Note the NHSTA would not state if the current models are in compliance with federal safety law's.

[b]It is interesting read if you have had your transmission lock up ...just so coincidental that noone had have heard of or expierienced transmission lock-ups and then you READ things like this that make you go hmmm?[b]


Note this is for reading purpose only,nothing being implied here,simply an interesting read



NHTSA Puts Brakes On Honda's 'Idle Stop' Transmission Technology, According to NetCompliance Web Site

WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 15, 2001--The Federal government has temporarily put the brakes on American Honda Motor Co., Inc.'s next generation of ``Idle Stop'' automatic transmission systems for gasoline engines, and expressed overall safety concerns over ``sudden lurching forward or backward'' in vehicles with similar technology.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) declined to acknowledge whether Honda's transmissions are in compliance with federal safety laws, according to an agency document discovered and posted on the web sites of both NetCompliance, Inc., (www.netcompliance.com) and its subsidiary web site, Gasstationcompliance.com (www.gasstationcompliance.com).

NetCompliance, Inc. is a Washington, DC-based Internet provider of ``paperless'' compliance solutions, safety equipment and online worker training programs, delivered via the Internet to companies regulated by the Federal government.

Gasstationcompliance.com, its subsidiary, offers software modules that enable station managers to track thousands of chemical products through electronic Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) folders and also provides the first commercial system to tailor web-based training by station location, employee and chemical.

In an Idle Stop transmission, a vehicle's gasoline engine will shut off when the driver stops the vehicle with its brake, and will automatically restart itself when the driver subsequently removes his foot from the brake.

Honda said its new technology will reduce exhaust emissions when the vehicle is normally stopped and idling and ``be a safe and efficient method to conserve fuel,'' according to a letter to NHTSA from William R. Willen, Honda's Managing Counsel, Product Regulatory Office, Torrance, CA.

NHTSA said it ``will defer an opinion'' on whether Idle Stop automatic transmissions in gasoline engines meet safety requirements until Honda makes more information available to the agency. But NHTSA did conclude the Idle Stop transmission for Honda's hybrid electric vehicles does meet automotive safety compliance standards based on information provided by the automaker.

NHTSA also said that it is considering beginning a rulemaking to address this new technology and update its motor vehicle safety laws.

NHTSA also issued a concern that this new technology must address the possibility of a sudden lurching forward of a vehicle in an automatic restart instead of the gradual creeping forward found in current transmission designs.

NHTSA said that besides Honda and Toyota Motor Corporation ``other vehicle manufacturers are currently designing vehicles with gasoline or diesel engine and hybrid propulsion plants that operate differently but attempt to achieve improved fuel economy.'' NHTSA said it expects these other vehicles . . . ``will have safety features that prevent sudden lurching forward or backward when the gasoline engine is restarted. Such lurching is a concern because it could result in a crash.''

``NetCompliance and its subsidiary, Gasstationcompliance.com, have posted this NHTSA interpretation to keep the driving public, the worldwide automobile industry and those companies regulated by NHTSA, current with the latest regulatory opinions of the federal government,'' said NetCompliance CEO Krish Krishnan. ``Our web sites are providing our customers and visitors with up-to-the-minute compliance information on government actions and opinions which is not found anywhere else,'' he added.

In the past year, NetCompliance has broken news of major federal government actions affecting the nation and its businesses, in the areas of air bags, auto certification, retail advertising on tires, e-signature compliance on employee training certificates, and government ethics.

NetCompliance uses its eComply(TM) technology to allow businesses to meet federal and state regulations using an integrated information commerce suite of compliance and training modules, delivered by subscription via the Internet.

NetCompliance provides companies with a better, cheaper, and faster way for businesses to determine their compliance needs, meet training requirements, obtain specialized products and services, and manage compliance-related information to regulatory agencies. NetCompliance is a member of the US Congressional Internet Caucus.

Copies of the NHTSA and Honda letters are available at www.netcompliance.com.

Contact:

NetCompliance
Michael J. Volpe, 703/534-5022,
mvolpe@netcompliance.com

 

So we arent safe ?

 

Well us being safe driving with the current model transmission has been an ongoing debate.so this is not NEW NEW'S . I just felt it was interesting to see this publiclly posted bit of information about the IDLE transmission that was not approved ...I just really hate to think of the little changes to these transmission's becuase of failure's have made us like lab rats. IF the NHSTA won't reveal whther or not the transmission's are in federal safety compliance realm ,who will tell us?

 

Hmmm I thought the NHSTA did not approve of this idea ,but in reading this from 9-17-05 ,it appears that somehow it is allowed ?

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...smission&hl=en





When planning the current Accord Sedan, engineers were looking to put traditional Accord quality and reliability into a new package filled with more emotional appeal, and to employ sedan styling similar to popular luxury European sport sedans. The 2005 Accord Hybrid Sedan adds to this foundation design cues intended to help it achieve top-of-class fuel economy and to improve the car's aerodynamics and reduce its drag coefficient to a slippery 0.29. These additions include a rear decklid spoiler, lightweight 16" aluminum alloy aerodynamic wheels. Additionally, lightweight aluminum was used in the Accord Hybrid's hood, bumper frames and rear suspension knuckles, helping reduce overall weight.

Powertrain

In balancing the seemingly contradictory goals of high fuel efficiency and high performance, Honda combined the 3rd generation IMA system with the all-new Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) system that alone generates substantial fuel savings when full engine power is not needed (as in highway cruising and deceleration). Working together, the two systems provide exceptional fuel efficiency benefits when the engine is not at full capacity, but mid-sized class-leading power when the car is at full throttle. Overall, the VCM system helps to maximize highway fuel economy while the IMA system helps to maximize city fuel economy.

The engine used on the Honda Accord Hybrid Sedan is primarily the same as that of the Accord V-6, but with a few modifications to save weight and to allow for the use of Honda's VCM system. Foremost among these changes is the implementation of Honda's advanced i-VTEC system in place of the VTEC system of the Accord EX V-6.

Without any help from the electric IMA system, this 3.0L engine provides 240 hp and 217 lb.-ft of torque, but utilizes some lighter weight materials than the original version used in the standard Accord EX V-6.

First introduced to North America in the all-new 2005 Odyssey minivan, Honda's innovative Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) system has now been engineered to maximize fuel economy in the Accord's 3.0L i-VTEC V-6 in concert with the IMA system. It works by monitoring speed and throttle action to determine if full engine power is required, if not - as in steady cruising or minor acceleration, the rear bank of three cylinders is deactivated. Further efficiency is achieved when the fuel injection system cuts fuel to the three active cylinders when the car is decelerating or braking - a feature similarly employed in most Honda vehicles.

Additional efficiencies are gained by the use of lightweight magnesium for certain engine parts, and the Accord Hybrid Sedan's engine incorporates a new engine head to manage the VCM system. A new airflow sensor and a 2-axis belt drive with an auto tensioner help to maintain maximum efficiency and prevent power losses due to friction.

IMA technology

The 3rd generation of Honda's Integrated Motor Assist system - which incorporates an ultra-thin electric motor (68mm) mounted between the gasoline engine and automatic transmission - is the largest and most efficient Honda has produced. The motor produces 10 percent more horsepower assist (12 kW total) than the Civic Hybrid and 26 percent more supplemental torque (100.4 lb.-ft. total). During regenerative braking when the motor acts as a generator for the IMA's battery pack, the generator also produces 12% percent more kW of power (14 kW total), and in both cases, the motor is more efficient, transferring 97.5 percent (vs. 94.6% in Civic Hybrid) of the available energy in assist mode, and converting 95.2 percent (vs. 93.6%) of renewable kinetic energy into electrical energy in charge mode. In addition, the Accord Hybrid's Nickel Metal-Hydride battery pack and integrated cooling system are more compact, yet more efficient than that in a Civic Hybrid Sedan.

Transmission

A specially modified version of the existing 5-speed automatic transmission was specified for the Accord Hybrid Sedan. This new transmission is more compact than that in an Accord EX V-6 Sedan and is specially designed to work with the IMA's electric motor to maximize the motor's ability to regenerate electricity during regenerative braking.

The transmission uses a high response lockup clutch torque converter for improved fuel efficiency while an integrated electric oil pump helps provide smooth and quick restarts of the engine after idle stops. With a slightly wider range of gear ratios than the automatic transmission in an Accord EX V-6, acceleration is quick from the line and the taller 5th gear helps conserve fuel during highway cruising.

IMA Operation

Though drivers will notice a different experience when it comes to the reduced frequency of fuel stops, the actual driving experience is virtually identical to that of a traditional Accord EX V-6. The complex processes that make the Accord Hybrid the fuel efficient car that it is would go unnoticed if not for the small IMA display integrated into the car's speedometer.

At startup, the Accord Hybrid's engine runs at idle speed until the driver increases the throttle to begin accelerating. During acceleration, all six cylinders of the Accord Hybrid's 3.0-liter engine are active, with the IMA system helping if hard acceleration is required. If this is the case, the blue indicator bars in the Accord's IMA display will light to show that the IMA is in Assist Mode.

When the driver minimizes accelerator input at cruising speed, a number of fuel saving operations begin. First, the Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) system can deactivate the engine's rear bank of three cylinders to effectively cut fuel consumption in half. At the same time, the IMA's Intelligent Power Unit turns the IMA motor into a generator to begin regenerative braking and the IMA display's green bars illuminate to show the level of electrical energy being created. If, during cruising, power is required to maintain speed, the IMA motor will offer assist while the rear cylinders remain inactive.

As the vehicle begins to slow and the driver applies the brakes, more electricity is created through regenerative braking and the VCM system cuts fuel to the active front bank of three cylinders to further conserve fuel.
As the driver continues to apply the brake, the IMA system can completely idle-stop the engine when vehicle speed drops below 8 mph. An indicator in the instrument panel's tachometer flashes to alert the driver that the car is idle-stopped. When the driver releases the brake pedal, the IMA motor instantaneously spins the engine back into action with all six cylinders firing at idle speed. Occasionally, the idle stop feature is disabled when driving on a hot day and full air-conditioning power is needed by the hybrid air conditioning system. At all other times, idle stop can be activated once the vehicle speed exceeds approximately 10 mph.

 

This design obviously came from ANTONOV's PATENT'S That HONDA purchased in 1999 , which was the Variable transmission ....Honda didn't buy ALL Antonov's patent's ,juts 7 of the 9 and left their own ENGINEER's ( Honda engineer's to make adjustment's ,so that the original CVT prototype would work )


Would be nice to know WHICH HONDA transmission's really work ? Seem's the RL's do not have the same transmission failure's all the other model's do , WHY is this .....?

 

I believe the NSX does not have problems either (but it is not a mass-produced vehicle). My opinion ... the RL 'made in Japan' somehow makes a difference.

 

Well ....You know Bluto Honda specifically told me that my 04 tl had an NSX transmission.


Looking back now I see the truth and wonder how I could have even believed that, but you live and learn.


I wonder of some prototype idle transmission's could have accidently gotten on the market ? I mean sometimes things like that happen ,you just can never be sure .... I am saying that too ,because I have read several statement's that consumer's have stated when speaking about their transmission failure's to the effect that the service dept can't replace a transmission unless they can duplicate a problem ....and that they are not allowed to PULL the transmissions to LOOK them over ,they are only allowed to send them back to the factory....


WHY are service techs not allowed to do this ...whya is it ONLY the manufacturer allowed to inspect the transmission's. Many many question's in this mystery . Also I noticed my transmission were both made in JAPAN ,so my sticker said ,yet 2 of them failed ...I guess some bad ones are in the bunch...


None the less , happy HOLIDAY'S Bluto .

 

On some of the early CL-S window stickers the tranny is listed as 'Made in Japan.' Does that mean all the parts were made, and assembly took place in Japan, maybe a ceratin percentage? Who knows?

I don't know how different the Idle Stop tranny is from the 5 auto. But is looks like the lurching issue is related to any hybrid's control of the electric motor and gas engine. Not simply Honda's transmission.

"NHTSA also issued a concern that this new technology must address the possibility of a sudden lurching forward of a vehicle in an automatic restart instead of the gradual creeping forward found in current transmission designs.

NHTSA said that besides Honda and Toyota Motor Corporation other vehicle manufacturers ..."


I'm not familiar with Honda's engineering, manufacturing, parts, supply, outsourcing, etc. But my brother saw the inner workings of a Allison transmission plant (as a Castrol Rep). Anything that could go wrong, went wrong. And Allison makes premium transmissions.


But Allison have a great design that works when correctly manufactured.


Honda has design flaws, not manufacturing problems.


I'm almost sure the 5 speed auto is a Honda North America product? I think the CL was the first 100% North American design? If so, Acura put a great transmission in the old Legends and obviously did not assist Honda North America witht the 5 speed auto.

I think Honda cut (many) corners on this transmission. I do not think our transmission was designed and built from the ground up for a V6, but based on 4 cylinder transmissions.

In a short time, Honda went from econo 4 cylinder transmissions - to - high powered, V6, sport shift, grade logic control, 5 speed autos.

The V6 transmissions did OK with 190-220 HP, 4 speed auto, 1997-2000 Accords, TLs, etc. Add 40 HP and an extra gear, the shortcomings of the transmission's design (or lack of design) begin to show after 40,000 miles or less.

Have a happy and safe Holiday in sunny Florida Girl.

 

Yes...That sounds plausable....... And yet still I wonder why the acura service techs are not allowed to disasemble the faulty transmission's , they MUST be sent back to the factory ,yet when some have wanted to get their original transmission's to have them inspected, they mysteriously can't be found.


Still searching for the WHOLE TRUTH.