allmotor_2000

Guys.

I am investigating a way of making some serious power by replacing/modifying our cam shafts. I will probably do a one-off
thing, but I want to guage the general interest in something like this.

If/when I do this, I will provide before/after dyno-sheets. They won't be billet (too expensive), but either weld & regrind or just regrind - have to determine specs. They will obviously be heat-treated for longevity.

Goals are:

(1) Retain stock idle - work on the VTEC lobe only with maybe some mild work on the side lobes for midrange torque
(2) Retain stock valve springs - I doubt anybody will want a race-car... so don't want to make this an expensive swap
(3) Power goals of 15-25whp... until 7800RPM (should be safe for our motors)

I estimate a price (two cams) of around $1000 initially and maybe a little less after that.

Headers, exhausts, blah, blah, blah really only alter the breathing characteristics of the motor.... cams make real power!

devnull

Absofvckinglutely!!!

(I now represent 100% of the voting pool)..

LiQiCE

Any disadvantages to doing this? Would the $1000 include a new set of cams or would you need to send in your existing ones? (You said re-grind so it sounded like you'd be using existing cams)...

If you got the 3.5L upgrade, would this still work? Might be a great combination to do if so!!! Not to mention an extra 25whp would be sweet.

bigman

LOOOK, if this will help a TL-P owner as well, then i am all for it.

darrinb

if i had the $$$ i would, a G is too much for me

typeR

yo

typeR

allmotor how will you achieve getting the extra 500 turns out of the motor? that alone has to be good for a tenth?

Ant7701

Depends on the cash...but I'm down

RUF87

Boy those days of $100 headers and camshafts are long gone. :P

I understand that one can't compare Chevy V8 aftermarket prices to Acura, but $1000 is out of my price at this time. Especially considering that there is still the labor costs to contend with.

Although, if the money situation were to improve, and after the warranty expires in 10 months, it is a thought. Especially if it produces 20+ WHP.

Ruf

allmotor_2000

I threw the $1000 out cuz that's what the initial few might cost. I can't take my stock cams and work on them... need to buy another set.

I would think that if it were a core exchange (return your stocks), it might be in the $600'ish range.

But... first things first.. they need to work

Zapata

as long as ther aren't any problems down the line......i'd pay.

allmotor_2000

That I can't guarantee.... but I don't plan on making the grind too aggressive... you lose the streetability. I suppose for $600'ish... 15whp is decent.

mattg

how involved is the cam swap process?

RDX

Have u check cam spec off the 03 Accord V6?

typeR

how will you get the motor to turn 7800

allmotor_2000

I am not sure if the '03 Accord has more aggressive cams... I actualy doubt it. I need to look at a dyno first and then the actual cam profile.

To swap the cams:

(1) Remove intake manifold (20 mins)
(2) Remove valve covers (10 mins)
(3) Remove lifters etc. (30 mins)
(4) Remove cams (5 mins)
(5) Replace cam seal and install new cams (10 mins)
(6) Valve Adjustment (25 mins)
(7) Redo (3 through 1)... (60 mins)

I say its a half-day job done slowly.

LegendC

Don't forget the cost of new seals for the intake manifold, valve covers. Wouldn't the cam gears and timing belt have to be undone as well? Just judging from the Headgasket work I helped with on my car this would be a 8.5/10 on the difficulty scale.

allmotor_2000

You don't have to take the head out... that's a LOT of work. You don't have to take the valve or anything out... just the valve-train ABOVE the cam.

Vavle cover gaskets and cam-seals will come to under $50.

It's really not a tough job... re-use timing belt... you arn't taking all that junk off. There are tricks to do the cam-gears/timing-belt a very easy job.

CLpower

allmotor, i'm in, and I bet you'd get ALOT of interest over on accordv6.com. Alot of them are looking into the typeS cams, and this would be an even better option.

CLpower

here are the stats on the cams

Engine: Primary, VTEC, Secondary, Exhaust
J30A1: 34.615, 36.210, 31.188, 36.076
J32A1: 34.737, 36.445, 34.919, 36.326
J32A2: 34.737, 36.445, 34.919, 36.389
J30A4: 35.041, 36.445, 35.284, 36.326


here is a right up on them over on av6

http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...threadid=22719

RDX

the J30A4 Engine is quite interesting ....

it gives us rough Idea what the new J32A4 or J35A4 will be.

scalbert

I might be interested but I assume they would be designed for NA use primarily. SC'd engines normaly want less overlap than probably what will be provided.

ZodiakTL

i would definitely get it assuming i could still use the CT supercharger with it. 1000 does not sound like a lot for those gains

scalbert

The problem with a cam designed to produce measureable gains on an NA car is primarily too much overlap.

Since the SC is forcing in air at higher than ambient pressure too much overlap can cause turbulance and you can loose some of the air/fuel mix out the exhaust. This can, in some rare cases, cause you to lose power. But at the least, not gain nearly as much as the NA vehicle did.

This is moreso with a SC'd vehicle over a turbo since the turbo has some inherent backpressure. But it is still somewhat applicable with the turbo too.

Then you also have the issue with lift. It is not as greatly needed on a forced induction vehicle.

In other words, I would not assume that a cam designed for an NA motor would make the same power gains as on a blown vehicle

CLS2001_97124

I'm sorry, I know this is probably a real dumb question, but I thought our cars only have one cam? (SOHC) Can someone help me understand what it means to have a "set" of "cams" for this upgrade? Thanks!!

Is it because we have a "V" engine configuration?

scalbert

You answered it yourself. The V pattern has two banks of three cylinders and one head each. Each head has a single cam therefore two cams are needed. If we had DOHC we would potentially need four cams.

moomaster_99

Scalbert a lot of the mild cams today are ground to meet FI applications as well. It's the wild cams that cause problems for FI.

typeR

ok...im not invisible....scalbert ,allmotor,EricL ...how difficult would it be to remove or mask ,trick, the 7200 rpm fuelcut ,revlimit, so that we could go another 500 turns????

ModAddict

On forced induction you would want more duration on the intake, higher lift on the exhaust, and less overlap between int. and ex.,....I think.

scalbert

You would not want to try and fool this part of the engine controls. A reprogrammed ECU would be the minimum. Just get a programmable DFI and you can turn whatever you desire...

scalbert

From the book Maximum Boost by Corky Bell:

"Make no mistake in the fact that turbo performance cams are very different from atmospheric performance cams. The characteristics of long duration and high overlap for atmo cams are unwelcome in a turbo system...

... Thus the 'turbo cam' tends to become a low duration, very limited overlap cam."

Although he mentions turbo in this book, it is a book about building turbo engines, it does apply in a similar fashion to superchargers. He touches on similar statement in the newer book he put out "Superchargers".

The whole basis for this cam job would be to work on the VTEC range which would certainly increase lift and duration. Possibly to a point to where power is not gained or even lost.

ModAddict

I was thinking the longer duration, or even a quicker ramp, on the int. would allow more air/fuel in, and the higher lift exhaust would let more exhaust volume out,......but I to Corky for sure. My blower is fiiiiiinally on the way, so I won't be looking for cams soon, but I've been on the edge of my seat following your boost upgrade pulley mods!

ModAddict

allmotor, sorry for the thread jacking.

I am RobG

i'll buy it

jproy

For $600, when the warranty goes, if I stay N/A, I would defiantly get it for 20whp.

Jim

ChucksTL_RENAMED

Allmotor if it works on the TL-P engine too count me in.

Caddyİ

I would consider it....

Maybe Steve Would Consider letting me pay him to do mine....

I need another excuse to come down for a nice long productive weekend in HOTLanta...and its nice suburbs

I have'nt seen a Braves Game in 2 years

Doom878

We have a groupbuy set up for the cams at www.v6performance.net (formerly accordv6.com). So maybe after we get the cams, we can ship them to wherever and get them worked on. The cams will cost $2xx and the work for $600 per Allmotor. Talkk about big change for Accords.

allmotor_2000

Whoa... you guys are kind of putting the cart before the horse here.

I don't know how long (or how many iterations) it will take before I can get anything done... so let's wait a bit

scalbert

So are you saying that my cams will not be delivered tomorrow?? I want my unsupplied money back...