Uni-Chip Explained
01-12-2004, 12:58 PM
#1
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
Uni-Chip Explained
Hi guys,
Jake had UniChip had a chance to review through our threads about the unichip possibilities.
UniChip Thread
Here are some of his response.
Brian,
Thanks for the link. I took a look at the last bit of it, and I'll throw out a
couple of thoughts.
First, what happened in Sonoma last year is water under the bridge. We're
integrating differently into the electrical system and have a re-designed Unichip module
which was created specifically for this application. As you've see, it works with no
problems.
Second, for anyone with a warranty on their car, have a good time removing and
re-installing Greddy's system to take the car into the dealership. Once of the biggest
reasons we've moved to the PnP system is to facilitate not only installation but also
removal. The dealerships are within their rights to deny an engine related warranty issue
if they find any ECU modifications. With our PnP harness, when it's removed, there's no
indication (electrical or physical) that it was ever in the vehicle. This is a straight
PnP harness with no cutting or splicing, and it uses all OE Honda/Acura plugs and
connectors. And, yes, most dealers care since it means they get to save money by not
honoring a warranty claim.
If we get a group buy going, I'll be happy to dyno a 6-speed car and would
definitely want to do it to ensure we have the correct map. That's not a problem and
won't add any time; we'll make the same sort of power on the 6-speed as the auto.
Fourth, yes it works with Nitrous and in fact will provide direct, progressive
Nitrous control and obviates the need for a separate Nitrous controller.
One PnP harness isn't the same as another PnP harness... ours is unique and has
the correct plug to work with the Unichip which nobody else's does. Ours also connects to
the correct pins for what we need to tie into. Additionally, the 2-year defect warranty
is only valid if the Unichip is installed via a PnP or a qualified Unichip shop... I don't
warrant what a guy does in his garage.
We did no fuel tuning closed loop on your car, which is pretty typical for a
relatively stock car since the OE ECU learns in closed loop anyway. Below ~85% throttle
(which has nothing to do with rpm at all) your car is running completely "stock" so any
gas mileage changes are the result of the other mods not the Unichip. In closed loop, as
currently set up on your car, it's simply through-putting the stock signal unaltered.
The comment about the Unichip not being able to reduce timing is flat wrong.
Unlike Greddy's system which can ONLY retard timing, Unichip has complete control over
timing, fuel, and boost.
It's true we don't directly drive the injectors, but that isn't at all an issue
with your cars... even the SC ones. The car comes so rich from the factory the required
adjustment is well within what the Unichip can do. It's not true that we can't control
the OE injectors, we just control them through a different scheme. We sell lots of stuff
to lots of SC and turbo cars and have no issues what so ever perfectly controlling
mixture. The reason we have the ability to directly drive additional injectors is for
applications where the OE injectors simply can't get the job done... i.e. their at 100%
duty cycle. In that case, adding additional injectors is possible, and we can control
them but often the car won't idle properly because the injectors are too big.
The only "advantage" Greddy's system offers is data logging and limited
adjustability. To get that, you have to buy the e-manage, the EO1, and the ignition
wiring kit which runs nearly $1100. If you have a dyno, and a lambda meter, and a few
years of tuning experience MAYBE those things will be useful. However, even after
spending $400+ more and assuming you do have all that stuff, you still can't advance
timing, you void your warranty, and won't make more power... and we're the only guys who
put that performance warranty in writing. CL or S2000, or virtually any other vehicle on
the planet, it doesn't matter.
No matter what mechanical parts you put on the car... cams, compression, SC,
headers, whatever, the Unichip can correct timing, fuel and (if applicable) boost to get
the most power out of them. Any parts.
I'll be happy to answer any other questions which folks have, but at this point,
as you point out, we're ready to build some kits. If guys want a GB, we're ready to go
and can have kits in guys hands ~ eight weeks from the time we start.
Cheers,
Jack
Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll Free 866.643.7400; 503.640.7465
So what do you guys think??
Jake had UniChip had a chance to review through our threads about the unichip possibilities.
UniChip Thread
Here are some of his response.
Brian,
Thanks for the link. I took a look at the last bit of it, and I'll throw out a
couple of thoughts.
First, what happened in Sonoma last year is water under the bridge. We're
integrating differently into the electrical system and have a re-designed Unichip module
which was created specifically for this application. As you've see, it works with no
problems.
Second, for anyone with a warranty on their car, have a good time removing and
re-installing Greddy's system to take the car into the dealership. Once of the biggest
reasons we've moved to the PnP system is to facilitate not only installation but also
removal. The dealerships are within their rights to deny an engine related warranty issue
if they find any ECU modifications. With our PnP harness, when it's removed, there's no
indication (electrical or physical) that it was ever in the vehicle. This is a straight
PnP harness with no cutting or splicing, and it uses all OE Honda/Acura plugs and
connectors. And, yes, most dealers care since it means they get to save money by not
honoring a warranty claim.
If we get a group buy going, I'll be happy to dyno a 6-speed car and would
definitely want to do it to ensure we have the correct map. That's not a problem and
won't add any time; we'll make the same sort of power on the 6-speed as the auto.
Fourth, yes it works with Nitrous and in fact will provide direct, progressive
Nitrous control and obviates the need for a separate Nitrous controller.
One PnP harness isn't the same as another PnP harness... ours is unique and has
the correct plug to work with the Unichip which nobody else's does. Ours also connects to
the correct pins for what we need to tie into. Additionally, the 2-year defect warranty
is only valid if the Unichip is installed via a PnP or a qualified Unichip shop... I don't
warrant what a guy does in his garage.
We did no fuel tuning closed loop on your car, which is pretty typical for a
relatively stock car since the OE ECU learns in closed loop anyway. Below ~85% throttle
(which has nothing to do with rpm at all) your car is running completely "stock" so any
gas mileage changes are the result of the other mods not the Unichip. In closed loop, as
currently set up on your car, it's simply through-putting the stock signal unaltered.
The comment about the Unichip not being able to reduce timing is flat wrong.
Unlike Greddy's system which can ONLY retard timing, Unichip has complete control over
timing, fuel, and boost.
It's true we don't directly drive the injectors, but that isn't at all an issue
with your cars... even the SC ones. The car comes so rich from the factory the required
adjustment is well within what the Unichip can do. It's not true that we can't control
the OE injectors, we just control them through a different scheme. We sell lots of stuff
to lots of SC and turbo cars and have no issues what so ever perfectly controlling
mixture. The reason we have the ability to directly drive additional injectors is for
applications where the OE injectors simply can't get the job done... i.e. their at 100%
duty cycle. In that case, adding additional injectors is possible, and we can control
them but often the car won't idle properly because the injectors are too big.
The only "advantage" Greddy's system offers is data logging and limited
adjustability. To get that, you have to buy the e-manage, the EO1, and the ignition
wiring kit which runs nearly $1100. If you have a dyno, and a lambda meter, and a few
years of tuning experience MAYBE those things will be useful. However, even after
spending $400+ more and assuming you do have all that stuff, you still can't advance
timing, you void your warranty, and won't make more power... and we're the only guys who
put that performance warranty in writing. CL or S2000, or virtually any other vehicle on
the planet, it doesn't matter.
No matter what mechanical parts you put on the car... cams, compression, SC,
headers, whatever, the Unichip can correct timing, fuel and (if applicable) boost to get
the most power out of them. Any parts.
I'll be happy to answer any other questions which folks have, but at this point,
as you point out, we're ready to build some kits. If guys want a GB, we're ready to go
and can have kits in guys hands ~ eight weeks from the time we start.
Cheers,
Jack
Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll Free 866.643.7400; 503.640.7465
So what do you guys think??
01-12-2004, 01:04 PM
#2
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
Btw,
He also pointed out on the phone that to his knowledge, the e-mange map operates on a 16 x16 plot. Where as Unip uses a 208x256 plot point. This means more fine tuning for the Uni-Chip.
Please don't flame if you already bought the e-manage, Jake is not trying to say bad things about e-manage, he is just simply trying to point out the differences as well as some advantages of the Uni-Chip.
Hope this info helps!! Remember I'm just the messenger.
He also pointed out on the phone that to his knowledge, the e-mange map operates on a 16 x16 plot. Where as Unip uses a 208x256 plot point. This means more fine tuning for the Uni-Chip.
Please don't flame if you already bought the e-manage, Jake is not trying to say bad things about e-manage, he is just simply trying to point out the differences as well as some advantages of the Uni-Chip.
Hope this info helps!! Remember I'm just the messenger.
01-12-2004, 01:10 PM
#3
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
And here is his follow-up for what I mentioned above.
Brian,
Thanks for the call. Per our discussion, another important difference between the
two systems is map "density" which is to say how may control each unit uses to control the
engine. Most other units use somewhere in the vicinity of a 16x16 map, which gives them
256 points. Our maps are much denser and each map contains over 53,000 points.
What that means from a performance standpoint is that each of our "ideal"
correction values is spread over a much smaller are or rpm and load. For comparison
purposes, assuming a 6,000 rpm redline and a 500 rpm idle, each value from a 256 point map
covers 343 rpm and 6.25% load (throttle or MAP). In that same engine, each Unichip point
covers 21.4 rpm and 0.48% load. That precision equates to a far tighter map fit which
means better power and throttle response.
We don't guarantee power and quality just for fun... it's a superior product with
a long proven track record.
Cheers,
Jack
Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll Free 866.643.7400; 503.640.7465
So again... I think if we get enough people they will build us a pnp harness.
Brian,
Thanks for the call. Per our discussion, another important difference between the
two systems is map "density" which is to say how may control each unit uses to control the
engine. Most other units use somewhere in the vicinity of a 16x16 map, which gives them
256 points. Our maps are much denser and each map contains over 53,000 points.
What that means from a performance standpoint is that each of our "ideal"
correction values is spread over a much smaller are or rpm and load. For comparison
purposes, assuming a 6,000 rpm redline and a 500 rpm idle, each value from a 256 point map
covers 343 rpm and 6.25% load (throttle or MAP). In that same engine, each Unichip point
covers 21.4 rpm and 0.48% load. That precision equates to a far tighter map fit which
means better power and throttle response.
We don't guarantee power and quality just for fun... it's a superior product with
a long proven track record.
Cheers,
Jack
Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll Free 866.643.7400; 503.640.7465
01-12-2004, 02:17 PM
#5
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
It basically sits right besides the Stock ECU, so with the covers put back on, it looks stock. Not sure about prices though.. feel free to call their 800 number. 
Now i'm just waiting to see a dyno on the 5A and the final price.
01-12-2004, 02:41 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Baltimore, MD
Age: 47
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...&pagenumber=19
at the bottom of page. Price will definitely be the determining factor
at the bottom of page. Price will definitely be the determining factor
Trending Topics
01-12-2004, 02:55 PM
#11
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Uni-Chip Explained
Originally posted by CLS2001_97124
The comment about the Unichip not being able to reduce timing is flat wrong.
Unlike Greddy's system which can ONLY retard timing, Unichip has complete control over
timing, fuel, and boost.
It's true we don't directly drive the injectors, but that isn't at all an issue
with your cars... even the SC ones. The car comes so rich from the factory the required
adjustment is well within what the Unichip can do. It's not true that we can't control
the OE injectors, we just control them through a different scheme.
The only "advantage" Greddy's system offers is data logging and limited
adjustability. To get that, you have to buy the e-manage, the EO1, and the ignition
wiring kit which runs nearly $1100.
The comment about the Unichip not being able to reduce timing is flat wrong.
Unlike Greddy's system which can ONLY retard timing, Unichip has complete control over
timing, fuel, and boost.
It's true we don't directly drive the injectors, but that isn't at all an issue
with your cars... even the SC ones. The car comes so rich from the factory the required
adjustment is well within what the Unichip can do. It's not true that we can't control
the OE injectors, we just control them through a different scheme.
The only "advantage" Greddy's system offers is data logging and limited
adjustability. To get that, you have to buy the e-manage, the EO1, and the ignition
wiring kit which runs nearly $1100.
I don't believe they are fully aware of the boost cut issue in the factory ECU. They cannot supply more fuel for a boosted application by increasing the MAP signal; the ECU would stop that. Maybe on other applications an increase of the primary airflow signal can be done to get more fuel but not here when under boost. However, this is not direct control, it is indirect control. Direct control requires tapping into the actual injector signal. The additional injectors can handle this just fine but would require additional mechanical installation.
They may need to go back and re-price the e-Manage. The whole e-Manage set up is available for about $470.
Other than that it seemed sound and still a great option.
And yes, the e-Manage dyno is just around the corner and will be available with a PnP harness for about $550. It is good to have options in this area which we had none just a while ago.
01-12-2004, 03:45 PM
#14
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by CLS2001_97124
another important difference between the
two systems is map "density" which is to say how may control each unit uses to control the
engine. Most other units use somewhere in the vicinity of a 16x16 map, which gives them
256 points. Our maps are much denser and each map contains over 53,000 points.
another important difference between the
two systems is map "density" which is to say how may control each unit uses to control the
engine. Most other units use somewhere in the vicinity of a 16x16 map, which gives them
256 points. Our maps are much denser and each map contains over 53,000 points.
However, the e-Manage does not do solid steps when going from one cell to another. It does interpolate the value based on the surrounding cells which simulates greater resolution.
01-12-2004, 05:13 PM
#15
So when will the PnP hardness be ready for the '03 CLS 6sp and has UniChip already done the profiling for the 6sp? Also, are there any qualified UniChip shops in the Bay Area?
01-12-2004, 05:25 PM
#16
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
Originally posted by cls6sp03
So when will the PnP hardness be ready for the '03 CLS 6sp and has UniChip already done the profiling for the 6sp? Also, are there any qualified UniChip shops in the Bay Area?
So when will the PnP hardness be ready for the '03 CLS 6sp and has UniChip already done the profiling for the 6sp? Also, are there any qualified UniChip shops in the Bay Area?
If we get a group buy going, I'll be happy to dyno a 6-speed car and would
definitely want to do it to ensure we have the correct map. That's not a problem and
won't add any time; we'll make the same sort of power on the 6-speed as the auto.
.
.
.
at this point,
as you point out, we're ready to build some kits. If guys want a GB, we're ready to go
and can have kits in guys hands ~ eight weeks from the time we start.
01-12-2004, 11:02 PM
#22
One who Laps
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago Area
Age: 55
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought the chip for the auto was done and awaiting a dyno but I was wondering if it was for sale anyway.
I thought $600 was going to be the asking price last I saw but I was hoping for a group buy.
I thought $600 was going to be the asking price last I saw but I was hoping for a group buy.
01-13-2004, 05:56 AM
#23
Safety Car
$600 is too much considering you have to have THEM tune it depending on your setup. I would never trust someone who churns out a map for an S/C'd car, for example... every car is different.
Like Scalbert said... $450'ish for the E-manage and maybe another $125 for PnP harness - although I'd like to get a hold of that harness!!
Like Scalbert said... $450'ish for the E-manage and maybe another $125 for PnP harness - although I'd like to get a hold of that harness!!
01-13-2004, 11:26 AM
#24
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
Originally posted by darrinb
this is lookin pricey for little hp
this is lookin pricey for little hp
Anyway, pretty much most of the question you guys are asking are already there between the 2 threads. I don't work for UniChip, so I will not even try to defend or argue about the 2 products.
But for the love of God. One last time with feeling. For those people who refuse to read the threads, or even this one.
The UniChip is now avilable for the 5AT CLS with H/I/E. And if we do GB of 20, they will do a 6 speed for free so 6 speed people will have their own map, as well as making a PnP harness. The price is between $700-750 with or without GB.
If you guys think it's too pricy, it's totally cool, don't matter to me. I'm just here to share the info.
01-13-2004, 02:28 PM
#26
lover and fighter
But for the love of God. One last time with feeling. For those people who refuse to read the threads, or even this one.
01-13-2004, 02:35 PM
#27
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
Originally posted by r10apple
It is getting mind numbing...And more threads are spawning confusing the original threads even more. People, please read...
It is getting mind numbing...And more threads are spawning confusing the original threads even more. People, please read...
01-13-2004, 03:01 PM
#28
Senior Moderator
i'm very interested in the chip. but i want to see what happens w/ the emanage before i commit to unichip.
props to Brian for keeping this thing going.
props to Brian for keeping this thing going.
01-13-2004, 03:16 PM
#29
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
But matt, why even spend the money on E-manage when you can probably get a tuned unichip free if you bring it in to their office with your new setup??
But I agree, I think both e-manage and Unichip has their own advantage and disavantages, the only reason why I have the chip, is becuase my car was used for their R&D, otherwise I would be just as interested in the E-manage too.
matt, the dyno at Torque Freaks is normally $50 for 3 pulls, they give you all the info, including the wideband read out. Wanna go some time?
But I agree, I think both e-manage and Unichip has their own advantage and disavantages, the only reason why I have the chip, is becuase my car was used for their R&D, otherwise I would be just as interested in the E-manage too.
matt, the dyno at Torque Freaks is normally $50 for 3 pulls, they give you all the info, including the wideband read out. Wanna go some time?
01-13-2004, 03:31 PM
#31
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by sonor kid
The emanage will require quite a bit of dyno time to tune properly,
maybe in the area of $200 to $300.
The emanage will require quite a bit of dyno time to tune properly,
maybe in the area of $200 to $300.
Not really, we will have a variety of programs available to load accounting for the majority of the users. That is why I am getting a couple of vehicles to dyno the e-Manage on.
01-13-2004, 03:32 PM
#32
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by CLS2001_97124
But matt, why even spend the money on E-manage when you can probably get a tuned unichip free if you bring it in to their office with your new setup??
But I agree, I think both e-manage and Unichip has their own advantage and disavantages, the only reason why I have the chip, is becuase my car was used for their R&D, otherwise I would be just as interested in the E-manage too.
matt, the dyno at Torque Freaks is normally $50 for 3 pulls, they give you all the info, including the wideband read out. Wanna go some time?
But matt, why even spend the money on E-manage when you can probably get a tuned unichip free if you bring it in to their office with your new setup??
But I agree, I think both e-manage and Unichip has their own advantage and disavantages, the only reason why I have the chip, is becuase my car was used for their R&D, otherwise I would be just as interested in the E-manage too.
matt, the dyno at Torque Freaks is normally $50 for 3 pulls, they give you all the info, including the wideband read out. Wanna go some time?
i'll call you.
01-13-2004, 03:40 PM
#33
One who Laps
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago Area
Age: 55
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by scalbert
It will??
Not really, we will have a variety of programs available to load accounting for the majority of the users. That is why I am getting a couple of vehicles to dyno the e-Manage on.
It will??
Not really, we will have a variety of programs available to load accounting for the majority of the users. That is why I am getting a couple of vehicles to dyno the e-Manage on.
If I want one today, it will require dyno time.
01-13-2004, 04:10 PM
#34
lover and fighter
If I want one today, it will require dyno time.
Next time, I'll make sure I check with you first..
01-13-2004, 04:23 PM
#35
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by sonor kid
I guess if you do the test and tune on a N/A auto, then no.
If I want one today, it will require dyno time.
I guess if you do the test and tune on a N/A auto, then no.
If I want one today, it will require dyno time.
I have also sourced the parts needed to make a PnP harness so that is prepared for.
As for being available right now, none actually are for a PnP system.
But by all means, get the Unichip. It is an excellent unit which would provide something we all have desired for some time.
01-13-2004, 04:50 PM
#37
One who Laps
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago Area
Age: 55
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by scalbert
You must not have followed any of the threads. I will be dynoing a TL-S (r10apple) with the standard mods. I will also be dynoing an AV6 so the Accord guys have an option. TAG will be dynoing a blown AV6 with the e-Manage. So we should have just about every option covered.
I have also sourced the parts needed to make a PnP harness so that is prepared for.
As for being available right now, none actually are for a PnP system.
But by all means, get the Unichip. It is an excellent unit which would provide something we all have desired for some time.
You must not have followed any of the threads. I will be dynoing a TL-S (r10apple) with the standard mods. I will also be dynoing an AV6 so the Accord guys have an option. TAG will be dynoing a blown AV6 with the e-Manage. So we should have just about every option covered.
I have also sourced the parts needed to make a PnP harness so that is prepared for.
As for being available right now, none actually are for a PnP system.
But by all means, get the Unichip. It is an excellent unit which would provide something we all have desired for some time.
I was just stating we don't have one dynoed as of today.
The unichip is tuned and ready to install now, just no plug and play.
Many thanks to you Scalbert for making much of what's going on in these two areas possible.
Tell TAG I want a piece of that Accord soon!
01-13-2004, 05:40 PM
#38
Revving at 9K...
Thread Starter
Originally posted by r10apple
Shyuddup! I mean it's mind numbing watching YOU re-explain a post that is right in front of everyone...I would personally rather eat glass...
Shyuddup! I mean it's mind numbing watching YOU re-explain a post that is right in front of everyone...I would personally rather eat glass...
lol.. my bad.. I miss read your post.. one of those "wish I could hear you say it in person" kind of statements to pick up the right meaning.
I was just getting frustrated with people keep on asking if it's out yet, or how much it is, or if the PnP is there. I've only stated about 4, 5 times. :o
Again.. it's my bad.. please accept my apologies.
01-14-2004, 03:16 PM
#40
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: San Marcos
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After reading the above posts I am very interested in these mods (the e-manage and unichip). Just for clarification, the Unichip would be more useful for N/A cars right? However, if I was planning to install a 60-shot Nitrous, should I look more toward the e-manage?
Again, I did read through the posts, I just wanted some clarification on this for all of us out there who aren't as "technically proficient" as others .
Again, I did read through the posts, I just wanted some clarification on this for all of us out there who aren't as "technically proficient" as others
.