yesrdx

I think most people who live in locations where it never snows usually don't consider the AWD drivetrain. I live in Georgia where it might snow 1" for a day or two in a given year, so I wasn't sure if I really "needed" AWD. After driving in the rain for the past week, I'm glad I went with the AWD. It definitely builds confidence when you're driving through puddles.

Comfy

Congratulations on your new car. Keep in mind that AWD does not help you in steering, cornering, braking or other driving manoeuvres. It only helps you move from stationary when the front wheels are slipping. Also, "confidence" is a relative term which can end you in serious trouble. Sometimes being "not confident" may be better for you and the car. Good luck.

youngTL

It actually does help you with steering/cornering if you have SH-AWD but only if you're on the gas. It's too bad they stopped using that system in the newer RDXs.

yesrdx

Are you saying the AWD system only functions when the vehicle is accelerating from a stopped position? When you say the AWD "does not help," do you mean it just sits there like a bump on a pickle with zero function? I'd have to disagree.

While mis-guided confidence may lead to an accident, I'd rather have an AWD system than a FWD in rainy weather like in the photos above.

YeuEmMaiMai

it only functions when there is a certain amount of wheel slip detected then it actuates a pump to engage the rear wheels. for day to day driving the AWD on a RDX is fine... I drove it through a foot and a half of snow a few years ago (2013 model) and it went like this:

1. pull up to stop and stop
2. start to pull away on slippery surface, car slides around like a fwd car for a moment and then you feel it straighten up as the rear wheels are engaged and you start to move forward. Once the wheel slip is gone, the RDX reverts back to fwd....

it will not get you out of the big stuff like the older RDX with SHAWD but on the other hand it does not drink nearly as much gas....

Mr_MDX

16+ AWD RDX will transfer more TQ to the rear tires than the 13-15 models.

KeithL

But it only send to rear wheels on initial acceleration and if a wheel slips. We also live in Georgia and got AWD for 2 reasons, first the occasion snow or in serious rain if the RDX were to loose traction. The second is my steep driveway. All her previous FWD RDX and CRV the front wheels would hop/spin climbing the driveway as the weight shifted off the front wheels to the back. With the 14 RDX and 16 RDX since the rear wheels are in play under the initial acceleration we have never seen this happen again.

RDX10

X2, they call these types of AWD systems "slip and grip". They have them tuned to be AWD only upon initial acceleration and only upon sensing some front end wheel slip. I you stop with the front wheels on ice, you will see a momentary slip followed by a shove, this shove is the rear wheels activating.

It will not activate while moving unless you suddenly gave it a lot of gas, it would then either activate to help prevent some torque steer, or if the front wheels slipped, to aid in traction momentarily. I feel like as a consolation, they should have at least given the 2013+ RDX an AWD LOCK button like they do in almost all other crossovers for those times you do get fully stuck, or just for some added security if driving slowly through some thick snow. My dad owns an 09 santa fe and I always lock the AWD system if I ever drive it. I feel a big difference vs not locking it.

The old SH-AWD like in my RDX, is the true real deal full time AWD that doesn't require slipping to activate. I really don't know whjat Acura means when they say they tuned the 2016+ RDX AWD system to have more rear bias...what does that even mean?

YeuEmMaiMai

still not going to get you unstuck in heavy snow if you wind up off the road...

ceb

While there are different flavors of AWD and some do AWD better than others, Comfy is correct that AWD (all 4 wheels being driven) will not help you steer or stop better.

AWD will let you move away from a stop better but having more driven wheels will not help you stop - hence the reason you see so many SUVs in a ditch after an unexpected first snow.


Tires are the only thing that will actually help you steer and stop in poor weather.

Desert Ridge

My last Honda vehicle had AWD. I never found much use for it and the VTM fluid service is hideously expensive == even if you DIY.

So, when I got my '16 RDX, I got FWD.

I really miss the AWD at launch. This motor makes lots of power and one tire can't get it all to ground. Additionally, torque steer is wicked under throttle.

Would I get AWD if I could choose again? Probably not due to the added expense of gas and service. But, I do miss it during the stop-light Grand Prix.

RDX10

The latest gen RDX is not equipped with VTM-4 like I am assuming your pilot or ridgeline was, so you don't have to worry about that.

yesrdx

While I respect members opinions, I'll have to disagree on the steering part. I'm pretty sure most "professional" reviewers who've done a review have said that the AWD drivetrain gets rid of some of the FWD understeering for the RDX. To say that the RDX's AWD system is only beneficial during launch from a complete stop sounds absurd. I could be wrong, but I'm going to go with the idea that the RDX's AWD will enhance steering/cornering. You're probably right about the stopping.

YeuEmMaiMai

RDX/CRV use automatic AWD

This is an "on-demand" all wheel drive system. Under normal driving conditions, only one axle is powered. When wheel slipping occurs (the driving driveshaft rotates faster than the driven driveshaft), a multiplate hydraulic clutch, viscous coupling, or other similar traction control device locks and engages another axle. Torque gets transferred to another axle. As soon as difference in front and rear axle speeds is eliminated, the device unlocks and the vehicle goes back into two-wheel drive mode.

The difference between the traction devices that are used in full-time all wheel drive and automatic all wheel drive systems is that the device used in automatic all wheel drive system replaces the center differential.

Advanced electronically controlled all wheel drive systems can be proactive and lock the traction control device even before wheels start to slip - the need for all wheel drive is determined in real time, based on the information that is collected from various sensors (i.e. g-force sensor, accelerator pedal position, etc.).

Some vehicles let the driver to lock the multiplate hydraulic clutch manually when the driver feels that he needs all wheel drive engaged permanently, for example to drive off road. For example, in Nissan X-Trail, this is accomplished by pressing a button on the dashboard console. In Subaru Legacy, the clutch is locked when the automatic transmission gear shift lever is at the position "1".

A known problem with multiplate hydraulic clutches that are used in automatic all wheel drive systems is traction device overheating. For example, this can occur with some compact SUVs when they are driven off-road, through a thick layer of snow, etc. ECU detects overheating, disengages the clutch, and puts the vehicle into 2WD mode. A warning light is displayed on the instrument panel.

RDX10

As absurd as it may seem to you, the AWD in the 2G RDX is not going to help you at all when taking corners. The only thing it does to aid handling is to prevent the atrocious torque steer created by a semi powerful transverse mounted engine in a lighter vehicle.

Hell it may have have felt like it helped because these "reviewers" were told it would or some other factor like having increased weight over the rear axles made the vehicle more prone to oversteer vs understeer and therefore felt better vs the lighter more understeer prone rear end of a fwd model

yesrdx

It's one or the either.

"...the AWD RDX is still more dynamic on the track than the FWD model."
Quote by Alex Dykes. He does a fair review and doesn't seem biased.

2016 Acura RDX AWD Review (With Video)

RDX10

I really like his reviews, very in depth and not very biased. I still don't see how this AWD system is going to help when it doesn't activate in corners.

yesrdx

As much as Alex dislikes the fact that the RDX no longer comes with SH-AWD, he seems to give the current AWD some credit.


Here's what it says on Acura's website:

All-Wheel Drive with Intelligent Control -

• During moderate acceleration or when front wheel slip is detected in dry conditions, up to 40% of engine torque is transferred to the rear wheels.
  
• On a wet or slippery surface, wheel slippage will cause a reduction in engine output to the front wheels possibly to a point where torque is distributed 50/50 between the front and rear wheels.

Hard to know what they mean by "moderate" acceleration. Standstill? Downshift acceleration?

RDX10

They mean when you mash the gas pedal at anything greater than half throttle. They may have made it so that it sends like 20% to the rear during cornering, I am not sure, but they don't mention that and they would have if it did.

I seen a company that took the 2014 CRV and put it on rollers, the rear wheels didn't even activate at all. Hopefully they fixed it this time around. I get what you are saying about Alex, but Alex is still human and Acura did say they tuned it to send more power to the rear, it could be psychological. I really don't know. have you driven a 2013-2015 AWD to compare?

yesrdx

I have not.

I'm not trying to disagree with anyone. I'd just like to know the truth.

Here's a quote from an Acura brochure:

http://pa.motorwebs.com/acura/brochures/RDX.pdf

Now, I've heard some people refer to the RDX's AWD system to be a "slip and grip" style system. Sounds like either Acura is spreading false advertisement with their "intelligent control system" or people are wrong about the RDX's AWD ability.

yesrdx

Article from cnet.com:

2015 Acura RDX review - CNET

Now, can we all agree that the RDX's AWD system isn't just a sitting turd while driving in wet conditions?

RDX10

I am not trying to argue either man , Just trying to explain what the system really does. The system is a slip and grip system and I am guessing their alteration for 2016 is to allow it to lock up when going uphill.

I think you are misunderstanding what Acura is saying, every single company with this type of slip and grip system works in pretty much the exact some way. The only variable is how fast the computer can sense the difference in the rate of wheel spin. Go onto the hyundai website and read about their santa fe AWD system, or look at Toyota under the rav4, fords escape, nissan's rogue...etc. All the same thing

I have seen cnet spread false information many many times. So if Acura themselves never said it sends 25% during cornering, I don't buy it. The parts you bolded simply bolster everyone's point that this system is really only active during acceleration and when the front wheels slip. Many companies like to b.s and say their system can send power before wheels slip...they also state that their vehicles run in 100% FWD to save fuel...so which one is it? Is that companies vehicle becoming AWD on its' own or when slippage occurs?

yesrdx

Well, their press release doesn't specifically say 25 percent but mentions cornering:

Acura | Press Releases Article | Acura.com

I may be wrong but the Intelligent Control doesn't seem to be new for the 2016 year model. Perhaps it was just reprogrammed along with an increased percentage of torque to the rear wheels.

RDX10

I see, but it does mention some power going back there during cornering. I would say maximum of 20%, anymore than that and they risk driveline binding like in a 4x4.

You are correct, intelligent control has been there since 2013, they just did some program work to make it send more power to the rear in more situations. It is a step in the right direction but I hope to see the return of SH-AWD next time around.

ceb

No need to believe me, try here, here and here

yesrdx

Before even clicking the links, have you read the links to the previous posts on this thread?

Time to go out for me. Will check out the links you provided later. Somehow I doubt it's considering the Intelligent Control design of Acura's AWD system.

ceb

Sure, and it pertains to how the decides which axle is driven with what percentage of power.

None of that has to do with steering. The bottom line is that a driven wheel steers and brakes no differently from a rolling wheel.

youngTL

It's not either/or in that scenario. You're discounting the fact that throttle by wire exists. For example, on the TLX SH-AWD models, they run in mostly FWD (I think it's 90/10 actually) on the highway and cruising situations until one of the following happens:

1. You step on the gas pedal. The computer says "Hey, he stepped on the gas, sending power to the rear wheels!" I'm almost certain the 2016 RDX works the same way minus the torque vectoring side to side. The power isn't made yet, but the computer has already connected the diff clutch before the power is made. It's pre-emptive.

2. You start to turn a corner hard. The computer recognizes the ELECTRONIC steering input and the yaw moment, and sends some power to the rear BEFORE it executes the steering command, to neutralize understeer, and in the case of SH-AWD, sends some of that power further to the outside rear wheels. This is again pre-emptive. No slip required. It happens by driver input. All of that happens in a small fraction of a second, like 1/20th maybe. I don't know the actual time but it's so short that it's imperceptible.

3. Slippage. This is the reactive part. The new systems are incredibly quick to react though. You should feel how stable the TLX SH-AWD is in the rain and snow. It's really amazing. The RDX (2016) can't be that far behind, can it?

Most people forget about #1 and #2, that the car is proactive based on electronic throttle, electronic steering, and g-force input BEFORE slippage occurs.

yesrdx

Beautifully said. People have preconceptions about how AWD systems work. Sure, the second generation isn't equipped with the fancy SH-AWD, but to say Acura's AWD performs the same as its FWD platform is plain silly.

RDX10

Well done! A seriously valid and good argument for the "proactive systems". Just that they use eroneous wording when they make their ads. They use lines like "intelligent" or "senses wheel spin before it happens". So along those words, it would lead the consumer to think that this system is 100% front wheel drive and it somehow knows you are going to hit a patch of ice before you even hit it.

Furthermore, I have driven these part time AWD vehciles on slick ice, I can tell you that you will feel a slight shove after some slipping and then when driving, despite hitting patches of ice, the system does not engage. It instead engages if I mash the go pedal while already in a steady cruise. This causes the fronts to slip and then I can feel the rears kick on momentarily.

If this system really "knew before it slipped" that effect would not happen. And in my humble and non conffeontational opion, your argument is sort of really grabbing at straws....but thanks for the good rebuttle lol.

Comfy

Does anyone have any videos of how the current RDX performs in tests such as icy slopes or rollers. Generally I've seen that most AWD systems appear as sitting ducks while on rollers (except Subaru and SHAWD Acuras).
The proof is in the pudding, isn't it. None of them start instantaneous as claimed. There's a lag of several seconds before the AWD is actually seen engaging.
Of course all manufacturers try to market themselves saying that their AWD system is somehow superior than others. And this is only about giving traction and says nothing about steering or cornering.
I believe electronic braking on selective tires or maybe even PAWS can help with steering and cornering in some vehicles but they have nothing to do with being AWD or not.

youngTL

I would like to point out that I wasn't making an argument at all. Rather, I was simply pointing out that it is possible for a system to be BOTH a slip-reactive system AND sending power before a non-slip event occurs (which sometimes prevents slippage).

For example, mashing the throttle to the floor in a FWD V6 TLX (using it because I'm familiar with them, the RDX is likely similar minus the side to side vectoring) when you're going in a straight line from a stop WILL get you wheelspin! But if you mash the throttle in an SH-AWD V6 TLX, you do not get any wheelspin. This is preventing slippage by the people that coded the system reasoning that if you mash the throttle, torque should be split between all of the wheels for maximum acceleration and minimal slippage.


However, if your rear wheels are on ice and the front wheels are on dry pavement and you try the same thing, the system will slip for a very very short time, and then redirect power to the front wheels instead.

snorf

I live in central FL where 4/A WD has little value, but growing up in snow country I found that people with subarus were far more pleased with their snow capabilities than any other vehicle.


BTW - It's proof is in the putting, not pudding. It's a saying from the Bible. The Israelites carrying the ark of the covenant had to put their feet in the river without knowing how deep the water was - thus testing their faith (putting their feet in the water without knowing the depth). Just thought I'd pass that along to you.

awahl63

Good luck and enjoy your new vehicle!

ceb

Not in common useage.

You can also check here and here

Or maybe even here

While one can find references to "the proof is in the putting" that is clearly NOT common useage - but thanks for adding to my education. I didn't know that.

Kaputnik

So you're saying it's actually a golf analogy?

snorf

Yes. Jesus apparently was an excellent golfer.

yesrdx

You're starting to sound like a broken record. Okay. We get it. AWD is useless in ice/snow/rain conditions.

ceb

AWD has clear advantages in inclement weather as far as traction is concerned, but AWD doesn't help with steering or braking.

Combined with the proper tires, the RDX is very capable in winter.

RDX10

Lol at 2 seperate arugments going on. One is stating that the system sends power during turns and the other is the effectiveness of AWD systems in bad weather. I beleive the op was about the AWD system helping in rainy and inclement weather?

I would like to see a video of the current gen RDX on rollers, with 2 on the front wheels and one on the back wheels. Guarantee nothing will happen at all. You are going to get 40% sent to the rear in short bursts but the esp will come on to prevent wheel spin. So say you end up with the ideal scenario of 40% going to the back for more than a few seconds, due to the open rear diff, all the power will be going to the wheel on the rollers. Seems like acura should have at the least put in a LSD in the front wheels if they were cutting out the SH-AWD this gen.

In regards to my convo with the other member (sorry forgot who and on phone). My whole point is that if the system was really proactive, no wheel spin would happen at all, but it does. I am not arguing anything in terms of the efficacy of the system, just that I am sick of companies saying these systems detect wheel spin before it happens when in fact wheel spin is needed in order for the system to send power rear wards in a slick situation

On a sidenote: why is this system limited to a 60:40 split and not 50:50 like has been around since forever. Seems very counterintuitive. I feel like they could have implemented some SH-AWD tech, think constantly overdriven rear diff, this would have allowed for greater than 50% to the rear.