yesrdx

^
We know that not all AWD systems are equal and discussing SH-AWD for the second generation RDX is a moot point, so let's discuss the RDX's FWD vs. the worthless AWD drivetrain.

RDX10

At least you are now aware......

Mr_MDX

This is the best vid I know of.... (stalls at 8:40)

RDX10

Exactly as I expected. Bunch of front wheel spin and zero rear wheel action. About time someone starts holding these companies to their claims.

Sidenote: Really can't stand these clowns at TFL.

yesrdx

Well they had traction control off and almost zero momentum. I'm not an expert or anything but that's probably something you don't want to do unless you're trying to get stuck. Not exactly real world driving.

This is anecdotal at best but to share my experience, I've driven through some relatively thick mud. When the front wheels start to slip, you can definitely feel the rear wheels kicking in. But hey, who am I to say. I hear AWD is overrated and worthless.

Attachment 102330

Comfy

I'm getting a lot more information about the AWD systems and pudding. Lol.
We need more videos. Great discussion guys.

RDX10

You don't need momentum for hill that steep. Maybe a little steeper and I would think it would need it. Actually they did the right thing by turning traction control off. Having it on would have just caused the computer to keep cutting the throttle.

I have lived in canada all my life and have drive through white out blizzards, you do not want TC on when stuck in snow or mud or anything, you want to turn it off and mash the throttle. Admittedly, I have always had vehicles with sophisticated AWD systems so this recipe always works for me. In my dad's santa fe, I took it one winter and got stuck (was hooning in a field) so tried tc on and couldn't get anywhere, turned it off, locked the awd and mashed the throttle, that worked well.

AWD is amazing, only when it is true AWD. Not part time partial crap that barely does anything. In the situation above, it should have sent power to the rear wheels where there was clearly grip, but it didn't.

yesrdx

Here's a CRV but I couldn't care less about the snow. I see like half an inch every year or two. Still surprised you would have no preference in driving an AWD or FWD in heavy rain.

RDX10

Does the CRV have an awd lock button?


A PROPER AWD SYSTEM VS PART TIME CRAP.


oh and had to include SHAWD for good measure

ceb

There are three distinct discussions going on in this thread:

1. Does AWD (generic) help with steering and stopping in inclement weather?

2. What are the different types of AWD?

3. How good is the RDX AWD?

The OP's initial comment was closest to the first discussion. Like in the above post, AWD (generic) will help with traction but will not help with steering and braking.

In rain, AWD (generic) will help reducing wheelspin when staring from stoplights and the like.

dirleton

"I hear AWD is overrated and worthless."


Unless you're talking to someone who owns a Subaru.

RDX10

I have to admit, I am a bit of an AWD fanboy. Can't lie there. I just get very interested and intrigued by the different AWD systems. Therefore when any thread comes up on AWD I get excited to get into it lol. I have no particular favorite though, used to love quattro, not so much anymore. I am partial, but like all sophisticated AWD systems.

That could be some reason why the thread deviated like it did....sorry op!!

ceb

I'm a AWD junkie too and can debate quattro (lower case), Haldex and 4matic all day long - but - while there may be significant differences, the basic advantages (traction) and disadvantages (weight) are all the same.

RDX10

Lol me too! I see we have both brushed up on VW quite a bit. A personal favorite is VW's old 4Xmotion tech. It was like full time AWD with electronically locking front, central, and rear differentials with the ability to lock the middle and rear diffs and throw it into low range. Truly made the touareg a tank. Quattro is a simplified version with an electronic locking center diff but no front and rear locking diffs unless you have the newer gen quattros in the sport cars with the active rear diffs. Good stuff!

And agreed on your points!

youngTL

In the case of the TLX and several other Acuras, the weight part is actually both a disadvantage and an advantage. The advantage side of it is that it actually helps with the F/R balance of the vehicle by putting extra mass at the rear.

yesrdx

My initial post wasn't a question but rather a statement saying I'm glad I have AWD when driving in the rain. The second post mentioned how AWD is worthless except when a car accelerates from a standstill.

What's funny is that Honda/Acura has spent what I'm sure is probably in the millions of dollars to research and develop their AWD Intelligent Control system. Then we have some members saying how it's worthless with nothing to disprove the system's abilities. Am I supposed to just blindly believe the few members? Thanks but I think I'll go with the billion dollar company on this one.

Comfy

Please don't misunderstand me. (I'm the second poster you've mentioned). Me too am glad to be driving an AWD RDX. I've experienced the stalling on snow while on upslope in FWD cars but my AWD cars haven't done it so far. That gives me confidence. I'm simply not convinced about any advantages with regards to braking, cornering, other driving manoeuvres. If there are actual benefits, then that's even better. Let's not repeat all that has been already said before. I believe many posts were emphasizing different aspects of AWD. I understand and appreciate AWD is better than FWD anyway (hey that's why we all spent our hard earned money for it).
BTW all those videos were great. The video in snow was awesome even though not from a third party.
Threads like this make Acurazine more interesting and informative (thanks to OP for starting that). Otherwise we would be engulfed with simply too much of romantic escapades of a particular boy. Lol.

RDX10

Feel free to beleive what you want. I am speaking from personal experience. I don't think they spent millions at all, it feels like they "took a system off the shelf", there is nothing special going on here.

Regardless we can agree to disagree.

ceb

I'm sorry. I was completely wrong. AWD will steer and brake you out of any problem.

Please make sure that your next of kin have the information on the class action on Trinity guardrails and you keep AAA on speed dial - roadside assistance will not pay to pull you out of a ditch - in the event that you survive the crash.

ceb

It is funny how some people take marketing slogans like "intelligent" and assign magical qualities to them.

The "intelligent" refers to the marketing person that thought it up.

The AWD in the RDX is a FWD that "intelligently" decides when to send some power to the rear wheels. It doesn't do any of the SH-AWD stuff of other Acuras.

The RDX AWD system is a decent adaptation of an inexpensive FWD based system intended to be marketed to people who will never "really" need AWD. It will reduce front wheel spin in wet roads where the FWD version would "chirp" the tires. It will provide additional snow traction if used with the correct tires.

The "intelligence" of the system cannot overcome the laws of physics and make the car steer or brake better.

RDX10

If you look a few posts up, you will see that I made the exact same argument. Or how these companies say their AWD system runs in 100% front wheel drive to save gas, but they also state somewhere else that it "anticipates wheel spin before it happens". How can the system do both at the same time when the only time the rear wheels activate is when the front wheels slip not before? Someone brought up that due to throttle lag, it is technically engaging the awd clutch before power is sent there...that is not how the marketing people make it sound.

Regardless, if OP wants to enjoy a false sense of security, then he should feel free to go right ahead and do so. My posts are not intended to attack anyone, they are intended to try and shed light on the marketing scams these companies make.

dirleton

"anticipates wheel spin before it happens".


Can anyone cite an example of this claim being made. Not four or five, just one will do.

RDX10

Are you asking for Acura rdx specific or any part time AWD system specific? I wasn't speaking Acura specific when I said that claim, I meant in general for these types of systems.

snorf

I haven't seen that with any Honda product, but Ford does mention that:


New Ford Focus Anticipates Spin-Outs

Compact model predicts problems before they occur.

yesrdx

Sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

Here's a cool video of someone trying to lose traction. Pretty cool to see the AWD in action and its limitations:

yesrdx

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning this. Nobody said AWD helps steer or brake better than FWD?

yesrdx

If you bothered to read my posts, you'll see that my basis is per their description of their system. I couldn't care less if they called it "MAGIC UNICORN AWD." I've simply stated Honda/Acura's description of what their AWD system does. If you want to explain why their system is incapable of doing what they claim to do, great! If you want to resort to making fun of their AWD system name, it's a bit childish, don't you think?

yesrdx

It's in one of Acura's brochures. In case you missed my previous post:

http://pa.motorwebs.com/acura/brochures/RDX.pdf

JACN

Jesus they sound like idiots. I also don't like the fact they're trying to find faults where there aren't any: "Look at this... 1 2 3 4 5. That's 10. Too many headlights" WTF? This is a problem for off-roading?

JACN

I have no plans on doing this whatsover! If I wanted and off-road vehicle, I would've bought a Jeep.

I just wanted the AWD so I can climb snow covered hills as I'm a big fan of skiing. I plan on driivng it to Mount Washington, or more Acurately... Wildcat in New Hampshire.

RDX10

Don't even give these guys any attention. I don't understand how they still get cars to review. I think the new jewel eye led's are stunning. Seriously, without them Acura's cars would be banished to snore ville.

hovbuild

What's Better for the Snow: A FWD Model with Winter Tires or an AWD Model with Regular Tires?

Comfy

Thanks for that video. I've been thinking about the same question.

yesrdx

I think the answer is well known. No need to think about it (snow tires > AWD). Unfortunately, a Winter setup doesn't make sense in the South where it hardly ever snows, but it does periodically rain.

dirleton

I suppose there's no need for a "Winter setup" if there's no winter to speak of.

ceb

Not quite correct. All it takes is one freak snowfall to cause way more damage than the cost of winter tires. Remember the snow and ice that paralyzed Atlanta.

If you realize that all-season tires are really no-season tires then you are ahead of the game.

This doesn't mean that everybody should go out and buy winter tires - but - it does mean that you need to recognize that maybe you shouldn't venture out that day.

Don't forget that winter tires will not only keep you out of a ditch, but that they may help you avoid some idiot driving way too fast for conditions on improper tires.

There is a reason that some Canadian provinces and most of Europe have mandated winter (not all season) tires for this time of year.

If you do a European Delivery on Audi or Mercedes at this time of year, they will rent you a set of winter tires for the duration of your stay to keep you legal and safe.

JACN

In Canada, where we have winters... you know... because we live in Igloos here, all 2016 RDX models are AWD. It might just be a marketing thing where we Canadians automatically think cars with AWD are better for winter.

But there is a false sense of security going on. I've seen many AWD SUVs in the ditch because drivers get too confident. I've seen a lot of them without winter tires too.

dirleton

Nobody stocks FWD around here (Minnesota).

RDX10

I do agree that winter tires should be installed in the winter. I however do not agree that all season tires have no purpose. Winter tires wear out ridiculously fast in the summer, but summer tires also wear out fast in the summer. This is where all seasons come in. My personal preference is to go winter in winter and all season in the summer.

I want to note that this will be the first year for me in ever to have winter tires. I have always always had all season tires and never had issues at all thankfully. This time I am going to install a set of michelin x-ice 2 tires. Brand new and can't wait to see what it is like! But it just absolutely sucks, we have had no snow yet, nothing, literally can still see grass here, that is absurd!! I am worried about installing too early and having them wear stupid fast.

ceb

It isn't just a Canadian thing. It may be a North American thing.

Most Audi cars sold in NA are AWD (quattro). More than half of all MBs sold outside of Florida/LA/GA are AWD (4Matic) and the RLX sold virtually nothing until they started with AWD.

AWD cars are a very tiny fraction of cars sold elsewhere.

We don't comprehend the importance of tires.