Why get underdrive pulleys instead of non-underdrive.
08-22-2005, 01:27 PM
#41
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So using all of you guy's logic, you can experience horsepower gains from a lightweight flywheel, or rear-end gears (obviously not in a CL or TL). Don't think so...
Zoltanh, you may ignore my posting if you please. But, be advised that it is not incorrect. Less drag on the motor does not equate to horsepower gains. Same thing as lightweight flywheel of rear-end gears. It is easier for the motor to operate. I would like to see some actual dyno numbers before and after...
I'm not saying that putting on these pulleys is a bad thing or you won't experience gains. Just not horsepower. Your car WILL run stronger. I had pulleys on my mustang. I WILL tell you that the air conditioner never cooled the same again. It would start to blow hot air in traffic or stop lights until you started to move again.
Also, I had 800RMS of power in the mustang and pulleys never effected power output. Maybe there is a difference in alternator output, but mine ran fine.
Zoltanh, you may ignore my posting if you please. But, be advised that it is not incorrect. Less drag on the motor does not equate to horsepower gains. Same thing as lightweight flywheel of rear-end gears. It is easier for the motor to operate. I would like to see some actual dyno numbers before and after...
I'm not saying that putting on these pulleys is a bad thing or you won't experience gains. Just not horsepower. Your car WILL run stronger. I had pulleys on my mustang. I WILL tell you that the air conditioner never cooled the same again. It would start to blow hot air in traffic or stop lights until you started to move again.
Also, I had 800RMS of power in the mustang and pulleys never effected power output. Maybe there is a difference in alternator output, but mine ran fine.
08-22-2005, 01:52 PM
#42
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by ATownTXType-S
So using all of you guy's logic, you can experience horsepower gains from a lightweight flywheel, or rear-end gears (obviously not in a CL or TL). Don't think so...
Zoltanh, you may ignore my posting if you please. But, be advised that it is not incorrect. Less drag on the motor does not equate to horsepower gains. Same thing as lightweight flywheel of rear-end gears. It is easier for the motor to operate. I would like to see some actual dyno numbers before and after...
I'm not saying that putting on these pulleys is a bad thing or you won't experience gains. Just not horsepower. Your car WILL run stronger. I had pulleys on my mustang. I WILL tell you that the air conditioner never cooled the same again. It would start to blow hot air in traffic or stop lights until you started to move again.
Also, I had 800RMS of power in the mustang and pulleys never effected power output. Maybe there is a difference in alternator output, but mine ran fine.
Zoltanh, you may ignore my posting if you please. But, be advised that it is not incorrect. Less drag on the motor does not equate to horsepower gains. Same thing as lightweight flywheel of rear-end gears. It is easier for the motor to operate. I would like to see some actual dyno numbers before and after...
I'm not saying that putting on these pulleys is a bad thing or you won't experience gains. Just not horsepower. Your car WILL run stronger. I had pulleys on my mustang. I WILL tell you that the air conditioner never cooled the same again. It would start to blow hot air in traffic or stop lights until you started to move again.
Also, I had 800RMS of power in the mustang and pulleys never effected power output. Maybe there is a difference in alternator output, but mine ran fine.
08-22-2005, 02:01 PM
#43
I need a Hybrid CL-S
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Originally Posted by Smitty
u guys R pissing off Mikey Tuttel.....
I know you knew the answer, so I do not know why you put yourself through 2 pages of torture..
08-22-2005, 04:37 PM
#44
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http://www.teamscr.com/pulleys.htm
http://www.dcr.net/~hensley/page7.html
There is a good article on testing of pulleys. With taking the pulleys completely off (no accessories), they netted 3 HP on a dyno. They figured with underdirve pulleys, they would net 20% of that or .6 HP. So what would the gain be with JUST lightweight pulleys?!?!? I know a Saturn does not put out the power stock that a 3.2-S does, but at most you're looking at 1HP down with light weight pulleys
So long story short, you were right and I was wrong, you can get power. All 1 of it.
BTY, TypeR your the idiot, there are many of many ways for a car to run stronger without adding power (e.g. lighter flywheel, light rotating assembly, so forth). Then you say I'm wrong for stating there won't be horsepower gains and you say "your an idiot so stop now...the reality is that you're not so much gaining hp." I thought I said you wouldn't gain horsepower...So we agree? You should moderate something and stop calling people idiots you agree with...
http://www.dcr.net/~hensley/page7.html
There is a good article on testing of pulleys. With taking the pulleys completely off (no accessories), they netted 3 HP on a dyno. They figured with underdirve pulleys, they would net 20% of that or .6 HP. So what would the gain be with JUST lightweight pulleys?!?!? I know a Saturn does not put out the power stock that a 3.2-S does, but at most you're looking at 1HP down with light weight pulleys
So long story short, you were right and I was wrong, you can get power. All 1 of it.
BTY, TypeR your the idiot, there are many of many ways for a car to run stronger without adding power (e.g. lighter flywheel, light rotating assembly, so forth). Then you say I'm wrong for stating there won't be horsepower gains and you say "your an idiot so stop now...the reality is that you're not so much gaining hp." I thought I said you wouldn't gain horsepower...So we agree? You should moderate something and stop calling people idiots you agree with...
08-22-2005, 05:21 PM
#45
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http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...orsepower.html
That is a very useful article. Like did you know that at 5252 RPM the horsepower and toruque are always equivalent? Anyways, after more research, I found that horsepower is derived from tourque. In fact, Dynos measure tourque, not HP, and calculate HP.
As for the HP gains from pulleys, it is so minimal if any, that it is more than likely due to some other variable, like outside temperature of humidity between runs. As for power gains from pulleys, you probably would experience gains from them. Like TypeR said, you would lessen the loss of power through the drivetrain (i.e. lose less power from Crank to wheels). However, that hardly be considered MAKING horsepower, but rather RETAINING horsepower (or something likw that).
As for the underdrive negatives, I have realized that underdrive may actually positively affect accessories by slowing them down while driving and thereby extending life of them. Yeah they will suck at stop-lights and traffic, but at least you won't tear them up at 7000RPM.
That is a very useful article. Like did you know that at 5252 RPM the horsepower and toruque are always equivalent? Anyways, after more research, I found that horsepower is derived from tourque. In fact, Dynos measure tourque, not HP, and calculate HP.
As for the HP gains from pulleys, it is so minimal if any, that it is more than likely due to some other variable, like outside temperature of humidity between runs. As for power gains from pulleys, you probably would experience gains from them. Like TypeR said, you would lessen the loss of power through the drivetrain (i.e. lose less power from Crank to wheels). However, that hardly be considered MAKING horsepower, but rather RETAINING horsepower (or something likw that).
As for the underdrive negatives, I have realized that underdrive may actually positively affect accessories by slowing them down while driving and thereby extending life of them. Yeah they will suck at stop-lights and traffic, but at least you won't tear them up at 7000RPM.
08-22-2005, 05:32 PM
#46
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some info from an experienced user: get whichever is cheaper, only if you never plan to SC the car. the underdriving will not affect anything drastically. if your car is old/too many miles and you are worried something might break, dont get either pulley! lol
this thread... 
08-23-2005, 10:44 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Sun Diego CL-S
so to get the gains mentioned above, you have to buy only the Ultra S underdrive crank pulley, the underdrive pulley set, or all of these together? 
08-23-2005, 11:59 AM
#49
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by ATownTXType-S
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed...orsepower.html
That is a very useful article. Like did you know that at 5252 RPM the horsepower and toruque are always equivalent? Anyways, after more research, I found that horsepower is derived from tourque. In fact, Dynos measure tourque, not HP, and calculate HP.
As for the HP gains from pulleys, it is so minimal if any, that it is more than likely due to some other variable, like outside temperature of humidity between runs. As for power gains from pulleys, you probably would experience gains from them. Like TypeR said, you would lessen the loss of power through the drivetrain (i.e. lose less power from Crank to wheels). However, that hardly be considered MAKING horsepower, but rather RETAINING horsepower (or something likw that).
As for the underdrive negatives, I have realized that underdrive may actually positively affect accessories by slowing them down while driving and thereby extending life of them. Yeah they will suck at stop-lights and traffic, but at least you won't tear them up at 7000RPM.
That is a very useful article. Like did you know that at 5252 RPM the horsepower and toruque are always equivalent? Anyways, after more research, I found that horsepower is derived from tourque. In fact, Dynos measure tourque, not HP, and calculate HP.
As for the HP gains from pulleys, it is so minimal if any, that it is more than likely due to some other variable, like outside temperature of humidity between runs. As for power gains from pulleys, you probably would experience gains from them. Like TypeR said, you would lessen the loss of power through the drivetrain (i.e. lose less power from Crank to wheels). However, that hardly be considered MAKING horsepower, but rather RETAINING horsepower (or something likw that).
As for the underdrive negatives, I have realized that underdrive may actually positively affect accessories by slowing them down while driving and thereby extending life of them. Yeah they will suck at stop-lights and traffic, but at least you won't tear them up at 7000RPM.
08-23-2005, 12:36 PM
#51
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TypeR, or anyone, show me some actual dyno number with and without the underdrive or lightweight pulleys. I do not believe you will get 10hp to the wheels. Same as I do not believe a K&N replacement is good for 15hp (or whatever the box says). One forum I saw showed some numbers on a LT1 Camaro, net gain 4 to the wheels.
08-23-2005, 01:01 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by ATownTXType-S
TypeR, or anyone, show me some actual dyno number with and without the underdrive or lightweight pulleys. I do not believe you will get 10hp to the wheels. Same as I do not believe a K&N replacement is good for 15hp (or whatever the box says). One forum I saw showed some numbers on a LT1 Camaro, net gain 4 to the wheels.
08-23-2005, 01:21 PM
#54
Not Asian
Originally Posted by zoltanh
Dyno results from unorthodox racing website for acura cl-s, with and without pulleys, 13.5hp gained, 9.3 lbs-ft
08-23-2005, 08:42 PM
#55
Adventurist.
Originally Posted by ATownTXType-S
TypeR, or anyone, show me some actual dyno number with and without the underdrive or lightweight pulleys. I do not believe you will get 10hp to the wheels.
It's not my thread, so I'm not searching.
08-24-2005, 03:46 PM
#57
Senior Moderator
as ive said all along the best bang for the buck mod bar none....next are the tstat,and thermo blok...but i would argue that a gutted air box and K&N drop in at a total cost of 55$ and 1 hours work would give any of the above mods a run for there money
08-24-2005, 04:39 PM
#58
Not Asian
Originally Posted by ATownTXType-S
Well that is impressive. I would put on my car whatever they did to that car to get those results with just some pulleys.
08-25-2005, 09:05 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by phipark
I believe that is just the underdrive pulley alone, doesn't include the alt or p/s pulley.
08-25-2005, 09:31 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by zoltanh
Adding the alt or ps pulley doesnt give you any gains, they are only asthetic.
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