1hotcls6

So I put a motor from an auto into my cls6 after i lent the car to my friend who blew the motor. I swapped in the new CKP sensor with the harness that connects to it, the timing belt gear, and the front cam gear and cam plate. the car continues to throw a code p0336 and the car is at the dealer now. they have redone the timing, redone the valve clearance. and still there is an issue with power loss and this occasional random code for the crank sensor.

they are telling me that the car is pulling timing and that I have a vacuum issue but have not found a specific cause. they are now telling me they want to swap out my oil pump as it is different from the auto to manual motors. but i have not read from anyone who has dfone this swap that this was needed. this has cost me about $5,000 so far in trying to find the cause of this issue and I need some help!

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Does it throw p0336 or run any differently with the CPS (crank position sensor) disconnected? Have you done a leakdown test?

1hotcls6

i did a compression test and found 240psi on all cylinders

it seems to throw the p0336 code when the a/c is on and the car is idling, but the car has very choppy throttle response and is not smooth at all. ive done swaps in my cvar before, but this is the first time i swap an auto motor in the car. the reason why I went with the auto motor this time was because i figured the motor from an auto could not be abused as one from a manual tranny.

1hotcls6

was there something i missed in the swap conversion? and whats this deal with the dealer telling me that the oil pumps are different? I am under the understanding that the CKP sensor mounts to the oil pump, and if that is the case, if the mounting for the sensor is diff from auto to manual it would make sense as to the reason that it is throwing a p0336 code, but how come nobody has mentioned this in threads from other swaps?

1hotcls6

one other thing i forgot to mention, I have the clutch masters stage 4 clutch and light weight fly wheel installed. I dont know if that is related to my issue in anyway

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Swap being completed this week (14,000 J32A2 in, 84,000 blown J32A2 out) on my 6 speed. I'm doing clutchmasters stage 1 with flywheel and lightened crank pulley - will let you know how it goes....

1hotcls6

any body else can chime in?

phee

iTrader: (5)

oil pumps are the same. i would check the vacuum hoses and make sure they are connected to the right spot. such as the vacuum hose that goes to the FPR and the intake manifold.

the cam gears are different
the cam backing plate is different
fsstyms1 went throught he same thing with his swap. i would pm him

phee

iTrader: (5)

how did the motor blow exatcly
?

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

The CAM gear and backing plate are different? Do we have a list anywhere of the differences? Wasn't epxecting that.....

1hotcls6

Timing Belt Pulley

Part #s:
- 13621-P8A-A01 (auto)
- 13621-PGE-A11 (6MT)



Cam Gears:

The front cam gear is different between the auto and manual. The manual cam gear has PGE stamped on it.

Part #s:
- 14260-P8A-A01 (auto)
- 14260-PGE-A11 (6MT)

1hotcls6

Ive got 2 different part numbers for the oil pump

15100-P8E-A01 automatic
15100-PGE-A12 6 speed

does anyone have pix of either or of these pumps?

1hotcls6

the piston rings went out

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Front cam pulley 14260-PGE-A11
Front plate assembly (behind cam pulley) 11860-PGE-A10
Timing belt pulley(lower) 13621-PGE-A11
Crank shaft sensor 37500-PGE-A11
Sub harness for CKP 37501-PGE-A10
TDC Sensors (Qty 2) 37840-PGE-A11
TDC SUB HARNESS 37841-PGE-A10

Those are all the parts you need from a CL-S6. You did replace the TDC sensors right?

1hotcls6

I cant find a user by that username

AnthraciteBeast

iTrader: (3)

^ I believe CIVICDRIVR posted that the 5AT and 6MT oil pumps ARE different

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

My Honda mechanic friend just told me the oil pump shouldnt matter. I take his word as gospel.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The oil pumps do have different part numbers, but that may have to do with different pick-ups. I would have to say that the auto pump in the auto motor is perfectly fine.

Did you swap TDC sensors and harness?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

fsttyms1: He is a Moderator over on the 2nd Gen TL side.

1hotcls6

if the 2 cam sensors on the front cam plate are what you are referring to then yes i replaced the tdc sensors. i am confused about the definition of sub harness? if its the plugs that plug into those sensors, then yes I replaced those aswell, even tho I had them as my car is a 6speed

1hotcls6

can he verify if it would affect the crank sensor readings sinec the sensor mounts to the outside of the pump? the reason I ask is because they have their master tech of 20 years at the dealership working on my car and thats what he wants to do, but its a freaken $1500 job that I dont want to pay if it aint gonna fix it. ive already spent 5 grand and still no luck. its driving me nuts

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

He's doing the majority of the work on mine, and we're leaving it in place at his reccomendation. He said if anything the auto pump would likely have more oil pressure than the manual, and the pan and pickup match....leave em be.

Oil pump would literally be tearing the motor apart.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Thank you to those who posted the required parts difference!!!

1hotcls6

I know thats why I didnt want to dealer to do that yet cause it was such an expensive job and the fix was unclear if it would work.

1hotcls6

anybody else?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I'm no help but, $5,000 on a stock motor swap?

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

ive been told my a close friend thats and acura master tech and has rebuilt the j-series engine many times. the told me that the 6spd cls have diff cams (more aggressive) then the auto or tl-ps. and what ppl above said

DC3328

iTrader: (22)

go to the TL side and post this, we're the guys that do the swaps lol

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

I have $1000 in a 14,000 mile motor, my old motor, $500 to my mechanic friend to store the car, take the motor out, put all new seals and gaskets in, put the clutch in, swap over the necessary parts, and put everything back together properly - along with dirty hands from assisting with it. I can (and have) done all this sort of thing before, but I'm not 19 anymore and the $500 to have it done by the Honda pro is well worth it.

Total investment is going to be $3000ish, but with that, I got all the P2R gaskets, P2R spacer, P2R test pipe, comptech axlebacks, Clutchmasters flywheel, clutchmasters clutch, clutchmasters plate, new tbelt, new water pump, new sbelt, new cam seals, new front and rear main seals, coolant system flush, oil change, new plugs, transmission flush and new fluid, and the guy that would ultimately be fixing it if I took it to the dealership, doing all the work.

[U]
The cams thing concerns me though because I don't want to lose any power....does anyone know if they are different for certain?

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

We had to grind away a little bit of material to get that TDC sensor from the 6 spd to fit on the auto motor. I don't see how it would have bolted up without doing so. It's a 6 wire sensor vs a 4 wire sensor on the auto - but they use the same connector, just 2 sockets are empty on the auto harness.

If this hasn't been done - maybe that's your problem?

All that crank sensor does is count. It's looking for any variance in the rotational cycle. This is what generates all your misfire codes - it's GUESSING which cylinder is off based on what position isn't meeting the sensor when it spins. If they didn't change the associated timing components out, I wonder if it's throwing it for a loop.

Should be able to fire mine up tonight / tomorrow. Keep you posted....

Rajca

iTrader: (8)

Check the part numbers on the cams. I was surpriesed too, I thought that it was just the s and p that had diff cams. But the 6spd also has didd cams than the s or p

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Camshafts for 2003 CL-S:

6MT Front- 14100-PGE-A00

Auto Front- 14100-PGE-A00

6MT Rear- 14200-PGE-A00

Auto Rear- 14200-PGE-A00

The cams arent the issue.

OP- Try another crankshaft position sensor (or have you done that?)

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

I checked on the cams - don't worry about changing them. The 6M cams have identical lift to the auto, the only difference is the Auto has a .263 duration and the manual has a .264. You'll never notice, and since there's valve overlap already - you might run into issues if you switch them.

The water neck and connector were different on the manual and the intake manifold is different - very. Where it mates up to the Throttle body - completely different - you need your old intake mani.

phee

iTrader: (5)

u dont need the oil pump. i got a 6 speed with an auto pump. no problems.

u dont need a sub harness because you ave the one that came with your car.

why dont u pm fsttyms1? he went through this.

matter of fact. ill do it for you

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

I PM'd him yesterday and didnt get anything back?

1hotcls6

I didnt have to grind anything down? It bolted right up. Are you sure that was neccesary? Can anyone else verify this? Also when you refer to the TDC sensor, are you refering to the crank shaft sensor, or the 2 camshaft sensors that attach to the plate behind the front cam gear?

1hotcls6

Thank you bro, if he responds to you can you forward him to this thread. Thank you in advance.

If anyone wants to call/text me my # is 214.728.6115

1hotcls6

The crank sensor I put in I purchased new from the dealer

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

TDC Sensors on the cam, not the crank sensor

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Just because its new doesnt mean it is functioning properly.