AcuraguyOH

If you guys run it hard before the tranny has time to warm up, the 3rd clutch won't get enough fluid to shift fast enough (if you live next to an on ramp and merge first thing in the morning). Then it will burn out the clutch.

Zapata

This can't be the explaination for everything. I let me car warm up for a good 5-10 mins or until the temp gauge is half way in the middle and even i feel weird shifts.

AcuraguyOH

But have you had your trans replaced multiple times???

Zapata

ok no not yet atleast. I know there are some on this board that will wait 30secs and then start to drive but I never abuse my baby like that, EVER.

Zapata

how long do we wait??

QuickSilver

AcuraGuyOH,

Seems to me if this were really the issue, Acura could have saved itself a number of warranty claims, not to mention widespread customer dissatisfaction, by communicating such a simple fix through a TSB.

Is your recommendation based on supposition, experimentation, or input from informed sources? I suspect supposition....


QuickSilver
'01 CL-S (No Mods)

ftlaudnole

Is this "solution" directed towards owners living in cold-weather climates only? Living in South Florida (Temp 70-95 year-round), I wouldn't think that my car needs time to "warm up".

Fabvsix

I live in Northern california. I currently have 47,000 miles +++ and every morning when I drive AFTER letting the engine warm up, dude the tranny warms up while driving, NOT sitting idling in your garage, I have to baby it for at least a mile, and it vibrates and that's been since day one ! After the vib's goes away, she's ready to go.......I've not WASTED my time with Acura, cause it will go no where.........

Nicky Pass

I drive it easy for the first 5-10 min before I ever romp on it!!

flipwhip

driving right away is ok as long as u dont rev high (above 2.5k - 3k)...thats what i have been told atleast....(i tihnk it may have said sometinhg like that in the manual too)

Scooter

BUMP!!!

Eric, can u shed some light on this???

this sounds like it makes sense

3.2cl-s

I know when i had my 00' GTS if the temp guage wasn't up two clicks then you couldn't go over 6k rpms....which was vvtl-i, to protect the engine. I haven't had any problems yet, but i really do need to let my engine warm up some before hitting it so hard.

EricL

My opinions follow:

Well, they did take a pass on using a "stand-alone" cooler, and used the intercooler that works as an ATF "warmer" and "cooler."

It takes me 2 minutes just to get turned around in my garage and long driveway. The temp gauge is already up (but, that doesn't mean the engine oil and/or transmission fluid are up to temp.) It really takes 5-15 minutes to get the car's engine and tranny to the "correct" operating temperature.

I know that the ATF warmer WILL help with gas mileage; the ATF should be around 140-175 degree F (depending on make and model of car.). There is a reason that the B&M ATF cooler diverts the ATF around the its cooling coils when it’s cold and viscous

So...

1. I'm quite sure that it is not a good idea to WOT the car after 30-seconds of driving.

2. I am wondering if the lack of "communication" from Acura (no detailed calls or questions of the owner) could possibly add to a lack of advisories from them regarding "driving habits/patterns" that might not be good for the transmission (perhaps their marketing/PR guys would think it would be an admission of shame/guilt/etc if they asked for some feedback...)

3. The cold stuff that all of you have mentioned could be important. I also think that some "types" of driving "up hills", cold weather, etc, etc could be very helpful info to eliminate or locate problems that are not problems caused by design flaws or by quality control issues.

Here is an excerpt from a SUBARU link (regarding cold operating):

"...4EAT COLD WEATHER OPERATION (11/96)

Now that the colder weather is returning to many parts of the country, we though thtis would be a good time to remind you of this information.

The 4EAT has an automatic transmission fluid (ATF) temperature sensor. When the ATF temperature is below a certain temperature, the transmission control unit (TCU) will not lock up the torque converter. If it's even colder, it will not allow an upshift to 4th gear. This is a normal occurence and should not be diagnosed as an operational problem. This condition is usually noticed by the owner first thing in the morning or any time the vehicle has been sitting for several hours exposed to cold temperatures. Once the ATF temperature rises sufficiently, the transmission will operate with all its functions.

These normal events may appear abnormal to the customer. They may not remember last winter or may have only had their car since it's been warm. It's important for you to remember these normal operations. Also, remember that it is ATF temperature that determines whether or not the transmission gives you 4th gear or locks up the converter, not ENGINE temperature. Therefore, the temperature guage indicator on the dash has no bearing on the transmission actions. Under the right combination of temperature and driving conditions, it could take 10 miles or more to achieve full transmission operating temperatures...."

JRock

And yet none of this has anything to do with bearings wearing prematurely or whatever the cause of our "special" tranny problem is.

This is just a solution to people who don't know shit about auto trannies. It's common sense you need to the let transmission and engine oil warm up for a good 5-10 minutes before you push the car. This might stop the idiot-tranny-failures that every company deals with, but it has nothing to do with the epidemic problem Acura's auto tranny has.

EricL

1. If you have a set of "compromised" diff bearings, it think it's only a matter of time.

2. If you happen to have bearings and parts that (are still a bit undersized), but get a bit hot, the ability to cool down hot-spots will help. (As to the “inevitable”, I think you’re probably right – if the bearings are “shedding”, they are going to fail regardless)

3. As far as keeping this unit cool (under all conditions), this tranny needs all the help it can get. (Leaving in the factory intercooler with the appropriate additional ATF cooler should still allow the fluid to warm-up to proper operating temp in 5-15 minutes.)

So, anything the accelerates the wear on the clutches is very bad (re WOT while COLD)

And

Driving in stop-and-go traffic with very little cooling air and torque converter working 99% of the time also makes for some issues.

And

The calcs that show that the heat rejected by the transmission is so high that even Scalbert's B&M would have trouble with a dyno based 20% loss of energy (output as 99% heat energy [the other 1% as acoustic, and other energy forms]) under WOT, and would point to the "help"/"effectiveness" of a transmission coolers for those transmissions that don't have completely screwed-up torque converters and diff carrier bearings.

And

It is interesting that Comptech (who talks to Acura/Honda) is recommending a tranny cooler and Redline synthetic (D4) for the cars with the supercharger.


--->

I've said this in a couple of places ---> Acura could save face by offering a tranny cooler as a factory mod/option for people in hot climates, etc (and clearly indicate that the warranty is NOT changed by adding it).

JRock

Dude, I'm not bashing tranny coolers - heck I'm getting one put in tomorrow. My point was simply that telling people not to abuse their car/tranny when it's still cold is common sense and has little to do with the PROBLEM our tranny has. That common sense is NOT the solution to OUR SPECIFIC tranny problem, just some common sense for EVERY auto tranny.

I think I already made that clear.

EricL

Yes, I would agree...

Some of the same points and issues get tossed around and around, and some of the issues get “lost”. IMO, some clarity wouldn’t hurt.

1. The cooler is not a panacea, but for transmissions with bearings that are not "screwed from day 1".

2. If the diff bearings are "crumbling", the transmission is going to the tranny doctors (regardless of add-ons).

3. RE: Common sense... Well, that's sometimes I'm not sure that's a commodity that is all that common. I've met people who think that once the water temp is "normal", they are ready for their day's "Fast and Furious" action

So, if you are one of the "lucky" ones with a set of bearings, torque converter, clutches, solenoids, & PCM that are not defective, there is a good chance of getting some extra miles out of your tranny due to the cooler.


The other issue that I have really though about, is the issue of "spot heating" -- when something is a bit undersized, like a bearing, it will tend to be overloaded and get pretty hot. This additional heat sure doesn't help the part to "stay together". So, it may turn out that your tranny cooler helps in more ways than just keeping the fluid from oxidizing too soon. (Who knows for sure, but...)

I would be interested in seeing what you run in to with the installation. Now that Scalbert is off doing something else, it would be nice to have the "cooler" install for the transmission "documented".

I am still ruminating over the use of the Redline ATF.


So, feel free to leave comments, questions, or suggestions about your progress with the cooler (good and bad) here and have you had a chance to talk with Comptech about their cooler experiences?

cnatra

Scalbert sell his CL-S ??

QuickSilver

All,

The real solution to the tranny problem is simple: ditch this POS and trade-up to a G35!

Unlike an extended warranty or a tranny cooler, the solution I propose has the advantage of guaranteeing no more sleepless nights wondering when the next major vehicle system failure will occur.

Best of all, you'll still be able to see the CL-S on occasion, in your rear view mirror.


QuickSilver
'03 G35

mattg

sorry quicksilver, but (imo) the g35 is ugly as sin, i35 is where it's at. thanks for the :ghey: opinion though.

mattg

jrock, when did your tranny go out?

bdheilig

ok, that is about the wildest explanation that i heard as far as trannys go. I realize that letting the car warm up and the valves adjust to the temp is normal but this has nothing to do with the transmission failures from frequent cold starts. Look at some of the other explanations i think that they are a little more accurate as far a reason is concerned.

bryant

EricL

Wild -- don't know...

The transmission “cooler” (that little hockey-puck sized INTERCOOLER) is called a "warmer" and a "cooler" (see Service Guide for 2001 CLS) I don't know that there are any large numbers of trannies failing (from that very reason), but it would certainly be "bad practice" to have the clutch packs swimming in thick and gooey ATF. There are some places -- in winter -- where the cold start-up temps can be pretty low...

As far as "nothing to do", well, it's an opinion. As long as you guys don't get to rip the trannies apart, I guess we can all play "arm chair transmission builders" -- hey?

IMO, there is more to getting at problems that out-of-hand discounting of "funny" ideas. I remember one member (on another forum) that would have probably mandated public executions for anyone suggesting the possibility of "overheated" transmission fluid due to the better thermal transfer characteristics of a fluid-to-fluid intercooler vs. a fluid-to-air intercooler…

JimBob

1)It is this really a common problem? (Let's say that means more than 10% of Auto owners)
2)It there a detailed transmission cooler install guide anywhere?(the ones here have pictures of parts and tubes and some tips but nothing definitive)
3)Is there anyway to get word from Acura about this?(not the dealerships but an actual Acura rep.)
4)Do I really need to sit idle for 5-10 minutes before leaving the parking lot?
5)Will any other transmission work in this car? (okay, j/k on this one)
6)Have people with tranny problems been actively complaining?(Acura itself, NHTSA, dealerships, whoever else?)

EricL

Common problem? Don’t know. An early survey (pre tranny problem forum) has a failure (and/or report rate) of around 2%. AS an aside, the argument could go on for weeks as to “who” is part of the forum. I do know people that are in their 30s and much older who have driven the car nicely and had a replacement.

There is now the detailed DIY cooler install posted inside of this section’s “link center”:

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=74275

Look under “Tranny Cooler Install Threads and Notes” – OK?

I’ve gotten into trouble by reporting the “tid-bits” that I heard (or got sent) via a buddy who knows a buddy at Honda/Acura. The stories seem to “morph” with time… (very, very long story).

If you’re talking about someone at Acura “coming clean” with a member – see the sentence above…

As for the sitting at idle, I sit about 1-2 minutes (it takes that long to reverse the car around and close the garage door)… Opinions vary. I would take it easy on the full-throttle power and shifting until the car was warmed up (not to be confused with the water gauge “just” coming up to “normal” operating temp).

Well, there has been plenty of complaint noises mentioned around here. There have been a few people that said they were going to:

1. Get a class-action law suite together (don’t know too much about this or the current status).
2. Contact the NHTSA – the “unexpected” downshift (AKA surprise braking trick) is a good start for action in my mind… (This seems to be a "recent" report, but...
3. I’m pretty sure if you look around you will find a large variation in responses from dealers, zone reps, Acura Care, and so on…