darrinb

thanks for taking the time to try to fix this steve....

how the hell did matt gain 22 whp @ redline??

and you are gaining like less than 5hp @ redline, what is going on here???

juice

The last thing that I want is for the project to fail. I paid $600+ for a product that said to produce X gains. It did not say that it will produce X gains once you spend more $ to get a dyno and custom tune. All I want is proof that I/we will get those proposed gains and I will be vary happy because we will have gotten what we paid for.

Will before and after runs using a G Tech work to determine any gains?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

G Tech is extremely inaccurate. I would not reccomend it as a primary tool. Possibly a secondary tool, but not exactly my 1st choice.

J.T.'s 3.2CL

G tech is pretty pointless IMO....Before and after dyno on the same day or track time will tell. I totally agree with your above statement however. I'm glad the 6 speed version never came to market... This mod just isn't for everybody.

juice

I have always heard that it is inaccurate as far as the actuals. But, it will show increases.

Jonesi

This is what I call failure hysteria.. Froma business stand point there's 30+ of us and because one person had a poor dyno doesn't mean he should dump thousands of dollars into dyno's and reprogramming.. Try and look and it from both sides..

I will be installing everything this weekend but won't be able to make it to a dyno til the weekend after..

If you are worried or concerned then don't install the chip and call Jack.. There's no need for all of us to sit here and go over the same points arguing back and forth.. Obviously if you have these concerns then you need to take it up a level because there's nothing this forum can help you with.

Jonesi

And JT is there anyway you can not post your Signature everytime so we can have more discussions on a page..

juice

Why don't we post a list of the 30+ people that we part of this GB? Next to each name, each member can put a short comment about their status. That way we can have everyone's opinion. Right now, all we are hearing about is the poor results. Just a suggestion.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Just poor results? I guess you missed my 6 posts about the post-tuning impressions and the dyno graphs.

darrinb

not everyone get theirs in yet

juice

No, I did not miss them. I have been paying close attention. But, your gains came after custome tuning. I call that, initially poor results, because out intentions were not to need custom tuning.

I am very happy that changes were made and that you were able to see the gains. I am just not convinced that your car is different than everyone elses.

I hope that I am wrong.

What do you think, sould i just put it in and see what happens?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

How else could you possibly judge the quality of the chip and/or what it is going to do to your car? I strongly suggest you install the chip and even go get a dyno test done. They aren't that expensive.

Jonesi

Juice I wouldn't do it if I was you.. You seem pretty hesitant about it.. i would wait for more dyno results before doing so.. Like Jack said there is a huge difference between "feeling" and "numbers"..

Once we get some more dynos, I may start a seperate page or something with results.. But a list of pages with opinions isn't helpful.. Only more clutter..

juice

mrsteve & Jonesi -

Thanks for both replies. Not sure what I am going to do as far as installing now or later. I am normally a try it type of person.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The reason why Jonesi doesn't want you to install it right now is because you already have a bias in your head that the chip won't work as it is supposed to. So if you install the chip you will be more likely to say you feel no gains or even power loss. If you do install it, get a dyno done. 'Nuff said.

darrinb

does the dyno place e-mail u the graphs for free???

EricL

Well, if you use the Gtech Competition on a flat road -- no bumps and dead flat -- it can give you some pretty good accurate results..

It's a tool, and can be is very easy to use correctly and incorrectly.

If you don't know what’s going on, it can give silly results (we've seen this). OTOH, if you know what to look for, it will give pretty good results IF and ONLY IF the unit is used carefully and in controlled situations.

Even dynos are easy to screw up. We've seen a few.

Of course, nothing beats a dyno for repeated runs and testing. (no kidding)

EricL

Again, this is misinformation.

It's another tool that can be used to gather very useful relative information when used correctly.

I've talked about this, and the search engine has plenty of data about this.

If you go to the track and have a bad launch, your not going to know much.

If you go to the track and don't insure a good set of runs that include before mod and after mod, you are going to get 80 responses about what could and couldn't have happened at the track. How many times have we seen results that have varied all over the map during a single session?

If you use the Gtech, and especially use the Competition model on a dead flat road with no elevation changes, you have a chance of getting some good relative results.

Just because some people use the Gtech -- and other accelerometers -- and figure they now have an 6-axis inertial nav unit with GPS correction, doesn't mean that everyone is a clown when obtaining results. I'm sure a guideline could be setup to allow people to at least get a basic idea of gains and/or losses with a given change in equipment, gas, or configuration.

EricL

Good idea. Have the main group buy moderator (that isn't me) edit the thread to eliminate and redirect any non-relevant banter to a parallel thread.

There is one "common" thread though... And, these are my opinions:

1. All the results are not in.
2. It "seems" that an option to allow ANY competent dyno operator or techie to tune the unit would have been important along with a "lowered expectation" marketing strategy. IOW, the importance of telling people that the unit has the potential for nice gains or minimal gains depending on myriad factors. Water over the falls now...
3. More options are better than fewer options.
4. Let the buyer beware.
5. Jumping to conclusions is not going to be helpful. AS I mentioned, in an earlier thread, the guys at SCC had a lot of trouble getting a map to work that consistently made more power for them from one city to another. And, they did a lot of work WITH the chip makers *and* had tons of resources to figure out what was going on.
6. AS with anything new, some folks are going to get mixed results; if you experiment, you are going to end up paying money tinkering with an item that is messing with factory tables that were never made to be messed with. See how well you get a product into the market by telling your buyers about every possible thing that can go wrong. Tell me that you really think that people want to know every possible story that resulted in a failure -- or could result in minimal gains. IMO, this is a sure way to never get something going.
7. Some of the results are going to be "crazy" due to possible Q/A Q/C issues (Someone can get a dud – hey?). Don't be surprised to find one or more units with a bad crimp or bad part causing one or more members to have some really weird problems. I seem to recall some posts about people soldering connections to eliminate bad connector problems. (BTW, I’m not saying this is what’s happening, just something to consider.)

YMMV

scalbert

You could and it will be very good if used correctly. As Eric mentioned, it is a tool which can be misused. Here is how I would validate any gains; you will need someone to help. This is not the normal method of using the unit. Do this with and without the Unichip.

While in a level location, turn it on and be sure it is reading close to 0.
Go out and find a nice flat area where you can make a pull in 3rd gear from 2k to redline.
Be sure to have the engine temps stable before doing the first run.
Hit the gas and have the passenger record the G values in 1k steps

The G values at these speeds should be a pretty accurate since there will be little squat. You might want to do several pulls at the same location in the same direction and the corresponding values. After all data is gathered, plot it in Excel.

BTW, don't expect larger changes, they may only be on the order 0.01 on the GTech. That small amount really requires the multiple runs in both set ups.

Just an idea...

Jonesi

Steve is right those are my thoughts..

Jonesi

Yea, I'm not sure how to keep this thread clean and still have the important data and results without this thread turning into a 100 page thread.. Maybe if you do get a dyno done create another thread and then I can close it and link it to this thread.. Steve maybe you should do this with your 2nd dyno.

blader

One question .. How would it be possible to get a stock ecu\unichip dyno on the same day? Whether you do the chip run first then stock run, or vice versa, in both cases the second of the two runs won't have allowed for driving and letting the ECU adjust ..

Another thing I dont get in Jacks email is he says its impossible to feel gains at part throttle. However thats where I feel it the most! Honestly the chip feels strongest to me at half throttle through like 2nd and 3rd .. and I can feel quite a bit extra torque when accelerating at low RPM on the highway in 5th, especially in 4th. Weird that he says its impossible to be felt at those points.

So I guess my options are .. go get it dyno tuned at a unichip shop, if all is well, then fine, but if it needs to be further tuned then get it tuned by them and unichip will reimburse me 100$? Or.... I can just not get dynoed and hope that all is well and I'm not running too lean (which will be safe for the motor I'm assuming?)

Oh and .. is calling Jack the only way to find out if there is a local unichip shop?

I just want to see the gains I deserve with everything tuned to the best of its ability, and a safe a\f ratio.

Jonesi

I tried searching on their site for a local UniChip dealer and couldn't find anything so yes your best option is to call UniChip to find the local dealer..

darrinb

ok, i called to set up some dyno dates...

the guy i was talking to was wonder why the hell we were using uni-chip to tune the cars and said its possible w/ the e-manage. i explained to him that e-man. hasnt worked on n/a applications for our cars, then went on to tell me that who ever was trying to tune the e-manage to our cars had no idea what they were doing. he is 100 percent confident he can tune the e-man to my car. the manage only costs 300+1 hour of tuning at 120 dollars. if the uni-chip dont work for me i will def try this route.

Louie11

Just installed mine at work. Took between 15-25min. first start was slightly hesitant,then started right up and idled fine. Started it two more times just to check and everything is perfect, no cel light. It's like it was never installed even with my remote start. Will be taking for a ride at lunch and the ride home. I'll post review later tonight

darrinb

lets see how louie's mid west car reacts to the map

Jonesi

There's another guy Cory 02 that had his dyno'd and I'm trying to help him get the dynos posted.. So we'll start to see some actual data soon..

derelict

Blader this is EXACTLY what I have been thinking through this whole dyno/test process. With the "learning" time required by the ECU I don't see how you can ever do a same day (or even same week) compare.

scalbert

Incorrect, the fuel tables adjust imediately and should be stable within a few minutes. Hook up a scan tool and watch the STFT and LTFT to verification.

Jonesi

Best thing to do is run the UniChip first then the stock ECU on later pulls..

Jonesi

Ok, Here's some Dyno's from Cody 02, I had to enlarge them to see better:

CLS2001_97124

Jack gave me a call yesterday afternoon, we had a long chat about what is going on with the first maybe 1/2 dozen people who have now received and installed the chip.

And I think Jack's email reply to Mrsteve is more than fair on their part, to take care of any problems the buyers might have with the product.

Think of it this way. Maybe Mrsteves car was a factory freak to begin with.. he's car already runs leaner than at least both Matt's and my car, hell my car pre-chipped with about the same mod produced a lot less power than his pre-chip dyno. I mean, don't we all already accepted the fact that sometimes one car from the factory will perform better than the rest or perhaps worse? Maybe he's stock ECU was a bit different?

G-Tech

IMO, even if the conditions weren't perfect (ie flat road etc..) I do think the result gain/loss will still answer the question about power gain. But not in the sense of exact HP/TQ, but more of a percentage gain. As long as the person using the GTECH be consistent about each run, its just simple mathmatics to calculate the percentage gain before and after the Chip. Although I'm not saying the % itself is accurate, but it will give us a good idea on if the Chip is helping or not.

CLS2001_97124

Am I reading this right? looks like his a/f is also about 14? but it does show some gains.. but I'm not sure which graph is for which dyno. (with or without chip)

Jonesi

Yea. 14..

Brian do you have jacks email address? I want to send him as much data as possible to help them out..

CLS2001_97124

jack@unichip.us

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Looks closer to 15:1 to me. Especially in Vtec. Running lean isn't that bad though... better gas mileage and cleaner for the environment too

Looks like your gains are similar to mine, I just put out more power. This could easily be explained by differences in dynos. What gear did you dyno in and was it a DynoJet?

Jonesi

Any dyno charts posted I will forward to Jack to provide them with all the data they could possibly need..

Cody 02 - Could you post your mods, location and any other pertinent info.. Thanks..!

cody02

Yea, the runs were made on a dynojet 244x I think was the model number, hot as hell and humid in there yesterday... 90+ degs. Summer time in Richmond VA.

The 210.97hp run was with the unichip and the 204.98 run was without. First run was with chip then I unhooked it and made two more runs without. The recorder lost info on the one run about 6200 rpms... might have been a little higher hp then noted. I didn't unhook the battery when I disconnected the unichip so ECU should retain all normal settings.
Absolutes are lower than I would like to seen but it was the differentials we needed for this unichip verification. There are gains through the whole band but the open loop A/F ratios with the chip are leaner than I think they should be. I'd like to talk it over with them. Not sure if the it the open loop A/F ratios were closer to factory that I might see even more gains and not be running the engine so lean.

cody02

my mods.......