rbreeze

Acura's Feb. 12th press release states the following regarding revisions they've made to the all-wheel drive system on the '16 RDX:

.... Additionally, the RDX's all-wheel-drive system - AWD with Intelligent Control - has been tuned for greater rear torque bias to further enhance dynamic stability and all-weather performance.

Acura's statement suggests that there have been issues - experienced by at least some owners of 2013-15 RDX AWD's - of insufficient torque transfer to the rear when contending with certain road conditions - which primarily relates to winter driving.
I discovered a thread in this forum today that discusses AWD issues on the 2nd gen RDX.
> Link to thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...wd-bad-920219/

I wonder what the maximum percentage of torque transfer to the rear is for the '13-'15 RDX AWD? I recall reading somewhere a figure of 25%.
And more importantly.. I wonder what the enhanced maximum percentage of torque transfer to the rear will be for the updated '16 RDX AWD?

I am reminded of the video on YouTube (embedded below) that compares the performance of the Audi Quattro AWD system (on a Q5) against the BMW iDrive AWD system (on an X3), with both vehicles negotiating an incline while on a simulated slippery road surface. The Quattro system exhibited a total fail. I wonder how the RDX AWD (a '13-'15 model or the enhanced '16) would do in this particular test? Probably very well, since the RDX AWD is heavily front torque biased. The test configuration would likely have to change to properly test how the RDX AXD deals with slippery challenges.

Joe Las Vegas

I thought the Quattro was a great awd system, it sucked, BMW was great, I bet the SHAWD of Acura would beat all tests, that thing is great, both axles have LSD's and the rear has torque transferring from side to side via LSD, not by braking the spinning wheel, that's what you get when manufacturers try to save money, we get crap. Nowadays, everything is controlled with braking with their useless traction control, it's nowhere as efficient as a limited slip diff.

ceb

In November 2006, the German magazine Auto Motor und Sport reviewed the (then new) RL with SH-AWD against the A6, the BMW 5 series xi and the E350 4matic. The focus was on the AWD systems. 4matic beat the others, quattro was second, BMW third and SH-AWD was dead last.

JohnEnglish

The Audi system is actually really good. It's just that it's mechanical instead of electronic so it requires a few rotations of the spinning wheels to lock up the clutch packs. That why they only have the woman give it gas for a moment before she stops. Otherwise it would have locked up the clutch packs and the Audi would have gone up the ramp.

rbreeze

^ John, thanks for that info. Interesting 'debunk' video! I guess it was produced by Audi operatives sometime after BMW released their video.
It's surprising how much wheel spin has to occur with Audi's Quattro system before the clutch packs lock up. It's always been my understanding that the best all-wheel drives systems allow for little to no visible/perceivable wheel spin.
Based on what I'm seeing in both of these videos I'm not sure whether I would to have Audi's Quattro AWD system - especially in winter!

FYI - The electronically-controlled full-time AWD system in my '11 CTS is excellent, in that there is no perceivable wheel spin on any wheels when road conditions are poor (snowy or icy) - the system is that fast to adapt /shift torque. The Borg Warner active transfer case in the CTS uses a clutch pack which allows an infinitely variable front/rear ratio with the ability to transfer 100% of available torque to either the front axle or the rear axle - or anything in between. The system is continually monitoring and adjusts the clutch pack based on the input of sensors such as the throttle, steering wheel angle, yaw sensor, wheel speed sensors, engine torque, transmission gear state, etc. The transfer case in the CTS is controlled in such a way as to apportion a torque ratio of 25% front / 75% rear during steady state driving (when negotiating good/normal road conditions). I have all-season 19 inch tires on the car and never have a problem getting around, regardless of road conditions /what the weather's doing.
How does the 2nd gen RDX AWD perform when the worst of winter hits?

rbreeze

Attention Admins: Why do you allow only 15 minutes for forum members to edit their posts? Can this time limit not be increased to 60 minutes or longer?
Please consider a modification to the system.
/R

HotRodW

That's wheel spin on rollers. Having owned a variety of AWD vehicles, including a Subaru and an xDrive BMW, I assure you quattro is about as good as it gets in snow. (That's real quattro, not the A3/Q3's Haldex "quattro".) The xDrive allows more tail out shenanigans, so it can be a lot of fun, but quattro offers more security. If I were buying a car for my mother to drive in the snow, it would probably be something with quattro and outfitted with Blizzaks.

rbreeze

Rod, there are certainly many different all-wheel drive designs/configurations out there. I really like how the AWD system performs on my car - I have no complaints. Given you've owned a variety of AWD vehicles I'll take your word for it that "true Quattro" is about as good as it gets in snow. These special trials (wheel spin on rollers) probably don't reflect most real-world situations. It's surprising though to see/learn how Quattro is designed to operate, in that considerable wheel spin is apparently allowed to occur at first before torque transfer takes place.
By the way.. what AWD system is on your VW Touareg? Is it Quattro?

/Richard

HotRodW

Yes, although they don't advertise it as quattro for obvious reasons, the Touareg has the Q7's quattro system. It is permanent AWD with torque biased slightly to the rear with a 60:40 split. Because power is normally distributed to all four wheels, spinning the tires is no easy task even in snow. You really have to try in most conditions. I can induce oversteer when cornering in snow, but it takes a little work with stability and traction on. The Q5 has the same torque split, but it seems to require even more work to get its tail to wag. The Q5 does understeer a bit more, however. With snow tires both have been stellar in the snow.

pittdoc

as a owner of the q5, Im not that impressed with the Quattro in the snow...its a good system, but its not one that provides significant advantages in the snow over the others (we have had or have Murano, Cayenne, AWD Sienna, rX350, forester)...the advantage quattro has over the RDX or the Haldex of a XC60 is more of handling around corners and stuff..I have brand new ecopia hl 422 on it, and in 6 inches the q5 was slipping and sliding.

it all comes down to snow tires, nothing beats snow tires...and if you are going to have snow tires, the difference between a quattro, haldex, 4matic, xdrive is negligible in the snow and i would argue height clearance becomes a important factor at that point for those in the snow belt.

also, there is no such thing as a true all season tire, including those that have the snow symbol (goodyear fortera) and nokian wrg3...their performance in the snow is not as good as just a snow tire.

just my 2 cents
and I am waiting for this new RDX to hit the dealer so I can test drive

rbreeze

^ Pittdoc - interesting comments regarding your own impressions of Quattro on your Audi Q5. It would be good to see some solid test results from a reliable automotive publication - testing the various brands of SUV/CUV - as to determine which AWD system/configuration performs the absolute best in true winter conditions (with significant amounts of snow and with sheer ice in places). I think it's safe to say that all AWD systems are not equal, particularly when it comes to handling winter driving conditions.
If it wasn't for winter I wouldn't need AWD and would likely not pay to have it. But I live where there's snow for 1/3rd of the year so AWD is a must.

pittdoc

i just dont think a true apple to apple comparison can be done...it depends on the tires, the driver skill, where they are testing, etc.

AWD system are not equal...so why worry about which one is the best when you can pretty much level the playing field by getting Blizzak?

rbreeze

Below is an embedded link to a video of the Canadian premiere of the 2016 Acura RDX at the 2015 CIAS (Toronto Auto Show) on YouTube.
The video production isn't the greatest but there are a few decent views of the '16 RDX.
It's looking more and more like I'll be buying a new RDX in the spring.

HotRodW

I respectfully disagree. Going from a Murano with Blizzaks to the Q5 with Blizzaks was a real eye opener for us. By its very nature, the quattro's permanent AWD simply has to perform better than the slip and grip systems. I agree that winter tires are a must if you drive in snow on a regular basis, but a good AWD system takes foul weather security to another level. quattro, Haldex, 4Matic and xDrive are all very good, as is SH-AWD. Unfortunately, the RDX's system is not on the same level.

It's interesting that you seem to understand and promote the benefits of dedicated winter tires, and yet you admit to having mediocre LRR all-seasons on your Audi. Maybe you don't see much snow and don't feel you need winter tires, but are you really surprised you had grip issues in 6" of snow?

bzb123

Anyone notice it looked like the RDX in the video had front led turn signal/ hazard lights(about 1:40)? I'm surprised they didn't make more of a big deal about this if it is true. Can anyone confirm?

rbreeze

^ Yes, I did notice the brief illumination of the front LED turn signal/hazard lights (amber-colored light pipes) at about 1:40 in the video. Nice!
You're right - I'm also surprised they didn't make more of a big deal about this. The front & rear LED lighting on the '16 RDX looks great.







/R

corduroygt

75/25 in the 2013-15 models, 60/40 in 2016+

nut854

Is that enough of a change to get much better snow driving?

Joe Las Vegas

I thought it was 50/50 now.

corduroygt

It's in this video:

kfhughes

One of the things I noticed about the interior (you can see it in the Canada premiere video around 2:56) is the front air vents are chromed. I recalled some TLX owners complaining that this caused reflections in the windows when trying to look at the side mirrors:

https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...mirror-916371/

Rocket_man

They are satin. The reflections will depend on the angle between the vent, window/mirror, and driver. Since the RDX is a little different from the TLX, it is hard to say if the same thing will happen or not. Acura did make a black vent and replace them as a warranty item for owners that had a problem with them.

guytdt

Is it the same engine in 2016? I saw a few articles mentioned NEW 3.5 v6 engine used in 2016 rdx.

rbreeze

^ It's a new 3.5-liter engine. Excerpt from Acura's 2/12/2015 press release:

The 2016 RDX gets an important performance boost courtesy of its new 3.5-liter SOHC i-VTEC V-6 engine with Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) cylinder deactivation technology. Peak horsepower and torque output are up—279 (+6 hp) and 252 lb.-ft. (+1 lb.-ft.), respectively, while sporting a broader torque curve for more immediate and powerful acceleration response—right where it counts. Variable Cylinder Management™ allows for deactivation of three of the engine's six cylinders under light engine loads, helping the more powerful 2016 RDX increase its highway EPA fuel-economy ratings by 1 mpg, rising to 19/28mpg for AWD models and 20/29mpg for FWD models (city/highway). Driving refinement is further enhanced by new active front and rear engine mounts, updates to the steering control system and increased suspension mount stiffness. Additionally, the RDX's all-wheel-drive system – AWD with Intelligent Control – has been tuned for greater rear torque bias to further enhance dynamic stability and all-weather performance.

> Link to Acura's full press release: Acura | Press Releases Article | Acura.com

blacktsxwagon

I might be reaching here, but does the RDX on the Acura website look like it has rear door keyless access buttons?

Comfy

Wow...nice catch.

nut854

The 2016 RDX page says that it includes an "intuitive dual-screen On-Demand Multi-Information Display (ODMD)". Is this the same infotainment system that's been in the other Acura's for awhile? Or is this some sort of updated system? I hear lots of complaining from friends who have the 2014/2015 infotainment system so I'm trying to see if this is the same one.

kareshi

Wish they have panoramic moonroof

MisterZDX

Nice feature to have, but in a cold climate like yours it can be a pain.

kareshi

well it can be closed, with two layers it should be fine.

Acura is still behind on features. Panoramic sunroof is one, although they start to introduce it to the 2016 Pilot now.

they should also make power folding mirror as standard.

blacktsxwagon

Same basic set up. Will likely be identical to the system currently in the ILX (i.e. more hard climate/seat buttons that the TLX). Some reviews are saying the ILX system is snappier than the TLX but does not include haptic feedback.

MisterZDX

What I meant was the creaking sound it makes when being driven in extreme cold, a common problem with the ZDX. Here's a thread from the ZDX board discussing this. Perhaps this may be one of the reasons why Acura never introduced another model with a pano roof after the ZDX.

https://acurazine.com/forums/acura-z...y-roof-902563/

CoachRick

Not sure what the pano roof is for. Does one crane one's neck to see the 'back' half? Is it for the rear-seat passengers? Is it to weather and fade the rear seat leather to match the front?

I can't think of a single time I really wanted the roof to be bigger in our RDX, XC60, XC70, RX330, V70, Tribute...

I will say the steel crank roof of the '73 Capri was pretty small, as was the steel crank roof of my '80 Volvo GT

Rocket_man

I agree, and in hot areas like Houston I'd rather not even have a sun roof. A pano roof would make the car unbearably hot in the summer. My wife ordered her Mini without the sun roof and it is great, lots more head room and no heat through the sun roof to deal with. I'm sure a car with a pano roof is also heavier due to the added structure and weight of the glass. I sat in an MKZ with that pano sunroof and nearly hit my head on the added structure they put in the roof. Must have taken 2 inches off the head room there.

rbreeze

In addition to the upcoming 2016 Acura RDX w/ Advance Pkg (to be called Elite Pkg in Canada), the other vehicle I'll be considering in my purchase decision is the refreshed 2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T w/ Ultimate Pkg. The updated '16 Santa Fe Sport (SFS) is expected to have revised front & rear styling, and the top package will likely have additional features that the current '15 model lacks, namely 6-way or 8-way power passenger seat, forward collision warning, lane departure warning, adaptive cruise control and high beam assist. Detail regarding the '16 SFS should be released in April or May and vehicles should start arriving at dealers by early summer. While the SFS is not a luxury branded vehicle it competes very well with the RDX on many (most?) fronts.
Car & Driver recently reviewed /instrument-tested a 2015 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T Ultimate AWD and came away impressed /pleasantly surprised with the vehicle. (Link to web article is below). That the fully equipped '16 SFS will have an MSRP that's at least $7000 less (Canadian prices) than the fully equipped '16 RDX certainly has me interested. We'll see how the comparisons shape up (the official ones and my own) in 2-3 months time.

> Link to C & D February 2015 test review of '15 SFS: 2015 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport AWD 2.0T Test Review Car and Driver

guytdt

If you do the 2015, then RDX is just an eco box and santa fe is luxury. It has heated steering wheel, cool/heat front seat and heated seat for backseat too which only avail in luxury car and many more.


But 2016 RDX is a different story. I take RDX even though it saves me $7K. I just find it hard to like Hyundai badge and wonder about reliability of its turbo 2.0 engine. But cannot deny SFS is a good competitor. New Murano is nice too, but price range is closed to RDX and car is too long for me.

rbreeze

^ I'm not considering the new Nissan Murano, mainly for reasons of excessive length and its polarizing 'love it or hate it' styling. It happens that I don't like the looks of the new Murano.
The 2016 model-year luxury /near-luxury CUV that my wife and I want to buy will have an overall vehicle length of between 181-185 inches. The RDX's length is 183.5 in. and the Santa Fe Sport's length is 184.6 in, so both vehicles are perfect for us in terms of length and overall size.

As I think of it I am becoming less and less concerned with the brand badge (as well as badge bragging rights), and I'm beginning to view my upcoming new daily 'be-all' crossover vehicle as more of an appliance. Having said that, our new be-all CUV has to be good looking/stylish, well equipped (with all or most of the latest tech & safety features) and reliable.
Typically we don't keep our vehicles longer than 3 years. I don't have any concerns with the SFS's 2.0 turbocharged engine other than the fact that its fuel mileage is very ordinary /nothing fantastic, however unlike the RDX this particular engine prefers to sip on regular grade fuel.

guytdt

Anyone want to guess rdx with advanced package will cost?
I'm afraid it will close to 45k which make it about same price as rx350 with nav/premium/comfort package as it is discounted a lot due to coming new generation.

MisterZDX

Yes, even with a 3.7L V6 and 300 HP my ZDX still does not feel as fast because of all the added weight.

rbreeze

^ I'm guessing the price in the U.S. for a '16 RDX AWD with Advance Pkg will be close to US$45K, with the price in Canada for the same vehicle (with equivalent Elite Pkg) being around CA$49K. I suppose we'll learn about exact pricing by around the end of April.

As an aside.. I've just discovered that the '13-'15 RDX is equipped with a "prop rod" for the hood rather a hydraulic strut arrangement. What's up with that on a luxury-branded vehicle? The non-luxury branded '13-'15 Hyundai SF Sport is equipped with twin hydraulic struts for its hood. This item isn't a biggie of course, but it is surprising for the Acura RDX. I see the MDX has a strut arrangement for its hood.