scalbert

I just spoke to Tony of Dastek and confirmed the ideas about the Unichip. Its basic method of altering the fuel delivery is by modifying the primary air flow sensor; in our case it would be the MAP (even though that is not an airflow measurement). This would not work for us supercharged guys as any value change is irrelevant due to the clamping of the signal.

In discussing this it was determined that the ideal method would be to drive additional injectors. This would allow us to drop the high fuel pressure and allow the Unichip to drive the additional squirters to supply the needed additional fuel. However, this does bring up the issue with mechanical installation of the additional injectors. I can see places on both the stock manifold and the intercooled unit but would require fabrication.

The ignition control is through altering the crank position sensor.

I was going to give this some though as to if we should really pursue this avenue. I see pluses and minuses to it when compared to the e-Manage. But IMO, it looks like the e-Manage may be better suited for our application; at least for us blown guys. I am waiting on some data about the e-Manage to help make a final decision on the direction for me.

mattg

steve, you rock.

these are the questions i have.

will the e-manage plug right in to our ecu?

i'm assuming setting up the e-m will require dyno tuning?



the prices don't seem too bad.

Part # Description List Price

15500550 e-Manage (main unit) $379.00
15500901 Optional Injector Harness $38.50
15500902 Optional Ignition Harness $41.80
16401301 GReddy Pressure Sensor $120.00
16401406 Pressure Sensor Harness $35.00
TBA e-Manage Support Tool see AGSD

looks like you could buy the hardware for a n/a cl-s for $420.

blxmjx

Now aren't you glad I gave you the info on the e-manage?

mattg

if this works you're a god.

BoostedM3

blxmjx - U da man

Scalbert - Try to get the info asap b/c there's a sale on the emanage (30% off).

These are the prices:

Emanage main unit $265.30
Ignition Harness $29.26
Injector Harness $26.95

I have the software already

blxmjx

btw, i can get the greddy e-manage stuff at deeper than 30% off. No sale required. Just let me know.

mattg

this thread makes me happy.

BoostedM3

Dang, hook us up! YGPM

Smitty

Holy poop... this blew up.. hott hott.....

jproy

LOOKS good,

JIMBO

blxmjx

Ronnie asked what prices that I could do on the e-manage stuff. The prices aren't substantially lower than already posted, but lower nonetheless.

emanage main unit - $255
ignition harness-$28
injector harness-$26

if there is a buy of at least 5 people I can probably knock off a little more.

*on a sidenote I'd like to wait and see what scalbert comes up w/before actually endorsing the e-manage for your application. I don't want to sell something that you guys wouldn't benefit from.

BoostedM3

Thanks for the info

Smitty

Agreed 100%.. count me in after the above is complete

allmotor_2000

Have you guys checked if this E-manage can use the CPS output - Hall Effect sensor - for timing control??

This unit looks absolutely like what we need... if it can do timing as well!!

power3dfx

ahhhhh, more power to come! im in for sure when power can be shown.
but maybe we should get a map of intake/headers/ and pulleys. or would the i/h map suffice?

CLS2001_97124

Sweet!! Steve, see if you can make a call on this by this weekend, because that way, either you or I can give UniChip people a call and let them know that we don't need to waste their efforts. Plus, I rather not give up my car for a week if I don't have to.

I've check out the e-manage also, it looks good to me. BTW, Matt, my buddies up in Seattle have a dyno in their shop also, I'll hook you up with a dyno tuning session if you decide to get it.

p.s. That day, their turbo car was only running 10 psi because it was it's first time out, that's why they stayed in the 10's. That car is capable of well over 30 psi of boost.

mattg

that would be great. i would definately drive up there for a dyno session.

RUF87

So, which would be better and what are the pros and cons for us N/A folks?

Ruf

ModAddict

I was told we have two of these.

allmotor_2000

We have one CPS I believe... trust me I have broken it TWICE

ModAddict

I believe.

scalbert

Absolutely. Unfortunately the Yahoo listserv for the e-Manage has turned out to be worthless for my needs. So I'll make a call to Greddy later today to get my questions ansered.

Thanks again...

scalbert

The best part is no, it doesn't use (or rather alter) the crank position sensor for timing control. It controls the all six individual ignition control signal.

It basically intercepts the signals to each coil essentially allowing it to control ignition.

scalbert

I will drop ya a note later today once I talk to Greddy.

scalbert

We have a single crank position sensor. But there is also a cam position sensor.

scalbert

I dunno which ultimately would be better for you NA guys. I suspect that in technology wise the e-Manage may have the edge but both might yield similar gains. However, the e-Manage is less expensive.

Here is the dilemma; the Unichip will be pre-programmed for a particular application. The e-Manage will need to be tuned as there is no existing program created nor will Greddy take the time to do it. So that initial hardware cost savings is offset by the additional cost of tuning.

In addition, the e-Manage will not have a custom harness requiring someone to hack up their stock harness. The Unichip will come with an adapter so it will be plug and play.

However, I was thinking about this matter and it may make sense to organize this situation. If one of us would take the time to dyno tune and save programs for various stages of modifications, create a plug and play harness and package these with the e-Manage we might have something to go on. I am considering take on this task but I won't decide until I test at least one. I'll be making my own harness and if/when I go to the dyno for tuning if I can get a NA J32A2 vehicle there I will make up an additional harness to testing on it.

scalbert

No, not yet anyway...

RUF87

Thanks Scalbert.

I wish I had the time and lived closer to some of you gear heads. I really miss playing around with all that stuff.

I hope my older son contunues to show an interest in cars. Last week he asked me about getting a 426 Hemi Cuda and how much it was.
I told him even if I could afford one, it was too much car for a young kid. :P

Ruf

CLS2001_97124

Those are very good points about both applications Steve. I will wait to see what comes out of your research.

BoostedM3

My shop guy looked into the wiring the other day and he said he could make a harness for me, so I might be able to help you guys out on the harness.

Now, I just need to find a place for some dyno tuning.

scalbert

OK, just spoke to Greddy and gained some very helpful information.

First off, the injection control is exactly as I had thought and we both agreed that there wouldn't be any problem. We can use the E-manage and get complete control over the fueling including running larger injectors. This would allow us blown guys to remove the Comptech FPR, return to the stock FPR and tune the fuel curve as needed. I would definitely expect to see some gains, especially down low, through proper fueling.

As a side note, the ESM would also not be needed as this would do the same thing.

Now on to the timing, it can be done but with limitations. Based on our talk and what they have seen with the K series motor they can only retard timing. This does make sense as they are intercepting and retransmitting the ignition signal. By retarding it they just delay the output. But to advance it they would need to, but don't, know when the stock signal is triggering until it occurs. So this would be fine for us supercharged group as we need less timing. But it may not be of benefit for the NA crowd. Or at least a limited benefit since timing would not be able to be advanced.

I'm going ahead and ordering the E-manage, Support Tool and the Ignition and injector Harness. I'm also waiting on getting the connectors for the stock harness to make it a plug-n-play system. Once in and running I'll monitor the stock pulse width and determine what size injector to go to. I hope we can go with 370cc units but we might need 440cc in the end.

Now what to do Brian?? We are at kind of a cross roads in that it appears the Unichip may be better for the NA crowd whereas the e-Manage may be better for the supercharged. I say “may” I because we don’t know for sure until these things are tested. It would be nice to see if Dastek NA can gain insightful information from your car. But then again, if they can’t or the application isn’t what we though it could be, there is no sense in being without your vehicle for a week. I know the direction I am planning on taking now. I just am not sure what your best direction is.

scalbert

It is not really a problem of making a harness; I have employees who do this throughout the day, everyday. It is a problem of sourcing the OE connectors. I need to find out where they can be acquired; both the male and female sides.

typeR

i have the solution...though could be expensive for some...advance the cam gears which i think would advance timing in 20 or 25 degrees then use the emage to retard back down to a usable level

mattg

so if the e-manage cannot advance timing, the n/a crowd won't see any benefit?

:'(

scalbert

That would alter the valve opening and closing but not the ignition timing. Changing the cam timing is not advisable on a SOHC motor.

The ignition timing is primarily based on the crank position senor.

scalbert

Not 100% but it looks this way; at least with the e-Manage. However, the Unichip may still be an option.

Nevertheless, I will try it out on an NA CL-S/TL-S with the standard mods provided I can find someone local who will meet me at the dyno. Since I will have a harness, it should be easy enough.

scalbert

Just as another note. I am having Frog Engine Controls make the adapter. Once I get the e-Manage in I'll do a diagram for them to follow and they will make up the harness making this a true plug-n-play system.

Well, that is until I get a few maps tuned and saved.

BoostedM3

scalbert - Is there any way we can determine when the stock signal is triggering? Also, are you saying changing to more aggressive cams is not advisable on SOHC motor?

scalbert

Yep, you can watch each ignition coil signal to see when the ECU sends the trigger.

No, advancing or retarding the cam position on a SOHC is normally not a good thing. You loose up top or down low depending on the direction changed. Changing the cam its self would be nice but not currently available.

BoostedM3

What can monitor the ignition coil signal? Can the e-manage do that? So in theory, if we can find when the ECU sends the trigger, we can then try to advance the timing with the e-manage.

I am sending our stock cams to webcamshafts and I should have some specs of billet grinds within a month.