize that the Acura service departments are inconsistant. I can give a positive plug for Ardmore, PA Acura- I've been in that area on extended business and they've helped me out a few times. Bridgewater, NJ Acura is the one I use all the time and they've been great.

When I purchased my RL I gave most serious consideration to the M35X and the GS 350. The GS handled well and rode well, but I found the cabin to be noisy- I was quite surprised by that. The sound system is nice, but the RL beats it with DVD-A. At the time XM wasn't available although they were getting ready to offer it in the not too distant future.

The huge negative with the GS was the tiny driving compartment. I'm 5'11" and 190#- I'm not a huge guy. I don't know how a guy my size or bigger buys that car- it's absolutely claustrophobic. The center console and the driver's door practically make contact with your body. This is clearly a women's car and a small guy's car.

I could've bought the M35X- that's the subject for another thread- but I couldn't have bought the GS 350.

NavyDoc333

Hey again guys... YUP... it's so funny that you guys were talking about me. I was just thinking of coming back over and updating you all.
Yes... it creaks too. The grass is definitely NOT greener as far as the 'creaks' go...but I will say that the dealer was MUCH better at addressing and fixing it.
They did take the dash apart ...twice.... and not it's quiet.

The good news is... I've driven 3k mi and so far... haven't burned a DROP of oil...and am still averaging 26mpg with a 50/50 mix of Hwy and City driving.

The more I've driven the Lexus... the more I appreciate the things that the RL did well... like cornering....and the voice regognition. I do miss it sometimes... and as much as I was flamed by some for 'over-reacting'.. I can still say that there is NO reason that a new RL engine should have been running the dipstick down to 'dry' between oil changes. Lexus has somehow mysteriously made an engine that has equal performance numbers, doesn't burn oil and gets better gas milage.

Want to hear something kinda cool about the Lexus service... the kind of thing that builds owner loyalty... When I brought my car in to have the dash taken apart, I was with my 3yr old daughter... they took me in an office to talk to me about what they'd have to do to fix the car,.. .when I left the office, they had transferred her car seat to my 'loaner' car, and there was a teddy bear with a Lexus t-shirt buckled into it. She was in heaven. Now that's smart!! Not to mention that they drove the car to my work when they were done with it...to swap out... without me having to ask.

By the way... AcuraZine is MUCH better than Club Lexus... you guys always gave great advice and feedback.

Who knows... maybe someday I'll get over being pissed at of Honda Motor Co. for blowing off my complaints.... and buy the MDX for my wife....and I'll be back amongst you.

AsianTL

The good news is... I've driven 3k mi and so far... haven't burned a DROP of oil

NavyDoc333,

Welcome back.

My free rattles 07 RL with 10,000 mile and 13 months old has not burned a drop of oil.

NavyDoc333

See... that's the way it should be! I wish you could have talked to Acura for me and said, "If Navydoc's car is NORMAL burning oil... then what's wrong with MINE...that it doesn't".

Chas2

good to hear from you Doc! I am waiting to see when Honda comes up with a direct injection V-6 also! I hear the Toyota direct injection engines, just as BMW, Audi and Mercedes, are wonderful. Especially that twin turbo BMW engine!

kirbyflorida

I predict that he twin turbo will be a real problem after warranty, time will tell.

gavine

The "stump-puller" 1st gear is probably to better 0-60 times for marketing purposes. I start-out in 2nd gear every time and find that I get better acceleration under normal driving that way.

I get 22MPG with 80% of my driving around town and only about 20% on the highway. I would assume that starting in 2nd gear help mileage too.

wstr75

Gavine, thanks for sharing your real world 80/20 city/highway gas mileage experience. Yep, you are probably right about the stump puller 1st gear is for better 0 - 60 times. This is why an economy setting where the tranny opts to start off in 2nd gear would be worthwhile. Hear that Acura?

gavine

I've mentioned about starting in 2nd gear many times on this forum and no one ever put in their two cents about it. Try it and let me know what you think because I'd hate to think I'm the only one who appreciates it.

wstr75

Gavine, I tried your method today and it works! From watching the RPMs, I can see where 2nd gear starts would make a mpg difference in stop and go city driving. The car was not all that sluggish, either. You'd think this would be something Acura could implement in the next RL, a switch that puts the car in economy mode for leisurely city driving. Also, I forced the tranny into 5th gear at 35 mph on slightly downhill sections. When left in automatic mode, the transmission has always stayed in 4th gear during those sections where an itty-bitty bit of power is required to keep the car rolling at 35 to 40 mph. Surely the Honda/Acura engineers can make a user configurable system that lets us choose between performance and economy settings.