It looks like Acura loves t give me the shaft. They told me that they looked at it, and everything was fine. Now I know for a fact that these guys are idiots. They told me if I felt that there were still any problems with my car, I would have to remove all my mods, so they can check it again. I'm not very happy with Acura at this point. I will go tomorrow to the dealership, and show these asses what the hell an actuator does. They were insisting on telling me that since vtec is working, so is the actuator.

spiro

 

Good Luck Spiro

Give em' Hell!!!

 

PART I OF III: DEALER IQ TEST INFORMATION:


Bad actuators happen. It's your chance to give the dealer IQ test.


If they verify the problem (actuator doesn't move) and offer to replace it, you've found a dealer with minimal brain damage.)

OR


If they "stonewall" or try to put you off by telling you:
1. It only works under load.
2. It only works in certain temps.
3. They never go bad.
4. We don't see any OBDII codes, so it must be ok.
5. Put your "own" "stupid"/"lame" dealer vs. actuator failure story here.

You now know you have a ignorant, stupid, and/or bad dealer (Go to search and look up actuator and dealer)

Move on and get that sucker in there... You're currently driving a CL Type S-20HP.



Actuator problem not fixed in 03!!!!

Actuator and dealer in denial thread (one of many)

AND (for ammo)

Search the CLS forum for Actuator and Dealer



<hr></hr>

PART II OF III: DIAGNOSTICS AND SERVICE MANUAL INFO:

ON pages 11-42/11-43 of the 3.2 CL Service Manual 2001 (covers 2001 CL and CL Type-S models), there is a schematic diagram.

The schematic shows one of the outputs of the PGM-F1/PCM (the “electronic brain” of the car that sits behind the center console in the CLS) going to:

1. The INTAKE MANIFOLD RUNNER CONTROL MODULE (its show as a single block on the schematic – ok) The module is controlled by pin A13 of the PGM-F1.

2. There is a two-wire connection that goes to the: INTAKE MANIFOLD RUNNER CONTROL ACTUATOR from the IMRC MODULE described above.


The item in #1 (the control module) is detailed on page 11-139 (Intake Manifold Control (IMRC) Module Removal/Installation. The picture could be better, but it looks to be located in the driver’s foot well (left side).

The Actuator’s removal and replacement is described on page 11-138 (adjacent page). This is the “Actuator” as shown in the “jpeg/gif” (in this thread). The pictures you see are of the actual ACTUATOR. (NOT THE MODULE).

I “think” that most people have had the ACTUATOR replaced. However, the MODULE could go bad. (In rare cases someone could have a bad connector or wire and/or a bad driver/output transistor in the PGM-F1/PCM (IMO, I wouldn’t be looking there first and it would be the last place I’d look – [but that’s just me])


They should be able to swap item #1 and/or #2 and get you going…

There is a two-pin connector going to the actuator on the firewall, and it is either getting DC (direct current) or AC (alternating current); either way, a small DVM (Digital Volt Meter/Multimeter) should be able to “detect” if a signal is coming from the IRMC MODULE.)


So, here are the main parts:

1. IMRC Actuator (that motor/actuator on the engine firewall).
2. IMRC Module (inside the car).

If they can’t sort this out – be afraid … be very afraid!

<hr></hr>

PART III OF III: How to Stay Safe and "Step Away From the Car" TSB:

Perhaps the compilation of data needs to be nicely "typed-up" and made to look like a TSB . There should be a small section right up at the top that says:

"If your service people are having trouble understanding that NO OBDII code will be generated for IRMC failures, please call Acura retraining and compliance services immediately. If any of your service managers, advisers, and/or technicians have "trouble" understanding this information call the "Acura Service Imposter Hotline ASAP".... Please detain the personal involved so that we can pick them up and interrogate them and isolate them for further study… Also, a set of “Step Away From the Car” stickers can be obtained from 1-800-GET-AWAY (A set of the stickers and tattooing marks can be applied to all suspect employees!)

 

This dealer deserves the National "Get Away From The Car" Title

Do You Really Want These "Creatures" Working On or Near Your Car?:

SERVICE MANAGER:


SERVICE ADVISOR:



TECHS:





1. The "remove the mods." comment is a sure sign that they have an IQ BELOW 20 (or are subcreatures).

2. "The VTEC is working, so must the actuator..." comment is something that I'd expect from a certified MORON.

Man, you've got to get yourself a new dealer -- they are beyond helpless.

I left you the Helms data on what needs to be done. The stupid morons need to "swap" a couple of modules AT MOST.

GOD HELP YOU IF YOUR TRANSMISSION EVER GOES OUT -- YOU WILL BE SCREWED IF THEY DO THE WORK...

Customer Service at your Service:




You could get in there, but you would probably have to "join" by letting them "alter you" while they repeat the following (over and over):

"We accept him / One of us / Gooble, gobble / Gooble, gobble / We accept him / One of us!...


God help you....

 

o my...Eric, do i detect just a little hostility??

 

I had the same diagnosis too So went to another dealer who had never seen the problem, called another dealer somewhere CA, and fixed the problem.

 

Time for a new dealer. I'm so sick of running around with these dealers. Why isnt there a good dealer a block from my house?

 

Eric- Awesome animated diagram! Much thanks!!

 

Spiroh, let me know how the new dealer search goes.

Your issue is exactly why I'm hesitent to put on additional mods, as I don't want to have to go through all the BS you're going through.

 

I just dropped of my car this morning to get the actuator fixed. When I went in there to tell them about it they didnt even look at it...they just ordered it even tho the guy didnt really know what I was talking about. Well this morning he told me that they still needed to just "check" it so see it not work and I told him how he could do it by having someone rev the car to 4k He told me they had a test for it...somrthing that they hooked up and then they could make it flip open with out having someone reving the engine...maybe it hookes to the PCM thing and revs the car by itself.

Spiro did you show them on a new S on the lot??

I hope it works out for you bro!!!!!!!

 

These dealers are some cheap bastards!

All this over a part that costs $59 !!!

 

Is that all it costs I was wondering like what it would cost if soemone was out of warenty and the shit went out...well thats not that bad...still shouldnt happen.

 

Hey, I was thinking of worse… If it wasn’t a fellow member, and if this wasn’t a recurring “theme” I might laugh. These people deserve a good kick in the ass for being such losers. This problem is so simple to identify and fix, that I would drive 200-miles to find another dealer to work on the car – it really is that bad.

The more I think about this, the more I wonder about the ability of some of the dealers to get a tranny in and out of the car (let alone figure out the right parts to order to insure that the replacement transmission isn't abused from the second they handle it.)

If these people are NOT that stupid, they have another agenda, and it can’t be good. If they don’t want to work on the car that much, why let them near the car?

So, I don’t feel to sorry for the dealers, in fact the comments show that they are:


1. Totally hopeless… I’d want to install a surveillance camera and microphone in the car (“scam/moron busters time”) to watch what these “pinheads” are saying and doing.
2. We are NOT talking rocket science here.
3. Hey, I’ve met 7-year-olds with more common sense and initiative.
4. The diagnostic skills required to “sort out” the problem is so simple, that it really is a “STAY AWAY FROM THE CAR” IQ TEST – I’M not kidding!!!!!!



RE: THE MOD EXCUSE:
1. Unless someone “screwed-around” with the “brain” PGM-FI/PCM module behind the dash, or ripped-up the wiring, they are nuts. This is like refusing to replace wiper blades because there are different sway bars in a car A truly pathetic display of incompetence.
2. The very fact that these service people wont even walk over to another CLS and see if the actuator moves between 3K and 5K is beyond belief.
3. The parts will not be hurt if they are moved from one car to another. Acura knows about the problem. The fookers are too lazy to even call a zone rep or open up the Helms manual.


ALL OF THE INFORMATION REQUIRED is DETAILED IN THE HELMS MANUAL – see PART II OF III above.

Hey, if someone has a scanner and a Helms, can they print-out the following pages:

ON pages 11-42/11-43 of the 3.2 CL Service Manual 2001 (covers 2001 CL and CL Type-S models), there is a schematic diagram


1. SCAN OF PAGE 11-42 AND 11-43 (Full schematic of PGM-FI, IRMC MODULE, and IRMC ACTUATOR.)
2. SCAN OF PAGE 11-139 – IRMC Control module R&R.
3. SCAN OF PAGE 11-138 – IRMC ACTUATOR.

 

Perhaps this should be FAQ’d for other “actuator sufferers”…

OK – here is the link to the parts:

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.net/...VALVE+ACTUATOR





http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.net/...IT+%28CABIN%29

And I’m pretty sure the actuator module is shown in this diagram (if I rely on the Helms pics to “clue me in”:





Item #5 – this is the item shown on page 11-139 of the Helms. It is the “Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Module. Page 11-139 details the Removal and Installation.




Here is the complete IMRC System Troubleshooting guide from pages 11-135 to 11-137


1. Disconnect the IMRC module 14P connector.
2. Check for continuity between the IMRC module 14P connector terminal No. 10 and body ground (IF there is continuity – go to #3, ELSE repair open wire between the IMRC module 14P connector and G302.)
3. Turn the ignition switch ON (II).
4. Measure voltage between the IMRC module 14P connector terminal No. 4 and body ground. (IF there is battery voltage, go to step 6, ELSE go to step 5)
5. Check the No. 6 PCM (15A) fuse in the driver’s under-dash fuse/relay box. (IF the fuse in blown, replace the 15A fuse; if the fuse blows again, repair short in the wire between the IMRC module and the No. 6 PCM (15A) fuse in the drivers under-dash fuse/relay box. ELSE, repair open in the wire between the IMRC module and the No. 6 PCM (15A) fuse in the driver’s under-dash fuse/relay box.)
6. Turn the ignition switch OFF.
7. Disconnect the IMRC actuator 2P connector.
8. Measure resistance between the IMRC actuator 2P connector terminals No. 1 and No. 2 (You are measuring the resistance of the actual actuator – OK?) (If a ohm-meter reads between 2-5 ohms, go to step 9. ELSE, REPLACE the IMRC actuator.)
9. Reconnect the IMRC actuator 2P connector.
10. Measure resistance between IMRC MODULE 14P connector terminals No. 3 and No. 11. (IF there is 2 to 5 ohms, go to step 13, ELSE, go to step 11.)
11. Disconnect the IMRC actuator 2P connector.
12. Check for continuity between the IMRC module 14P connector terminal No. 3 and No. 11 and body ground individually. (Note – IMO, the Helms instructions suck here!) (IF there is “continuity” between either pin and ground, repair one or both of the shorts to ground. IF no reading is obtained (OPEN), then one of the two wires going between the 2P (2-pin) connector on the firewall and the 14P (14-pin) connector going to the “MODULE’s” connector are “OPEN” and need to be fixed. NOTE: I don’t think anyone has had a bad wire to date!)
13. Start the engine.
14. Measure the voltage between the IMRC module 14P connector terminal No 6 and body ground. (IF there is 5 Volts with engine speed below 3,500 rpm AND there is 0 Volts with engine speed above 4,000 rpm, then REPLACE IMRC MODULE, ELSE go to step 15.) (THE MODULE IS GETTING A “PROPER” SIGNAL FROM THE PCM)
15. Turn the ignition switch OFF.
16. Disconnect PCM connector A (32P)
17. Check for continuity between the IMRC module 14P connector No. 6 terminal and body ground. (IF there is continuity, repair short in wire between the IMRC MODULE and the PCM, ELSE go to step 18)
18. Connect PCM connector terminal A13 and body ground with a jumper wire.
19. Check for continuity between the IMRC module 14P connector terminal No. 6 and body ground. (IF there is continuity, substitute a known-good PCM and recheck. IF the symptom/indication goes away, replace the original PCM. ELSE, repair open in the wire between the IMRC module and the PCM.)


Notes:

1. A simple check by replacing the actuator and or module should not be that difficult. Most mechanics will get the job done quicker by swapping the actuator first, then the actuator module (inside the car).
2. If there is still a problem, the connectors, wires, and/or PCM (PGM-F1/PCM) could be bad and or its connections and or wire is screwed up.


How it works.

Pin A13 in the “brain” (PCM) stays “high” (at 5-volts) until 4,000 rpm or more is reached. It signals the IRMC MODULE to “turn-on” the ACTUATOR (the actual actuator sitting on the firewall) by going “low” (0-volts). This is called an “active low” signal. When the PCM goes LOW, it’s telling the IRMC MODULE to “TURN ON” and send juice to the “actuator”.

Here is how things go:

I wipped this off, and don’t have a scanner and some of the instructions are needlessly complicated (IMO). The bulk of the information for any “competent” mechanic with a HELM’s Service Manual (2001 CL Service Manual) should be no problem.

At a minimum, I don’t see why dealers can’t stock a couple of parts that come loose with one or two bolts and cost less than $200.00!

$0.02

 

i'm always paranoid about my actuator. i went from about an 80hp car to a "supposedly" 260hp car. i don't think i'd be able to tell the difference if it wasn't working. i think at the next meet i'm gonna have someone take a look for me.

 

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...679#post824679

 

I just came back from the dealer. Unfortunately the service manager wasnt there, but I did make my point. I grabbed one of the mechanics and service advisors, and revved up my car to 4k. My actuator hardly moved. They tried to give me the run around telling me that the actuator wont move when in park. I told them to hold on, till we do another type s. We went to a TL-S, and sure enough the actuator clicked over how it was supposed to. Then the mechanic figured I wasnt full of shit, and told the service advisor that I did have a point. They told me it was too late to order the part tomorrow, but they will talk to the service manager, and get that part ordered. If the service manager gives me any shit, I will call Acura CS, and make sure something gets done about this. So they have seen the light. I just hope tomorrow goes smoothly with the service manager.

spiro

 

hey greek god.....before you raise all hell...just remember your car does not have to be fixed by that shop...if you have a problem...take it to a different shop...or a better idea fix it yourself...all of you guys on this site seem to know more than the techs at these dealers...if all it took was to read this site and become a ase certified tech...hell no one would complain...what do you think the service manager would say when they look at your car w/mods...remeber warranty repairs get called back by the factory...if its not bad then the dealer eats the cost....i had a question for you greek stud....why do you slam the dealer...when the techs in the field do not have info as far as tsb from the factory..remember not all dealers may be lucky enough to have a winner like yourself to deal with...and quess what if they have not had that problem before how do you think they would respond looking at your car with your concern....kind of lost i bet....my idea for you is to thank the dealer they did not bounce you out the door the day you bought your "perfect " race car...its a over priced honda with problems.....oh ya if the trans goes i really to wish you luck...because it will- speed racer..............................rember the three B's when you talk with someone at your dealer in service...they sit back and think ..........1. i did not BUY it. i did not BUILD it 3. i did not BRAKE it..........

 

Spiro...I just went through the same thing...at first I thought they knowwhat I was talking about but it turns out I was wrong. They thought I was talking about the vtec sylanoid(sp). I wound up having to drag them to my car and show them how it doesnt open...the to another that does. They got me a new one ASAP and I just got my S back tonight...wow what a difference!!!!!!!! My dealer was not as assholeish as yours...they just didnt know anybetter...they didnt care about the mods and they were not trying to give me any run around shit...they just didnt know.

 

:sqntfawk: