Hi All,
I've read threads about this topics, and have a quick questions. For most of you guys who did this mod, did you guys use the UR Ultra SC Crank Pulley (stock diameter) or UR Ultra S Pulley (Underdrive)?

I'm very interested in this mod, but still unsure about any cons in the long run (Although, i haven't read anything bad except some squiky steering wheels). If you guys can sheed some light on this, that would be great

I"m planning to do this mod at the same time with the icebox....i should feel a good gain...I hope

 

Do you plan on supercharing or running a nice audio system? then get the SC

 

underdrive that bitch unless you are going to run the supercharger.

 

No,
No plan for supercharger, and i only have a 10" bazooka on my trunk....nothing big...

Do you guys suggest to buy the whole set (with Accessories pullyes) or just crank?...does buying the whole set gives you more gain, or just a waste of money....

Also, does that steering wheel squiky problem common after you underdrive you crank pulley?

Thanks again for the input

 

from what i understand you don't gain realy anything from the accesories, only the crank...

 

Yeah, that's what i got from reading threads about this. Also, i've just found another thread explaining why UR crank pulley can be bad for engine in the long run...something about vibration and stuff.....

I'm really torn between getting this mod or not....I guess i'll wait a while longer to see more comments and review

 

I haven't had any problems yet.

 

Yeah, and Unorthodox site mention that their pulley will actually be better for the engine bearing....which is opposite to some comment in this forum....

I really hate it when there is no definite answer

 

if you arnt going supercharged, get the underdrive pulley. I have it on my 6mt and it is great. I will not hurt the engine. It will possibly hurt the engine if you were to boost power up to say 600hp. but then you would more than likely have a handful or problems before the crank bearings failed. I had a Accord that had every bolt on part for the motor and drove it for 190,000 miles with zero issues. it is a great mod. get it.

ps I have a 10" in the trunk and have no power probs with the underdrive pulley.

 

I have TWO Acuras with underdrive pulleys installed, don't worry about it!

 

there is a def answer, the underdrive pulley will not harm our engine.

 

Our crank pulley does not have a harmonic balancer like on some engines, so there is no real harm in installing the UR pulley.

 

I C....that's one of the thing I was wondering...about the harmonic balancer...so I guess, like UR site said, most newer engine is balanced internally.

As far as bearing...how come some people said that it can wear out the bearing with underdrive pulley?...can somebody shed some light on how this might be?

thanks for all of the info BTW.....

 

Ok, after learning more from the TL site,
My conclusion is that it is safe to install underdrive UR pulley if you stock pulley does not have harmonic balancer in it (in other word, it's not 2 in 1). It seems like those with problems are the one who replaces their crank pulley which also has harmonic balance in it with lightweigth pulley (ex. stock pulley on BMW).

So, just to be sure, can anybodyelse confirm that 03 CLS stock crank pulley doesn't have any balancer in it (just a piece of metal, and the engine is internally balanced)?

Thanks again for all of your help

 

Its just a peice of metal. I've installed 2 crank pulleys and the stock pulley is all metal.

 

[QUOTE=bim6180]Ok, after learning more from the TL site,
My conclusion is that it is safe to install underdrive UR pulley if you stock pulley does not have harmonic balancer in it (in other word, it's not 2 in 1). It seems like those with problems are the one who replaces their crank pulley which also has harmonic balance in it with lightweigth pulley (ex. stock pulley on BMW).

So if i was to get the whole pulley set from unothadox racing and install all 3 pulleys i would have a problem ?

 

I have the UR crank pulley installed. The stock pulley "is" a harmonic balancer on the TL/CL! Just look at the part name from acura, it is a Damper/Harmonic balancer. It has a huge rubber isolator on it. However, removing it wont hurt anything. Unless you plan on driving that block to 300,000 miles you will not have a prob and may not even then. If you were goign with 600hp, I would say you may have a prob much sooner. Those are the facts. You must decide if you are comfortable without it. noone has reported a failure of a properly maintained stock application that I know of that wasnt hear-say. There is nothing to worry about. my 2cents

 

75k no probs

 

and you have the crank pulley alone. is that correct?

 

did yes i see little benefite to the rest of the set up 1-2 more hp at best

 

crank pulley only here. noticable gain at the high end.

 

crank pulleys have shown consistant gains of 8-12 hp throughout the entire RPM range

 

Ok, according to this thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...a+Crank+Pulley

The stock pulley is all cast iron (no harmonic balancer), unless CL pulley is different than TL. Just wondering if anybody know about this.

The reason I asked so many question is because this mod deals directly with the engine. I just wantted to make sure....not trying to be annoying..

Thanks guys

 

Ok,
this quote is from the president of Unorthodox:

"We have samples of solid crank pulleys for almost every engine we make a pulley for. This will shock some experts but it is true, one of these days we will post pictures of all the solid pulleys. The Accord/Acura 3.0/3.2L V6 is one of them"...

"This again proving that the factory uses the dampened pulley for the street to quiet engine noise herd in the car but when it comes to performance they eliminate the damper..."

Do you think he's telling the truth?....anybody here ever examine the stock pulley?

Thanks again

 

It is not a harmonic balancer. It is just a peice of metal like you have found out by searching.

I have seen the stock pulley from a TL and a CL. They are the same all cast iron peice.

 

Thanks for the clarification

 

hmmm maybe this will be my next mod, since I decided to keep the stock exhaust.

 

this will definitely be going on along with the Mugen cooling mods when i get under the hood. kinda trying to do some stuff on the exterior first.

 

i have one in my hand right now and it has a rubber insert...im still not saying if it's a harmonic balancer or a tortional vibration damper...im just saying ive seen quotes from honda that the engine is internally balanced and we have several CL's with over 75K miles with the pulley w/o one single issue...no one drove there car hard then mine was driven with over 500 passes down the track...not one issue...


IM taking a picture right now

 

when you take your pulley off look at it and you will see the large rubber damper. until then I dont care to discuss it anymore. If you want I will take a pic of the stock piece that came off my car, a '03 cls 6mt. the info about it nto being one is wrong i have seen the same info. take a look at the stock piece, the buck stops there. this all irrelevant though. In the end it doesnt matter. for your application it will not harm a damn thing. If you want the extra 8-12 hp just go get it and enjoy. this argument has been going on since UR relesed this piece. just go get it, dont worry about it, and enjoy it.

 

So maybe there is rubber in it. I could have sworn it was all metal, but its possible I'm wrong. But if Honda states the engine is balanced internally this is all a moot point. Why would they lie about how the engine is balanced?

 

On some of the stock pulleys there might be an elastomer, but that is different from categorizing the pulley as a harmonic dampener. Again, the UR website has a clear explanation for the elastomer if your pulley has one. I don't believe the J series has one but I will have to check personally b/c I have a number of them in my shop:

4) "Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications we offer use a counterweight as part of the pulley, as these engines are all internally balanced.

The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that makes them look similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note in these applications, the elastomer is inadequate in size and durability to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most owners who have installed our pulleys notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is result of replacing the heavy crank pulley with our crank pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.

The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke length, displacement, inline, V configurations, piston dwell time, piston pin off-set, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.

Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about crank pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.

 

So I just pulled my stock unit out of the UR box to make sure I am not being a jack ass. I pulled out a hammer and a flat head screw driver and banged it on the spot where the rubber is and of course it dug in and absorbed the shock of the hammer through the flat head. I flipped it over and did the same thing. I can even depress my fingernail into the rubber. Trust me sir, you are misinformed and not everything on this site is factual. However, after further inspection the rubber isolator is between the belt loop for the alternator/ (A/C) pulley and the pulley for the power steering pump. Both of the pulleys I am referring to are on the crank pulley. When you see your stock unit you will see exactly what I am talking about and this is the damper for the crank. If you still think I am wrong take the stock part to a mechanic and ask him, without saying a word about what you think it is, what it is. To hell with it, I am going to take some pics and post them. This is going to end right here. I broke my dig cam so I will borrow my friends when he gets home. who wants to host the pic? Holla.

 

well, hell! My crank pulley does not have any counter weight so I guess given the above statement by ecelerate, maybe it has no effect at all except for NVH. I do love this board.

 

http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/photo#picture_058



and let me just say this...like denso indicates the IK16 is the right plug for the cl type S and the P until you click on the IK16 icon and see it only indicates the J32A1 engine code... and like H&R for the longest time showed no spring application for the CL but they did for the TL and accord V6 and when told that these cars share the same basic spring they still said there's would not work on the CL... dont always belive what you read on somebodies web site...with that said...i believe with everything i know about moddifying the J series that there are no discernable adverse affects from the use of any light weight under drive crank pulleys and i might add that after my J35, i went to an EBay OBX knock off for 55$ shipped and had it on for 50K miles w/o issue

 

Thanks all....doesn't mean to open a can of worm...
But thanks for the explanation. I think i'm gonna get this pretty soon

 

so after all of that, it wont hurt your engine. buy it from excelerate, he is a good dealer, install it, and enjoy it. it wont hurt a thing

 

Yes, don't always believe what you read but I happen to have personal experience with the crank pulleys from the F and J series, since I have owned and worked on vehicles with these engines. But they do not have harmonic dampeners. They are internally balanced through the balance shaft. I was just using UR's website as a reference so I didn't have to re-type everything.

 

Ok,
one last question before i go and buy this pulley. If i get the whole set (including P/S and Alternator pulley), will it further underdrive the alternator and P/S? should i just keep it at stock if I want more power out of my alternator?

Thanks

 

aslong as were clear though that they are not solid steel and do have some sort of elastomer ring as evidenced in the link to the picture i provided?


http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/photo#picture_058