SFLA_Type-S

Hey Allmotor,

I was looking on ebay to see how much it would cost to buy all the parts needed to build a custom turbo for my car. I stumbled upon a Garrett T3 (used) for $275 & a new Garrett T25/T3 for $450. Can you please take a look them & tell me if the description states anything might be wrong with them or if they will even fit? Also can you tell me if this intercooler would fit my car.

I would like to start buying the parts little by little & would appreciate it if you could give me a list of parts I would need (ie: turbo, downpipe, intercooler, BOV, fuel management etc.) to have my own custom turbo built. Of course, I would bring it to my local tuner shop to do the fabrication. I would not attempt to do this myself I just don't have skills like you do.

KCPreki11

He DID list it all before...

allmotor_2000

Actually both turbos are too small. You need a T3/T04E (T04B) at the minimum... or else you won't operate within the 'efficient region' of the turbo (for a given engine RPM and subsequent volume of air). Also... I really wouldn't recommend a used turbo... and the T25/T3 you see might be a rebuild... its hard to tell. A new turbo of a good brand sells for around $550 at the cheapest... and depending on the trim you want... expect to pay close to $650. You also need all the turbine inlet/outlet flanges and oil-feed/oil-return flanges... running another $100'ish. That second turbo also incorporates an internal wastegate.... I really don't recommend this.

So... aside from the turbo itself, you need:

Wastegate
Blowoff valve
Intercooler
FPR (Comptech or some other kind)
Fuel Pump (in-tank)
Some kind of ESM (Comptech) or a mechanical boost-limiting device
Fuel-lines
Vacuum lines
Oil-hoses (fitting for the OSU) and oil-return lines (easily $150 for good Earl's fittings)
Boost controller
Bost guage

And then... fabrication of manifold piping, exhaust piping, intercooler piping and intake piping.

PM me if you have any other questions... and good luck!

allmotor_2000

Oh... that intercooler might fit physically but it seems to have one inlet and two outlets...?!?

allmotor_2000

Oh another thing... I don't have any skills myself... I didn't do the actual welding of my manifold/piping

SFLA_Type-S

Thanks for the help Allmotor. You are very thorough & informative. Do you recommend adding a transmission cooler or torque coverter?

SFLA_Type-S

Where did you get the welding done?

typeR

i hope some day you descide to make yourself another one...i really think you had the right i dea with your first one ...even as much as i love the all motor concept...can you imagine that thing at 10 p.s.i.? scary

darrinb

hmm, how about a twin turbo all motor??

can it be done??

DISRUPTV

i don't think theres enough space in the engine bay 2 create an efficient TwinTurbo setup

power3dfx

allmotor, how much would or better yet how much did your entire setup cost you? to me it seems that we can turbo the car for alot cheaper than getting the comptech sc, and we also can get more power.

Titand19

Well guys, seeing as I have the turbo. Everything is running great so far. I can hardly tell that the turbo is there unless I give it a decent amount of gas.

SFLA: Good luck with the tranny bro. I wouldn't suggest doing the kit with an auto, but if you do, mad props.

Comptech SC: That shit is wack. There is no power, the dynos seen, it would be possible to get those number NA with the proper mods. Sadly Comptech produces a good product, but the SC is a waste of $$$.

Juker008

U know I thought of the same thing. What about a TT setup, but I then realized that too much power from a dead stop is gonna give u nothing but wheel spin. Although, on good street tyres, on street psi (45 for low-pro) could benifit from an additional 50whp from stock form.

Now with a boost controller that would allow something like 400whp on the strip would do great. Turn it down on the street to get traction and crank it up at the track.

Oh yea L,

Don't forget to upgrade ur valves to SS. I think someone we know already proved taht to us .







Juker008

CCType-S

Why not allmotor start selling the turbo kit for people in here.

allmotor_2000

Titand19 is the marketing man... you should ask him! I can provide technical support for a share of the royalties

Twin-turbo could work... but really is pointless - it doesn't make any more power. The real purpose of 'twin-turbo' is to utilize a smaller turbo sequentially with a larger turbo to give a more linear response... aka no 'turbo lag'. All 'high-power' applications utilize a single-turbo. Except of course the Bugatti V16... with four turbos, but that's also like 11000cc or something like that!

Anyways... the turbo-kit could ideally be around the same cost of the Comptech S/C... cheaper if you are deep with with component manufaturers. The first one is always expensive...

The kit is very transparent... you won't really notice it until you floor the car... and then its a big gush of power for only ~5psi. That car can make upwards of 400whp (nearly 500 crank horsepower) at around 10psi on the stock motor with appropriate mods. I wouldn't recommend this configuration for daily-driving... but you can push it all day at 5psi and it won't damage anything.

If I can't hit 12's NA... without rebuilding the motor... I will probably make another kit - hopefully a better one

Right now, Titand19's the man to be... he's enjoying it, I am sure!

Juker008

What about a boost controller? Low setting for daily, crank it up for the trank and M3s .








Juker008

allmotor_2000

4psi is enough to beat an M3... so no need to crank it up for that. However... 10psi should get you to consistent mid-to-low 12's with proper traction - you'd see around 115-118mph in the 1/4.

CLS2001_97124

10psi!!! with our compression?? bring out the race gas!!

allmotor_2000

You either need 108+ octane gas or timing-retard..

DISRUPTV

all-motor, check this:

if i get the cls6, and do a turbo like u have, u think i can run 6psi on stock internals for daily driven activities? However, say the occasion arises where i want to bump psi to 10psi, will that be ok on stock internals? Also, how would i go abt dynotuning the car ifI was 2 drive at 6psi all the time, but ocassionally at 10psi?


thanks man

Meth

SFLA_Type-S

Allmotor: What are your thoughts on the auto tranny situation? Do you think the auto can handle 5 psi??? I have had good results with a 75 shot. How would a turbo at (5psi) be compared to the 75 shot??

mattg

if it does go out, there's a good chance the dealer will tell you to get f'd.

how many miles do you have?

it's obvious to me if the tranny will fail on a stock cl-s, it's just as or more likely to fail under boost.

BoostedM3

At least add a big fatty tranny cooler on there.

Allmotor - Do you think a Level 10 TC upgrade would help?

allmotor_2000

The tranny itself won't fail at 6psi of boost It's during a WOT shift where there is such a huge amount of torque which is going to affect the transmission. That kit made > 310 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. A stock CL-S (auto) makes around 195 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. That's a > 50% increase in torque. The stock tranny breaks with a stock motor... what do you think will happen with 50% more torque?!?

I don't recommend the turbo on an auto... even with a tranny cooler... sorry!!

Dyno: What you do is dyno the car at 5psi on regular gas... get things tuned. Then dump in race-gas, boost 10psi and tune an AIC (injector controller for more fuel... your choice on which one). The motor won't blow for 10psi.... Honda Civic's and Integras on 1.8L boost 10psi all the time.

So... drive the car as a daily-driver on 5psi and when you want to boost to 10psi... make sure you have race-gas and turn on the AIC

I guarantee low 12s E.T's with good traction and 10psi on that motor.

Doom878

All the 98-02 Accords that went with a custom turbo kit blew their trannies if they had it on for more than a few months. Imagine a CL-S which IMO has had more tranny problems since it has more torque. But if you do it SFLA, you gotta let me be in the car while driving.

Any of you guys decide to do a 6spd swap yet or what?

BoostedM3

I don't think I swap would be very feasable...better off just trading in and getting the 6, but then with that amount money put in I would rather just get another car. 350Z w/ Greddy turbo kit (when it comes out) or used SLK32-Renntech doesn't sound too bad.

Juker008

Been planing on it since Jan. I'm tring to see if I can get everything done for $5K to the most everyone keeps telling me that it is gonna be in the range of $8K, personally I think that price is FKin rediculious.

I really don't plan on getting it done untill I am almost done with my 100K warranty. Why mess with such a stupid thing .









Juker008

Ray Khan

hell allmotor....that T3/T4 was pretty conservative, I'd like to see something bigger like a full T4 or more. I know you are staying away from FI for now, but it would be interesting to see what can be done with a turbo that would be considered a big turbo for the 3.2. T66 maybe :>)

Juker008

U know that sounds very logical, but $5K to do a tranny swap compared to $10K+ for a trade in...now think about it. Personally I would rather have a '01 6MT with a custom turbo for $10K rather than a new 03" 6MT.

U are also right, it would be better to trade it in and get a NEW BRAND car, FK Acura.









Juker008

Ray Khan

always a good idea...especially if you hear some pinging on a hot day, you can always turn down the boost.

scalbert

Ah hell, just go all out and use a T64E, this has been successfully campaigned on another V6 motor. You might not have any boost until 5k revs but when you do, hold on... :P

scalbert

Hrmm, not surprising with this coming from the only turbo guy. Although I do prefer turbo overall; some of the above statements were off base.

There has been one real SC dyno to date and it produced just shy of 300 WHP. You could certainly get that from NA, but it will take some serious work and will not have the same in torque. Don't count my dyno as your turbo could run the same fate I had with a faulty (you run the same unit) FPR.

At the lower boost levels, 5 PSI and less, there is not too much difference between what the turbo can make and what the SC can generate. The nice part of the turbo is that it has much greater potential. The greater efficiency allows for more boost along with the intercooler. Once above 0.5 Bar the turbo's advantage really shines. But in the lower boost levels the power generated is similar with a slight advantage to the turbo mainly due to the intercooler.

scalbert

While on the topic of a turbo and also related to something I have been thinking about for my SC, an easier installation (after the creation of the product) might be to run a Liquid/Air IC.

What I am considering is replacing the upper intake manifold with a decent sized Liquid/Air IC. This would do two things, provide excellent cooling with an ice chest capability at the track and decrease the distance needed for flow (better response).

Just a random thought I had regarding this matter.

Doom878

It's true that it makes more economical sense to trade up to a Z or whatever but it would be a nice, expensive project. We got a couple guys putting in CL-S trannies, CL-S tranny/engine, and even an auto cl-s tranny/engine and a mdx block/cl-s head/cl-s 6speed/ twin turbo setup over at www.v6performance.net. I know some of you guys want to do something new.

Scalbert: Sounds like a plan but with the size of your engine as it is you might need a custom hood. Good luck.

BoostedM3

Juker - Yes, if you can get it done for $5k I would do it too, but when I asked around (not many dealerships would even consider doing it) they estimate $8-10k - mostly labor costs.

I'm ditching my CL after this year.

Ray Khan

don't confuse boost for air mass...they are NOT the same thing. If you run a T66 at 5 psi and the CT SC at 5 psi, there will still be a world of differnece. The turbo will push way more air at that boost and that car will be faster. Of course the lag will be a big factor in comparing the driveability, but I just wanted to point out that it's not all about boost. I think a lot of people don't understand that.

bryanz3.0cl

youre getting quoted so much because your going to a dealer, most charge an arm and a leg for simple installs, ie. $345 for springs...talk to some reputable performance shops and they should be much cheaper.

scalbert

I would never confuse the two. I've owned and modified three turbo vehicles and two SC equipped so I do love PV = nRT: the Ideal Gas Law.

At any given boost pressure and nearly the same efficiency the SCFM is practically the same. The variations between mass flow and boost come with differences in efficiency which at the lower boost levels is minimal. With the same rise in pressure and the same rise in temperature the total mass is the same.

Actually, per your example there may be a minimal difference but would also depend on many factors. On the 3.2L motor there would be marginal difference. But on a 5.7L LS-1 there would be a huge difference as the MP-62 blower would need to be spun way outside of its efficiency range in order to generate 5 PSI boost. Whereas the T66 would just be getting started.

scalbert

Actually, removing the upper manifold would provide about 6 comfortable inches of clearance. This is plenty for a custom manifold/IC.