UniChip Possibilities
10-17-2003 | 11:19 AM
#121
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Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by ronnie0738
What can monitor the ignition coil signal? Can the e-manage do that? So in theory, if we can find when the ECU sends the trigger, we can then try to advance the timing with the e-manage.
What can monitor the ignition coil signal? Can the e-manage do that? So in theory, if we can find when the ECU sends the trigger, we can then try to advance the timing with the e-manage.
The only possible way would be to anticipate the firing of the coil signal and do it early. But this would be guessing or require a more sophisticated unit which would monitor the CPK.
10-17-2003 | 01:46 PM
#124
Safety Car
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From: So Cal
Originally posted by scalbert
OK, just spoke to Greddy and gained some very helpful information.
First off, the injection control is exactly as I had thought and we both agreed that there wouldn't be any problem. We can use the E-manage and get complete control over the fueling including running larger injectors. This would allow us blown guys to remove the Comptech FPR, return to the stock FPR and tune the fuel curve as needed. I would definitely expect to see some gains, especially down low, through proper fueling.
As a side note, the ESM would also not be needed as this would do the same thing.
Now on to the timing, it can be done but with limitations. Based on our talk and what they have seen with the K series motor they can only retard timing. This does make sense as they are intercepting and retransmitting the ignition signal. By retarding it they just delay the output. But to advance it they would need to, but don't, know when the stock signal is triggering until it occurs. So this would be fine for us supercharged group as we need less timing. But it may not be of benefit for the NA crowd. Or at least a limited benefit since timing would not be able to be advanced.
I'm going ahead and ordering the E-manage, Support Tool and the Ignition and injector Harness. I'm also waiting on getting the connectors for the stock harness to make it a plug-n-play system. Once in and running I'll monitor the stock pulse width and determine what size injector to go to. I hope we can go with 370cc units but we might need 440cc in the end.
Now what to do Brian?? We are at kind of a cross roads in that it appears the Unichip may be better for the NA crowd whereas the e-Manage may be better for the supercharged. I say “may” I because we don’t know for sure until these things are tested. It would be nice to see if Dastek NA can gain insightful information from your car. But then again, if they can’t or the application isn’t what we though it could be, there is no sense in being without your vehicle for a week. I know the direction I am planning on taking now. I just am not sure what your best direction is.
OK, just spoke to Greddy and gained some very helpful information.
First off, the injection control is exactly as I had thought and we both agreed that there wouldn't be any problem. We can use the E-manage and get complete control over the fueling including running larger injectors. This would allow us blown guys to remove the Comptech FPR, return to the stock FPR and tune the fuel curve as needed. I would definitely expect to see some gains, especially down low, through proper fueling.
As a side note, the ESM would also not be needed as this would do the same thing.
Now on to the timing, it can be done but with limitations. Based on our talk and what they have seen with the K series motor they can only retard timing. This does make sense as they are intercepting and retransmitting the ignition signal. By retarding it they just delay the output. But to advance it they would need to, but don't, know when the stock signal is triggering until it occurs. So this would be fine for us supercharged group as we need less timing. But it may not be of benefit for the NA crowd. Or at least a limited benefit since timing would not be able to be advanced.
I'm going ahead and ordering the E-manage, Support Tool and the Ignition and injector Harness. I'm also waiting on getting the connectors for the stock harness to make it a plug-n-play system. Once in and running I'll monitor the stock pulse width and determine what size injector to go to. I hope we can go with 370cc units but we might need 440cc in the end.
Now what to do Brian?? We are at kind of a cross roads in that it appears the Unichip may be better for the NA crowd whereas the e-Manage may be better for the supercharged. I say “may” I because we don’t know for sure until these things are tested. It would be nice to see if Dastek NA can gain insightful information from your car. But then again, if they can’t or the application isn’t what we though it could be, there is no sense in being without your vehicle for a week. I know the direction I am planning on taking now. I just am not sure what your best direction is.
Are you getting a 1-bar MAP sensor as well? You would definately need that to retard timing and/or add fuel under boost. An RPM-based map is useless...I am sure you agree.
What kind of pricing do you have for the unit + accesories?
Great job here...
I think its time to build a 10psi 450whp monster
10-17-2003 | 02:07 PM
#125
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
Are you getting a 1-bar MAP sensor as well? You would definately need that to retard timing and/or add fuel under boost. An RPM-based map is useless...I am sure you agree.
What kind of pricing do you have for the unit + accesories?
Are you getting a 1-bar MAP sensor as well? You would definately need that to retard timing and/or add fuel under boost. An RPM-based map is useless...I am sure you agree.
What kind of pricing do you have for the unit + accesories?
Now maybe you will with another turbo. 
The pricing I have seen so far is just over $400 for the e-Manage, Software, Injector Harness and the Ignition Harness. Pretty decent IMO. Plus, the ECU harness shouldn't run more the $100. So for about $500 we can do pretty well with fuel and iginition control.
10-17-2003 | 04:53 PM
#130
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by JaDia4
Can HP/Torque be "guesstimated" at this point for the CHIP and the e-Manage on the NA and SC cars?
Can HP/Torque be "guesstimated" at this point for the CHIP and the e-Manage on the NA and SC cars?
But for the blown guys, since the rising rate FPR method is fairly crude when it comes to adding additional fuel; I do suspect there will be decent gains when we directly control the fuel delivery. How much is unknown but it should be respectable.
10-17-2003 | 04:57 PM
#132
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by ronnie0738
How much more maintenance is required?
How much more maintenance is required?
10-17-2003 | 05:05 PM
#134
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From: So Cal
Originally posted by scalbert
Our stock MAP is a 2 Bar absolute unit (1 Bar boost) so it should suffice for now. I know we won't hit 14.7 PSI boost with the SC at least. Now maybe you will with another turbo.
The pricing I have seen so far is just over $400 for the e-Manage, Software, Injector Harness and the Ignition Harness. Pretty decent IMO. Plus, the ECU harness shouldn't run more the $100. So for about $500 we can do pretty well with fuel and iginition control.
Our stock MAP is a 2 Bar absolute unit (1 Bar boost) so it should suffice for now. I know we won't hit 14.7 PSI boost with the SC at least.
Now maybe you will with another turbo. The pricing I have seen so far is just over $400 for the e-Manage, Software, Injector Harness and the Ignition Harness. Pretty decent IMO. Plus, the ECU harness shouldn't run more the $100. So for about $500 we can do pretty well with fuel and iginition control.
10-17-2003 | 05:24 PM
#135
Safety Car
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From: So Cal
Did some research... unit for $366 + shpping from:
http://www.suprastore.com/grempibafuco.html
Includes both harnesses
Man... this has me completely excited!!
However... I am sure at 45psi, our stock injectors can easily handle 400hp (crank).... probably don't need bigger injectors. Anything upwards of 400hp will need bigger injectors. Although we should find out the duty cycle at 7K RPMs.
http://www.suprastore.com/grempibafuco.html
Includes both harnesses
Man... this has me completely excited!!
However... I am sure at 45psi, our stock injectors can easily handle 400hp (crank).... probably don't need bigger injectors. Anything upwards of 400hp will need bigger injectors. Although we should find out the duty cycle at 7K RPMs.
10-17-2003 | 07:03 PM
#138
Safety Car
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From: So Cal
Originally posted by JaDia4
So what are the turbo'd guys going to do?
Same as the sc'd guys?
So what are the turbo'd guys going to do?
Same as the sc'd guys?
I think a properly setup car would easily put 450whp
10-17-2003 | 07:42 PM
#139
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From: Miami - just one day, I would like to drive without getting cut off!
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
This unit would allow a turbo-charged/inter-cooled CL-S to run 8-10 psi without leaning out or detonation I think a properly setup car would easily put 450whp
This unit would allow a turbo-charged/inter-cooled CL-S to run 8-10 psi without leaning out or detonation
I think a properly setup car would easily put 450whp
couple that with the 3.5L upgrade!
10-18-2003 | 06:13 AM
#143
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
So, now I also assume the e-manage unit uses the MAP sensor output to determine its boost vs. fuel/timing curve... AND provides a voltage-clamp function on the feed to the ECU? The latter being the same function as the Comptech ESM.
So, now I also assume the e-manage unit uses the MAP sensor output to determine its boost vs. fuel/timing curve... AND provides a voltage-clamp function on the feed to the ECU? The latter being the same function as the Comptech ESM.
10-18-2003 | 06:16 AM
#144
Cruisin'
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 24
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From: San Antonio, TX
Originally posted by scalbert
It is not really a problem of making a harness; I have employees who do this throughout the day, everyday. It is a problem of sourcing the OE connectors. I need to find out where they can be acquired; both the male and female sides.
It is not really a problem of making a harness; I have employees who do this throughout the day, everyday. It is a problem of sourcing the OE connectors. I need to find out where they can be acquired; both the male and female sides.
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...?threadid=4069
I think these are the part numbers for the 6speed.
1318612-1 125 Pin Connector Housing
353027-1 17 Pin Connector
353028-1 22 Pin Connector
353029-1 24 Pin Connector
353826-1 31 Pin Connector (it looks like you need two of these)
10-18-2003 | 06:18 AM
#145
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
However... I am sure at 45psi, our stock injectors can easily handle 400hp (crank).... probably don't need bigger injectors. Anything upwards of 400hp will need bigger injectors. Although we should find out the duty cycle at 7K RPMs.
However... I am sure at 45psi, our stock injectors can easily handle 400hp (crank).... probably don't need bigger injectors. Anything upwards of 400hp will need bigger injectors. Although we should find out the duty cycle at 7K RPMs.
I guess I can pull one or buy an extra and send it off to be tested. But what I'll probably do is just get the e-Manage and use it as a data acquisition system since it can report back the stock duty cycle. From there we can see how much room we have. But if they are correct we will need larger units.
I still think 440cc will be needed but 370 may suffice.
10-18-2003 | 06:23 AM
#147
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Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
This unit would allow a turbo-charged/inter-cooled CL-S to run 8-10 psi without leaning out or detonation I think a properly setup car would easily put 450whp
This unit would allow a turbo-charged/inter-cooled CL-S to run 8-10 psi without leaning out or detonation
I think a properly setup car would easily put 450whp
From here on the differential would just increase significantly. But I'd be happy with 400 WHP. Quite honestly, that is too much for this car.
10-18-2003 | 06:25 AM
#148
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by 99%StockAV6
This link below has info for the non-6speed connectors. All but connector E.
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...?threadid=4069
I think these are the part numbers for the 6speed.
1318612-1 125 Pin Connector Housing
353027-1 17 Pin Connector
353028-1 22 Pin Connector
353029-1 24 Pin Connector
353826-1 31 Pin Connector (it looks like you need two of these)
This link below has info for the non-6speed connectors. All but connector E.
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...?threadid=4069
I think these are the part numbers for the 6speed.
1318612-1 125 Pin Connector Housing
353027-1 17 Pin Connector
353028-1 22 Pin Connector
353029-1 24 Pin Connector
353826-1 31 Pin Connector (it looks like you need two of these)
10-18-2003 | 09:17 AM
#150
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From: Miami - just one day, I would like to drive without getting cut off!
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
With a well-setup turbo... I can turn the boost up 0.25psi and overcome any benefits of the $3000 3.5L upgrade
With a well-setup turbo... I can turn the boost up 0.25psi and overcome any benefits of the $3000 3.5L upgrade
10-18-2003 | 10:17 AM
#151
Safety Car
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From: So Cal
Originally posted by JaDia4
Are you saying that the emanage setup will make a 3.5L upgrade useless or are you saying that it can outperform the 3.5L in and of it's self? Sounds like you're saying the latter. But both would nice though.
Are you saying that the emanage setup will make a 3.5L upgrade useless or are you saying that it can outperform the 3.5L in and of it's self? Sounds like you're saying the latter. But both would nice though.
If you blow your motor and are going to rebuild it, I'd do the 3.5 as well, as the cost is the same!
10-18-2003 | 10:49 AM
#152
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Steve, I would like to follow your lead on this one, but I think I'd like to jump in with both feet on this one. I've done all the work myself on this car, and would like continue to do so. It sounds like the 5AT will need it's own map, and I'd like to be able to monitor, and and make any adjustments, if necessary, so I'll probably try to learn the tuning/re-mapping also. When you get to the point when you are making your plug-in harness, I could use your help with one for the 5AT. I may be biting off more than I can chew, but I'd like to give it a try.
10-18-2003 | 12:17 PM
#153
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by ModAddict
I've done all the work myself on this car, and would like continue to do so.
When you get to the point when you are making your plug-in harness, I could use your help with one for the 5AT.
I've done all the work myself on this car, and would like continue to do so.
When you get to the point when you are making your plug-in harness, I could use your help with one for the 5AT.
I'll make up the harness for the 5AT and send it up to you.
10-19-2003 | 05:22 AM
#156
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Suzuka Master
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by ModAddict
Thanks Steve!
Thanks Steve!
10-19-2003 | 06:27 AM
#157
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,796
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Originally posted by scalbert
Do you have the Helms manaul?? If so, can you scan the pages for the ECU connectors?? I need to compare this to the 5AT CL-S just to be sure they are the same.
Do you have the Helms manaul?? If so, can you scan the pages for the ECU connectors?? I need to compare this to the 5AT CL-S just to be sure they are the same.
no Helms manualI can go ahead and order one,... I should have one anyway.
10-19-2003 | 06:58 AM
#158
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Originally posted by ModAddict
no Helms manual
I can go ahead and order one,... I should have one anyway.
no Helms manualI can go ahead and order one,... I should have one anyway.
I'll be out of town until Tuesday night.
10-19-2003 | 07:53 PM
#160
Revving at 9K...
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,204
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From: Portland Oregon
Originally posted by scalbert
Now what to do Brian?? We are at kind of a cross roads in that it appears the Unichip may be better for the NA crowd whereas the e-Manage may be better for the supercharged. I say “may” I because we don’t know for sure until these things are tested. It would be nice to see if Dastek NA can gain insightful information from your car. But then again, if they can’t or the application isn’t what we though it could be, there is no sense in being without your vehicle for a week. I know the direction I am planning on taking now. I just am not sure what your best direction is.
Now what to do Brian?? We are at kind of a cross roads in that it appears the Unichip may be better for the NA crowd whereas the e-Manage may be better for the supercharged. I say “may” I because we don’t know for sure until these things are tested. It would be nice to see if Dastek NA can gain insightful information from your car. But then again, if they can’t or the application isn’t what we though it could be, there is no sense in being without your vehicle for a week. I know the direction I am planning on taking now. I just am not sure what your best direction is.