This was over at AV6. Thought you guys might be interested.


http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...&threadid=6659

http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...&threadid=7428

 

Oh watch out Comptech!!!

 

You know what... I'll get excited when they release CL headers. Or will those Accord V6 headers fit our cars...?

 

They should fit our car.

 

Good maybe this will make Comptech prices of aftermarket stuff REASONABLE

 

CompTech has already stated that regardless of how many other companies sell headers for cheaper their price will remain the same because that is what it costs them to make the headers. They still maintain that they do not falsely inflate their headers price simply because they are the only header available.

 

They can say whatever they want, we know the truth. Now, would you tell your cutomers that they were inflating prices on purpose?

spiro

 

maybe we should contact obx, and see what other mods they will offer to us.

spiro

 

I deal with steel fabrication shops all the time where I work and there is NO WAY it costs that much to manufacture those headers.

I can see them keeping the cost high for the first year to recover development costs, but they can’t cost THAT much when they’re making them for CL, TL & Accord all from ONE design.

Supply and demand is keeping the cost HIGH.

I have the money to buy them and have considered it, but that price gouging keeps me from doing it.
I will probably buy a competitors product when finally available, just to SPITE them for this.

Shawn S

 

We need to see some dynos of these knock off Headers... Does anyone have a clue what kind of perfomance/HP gains they will produce??????

 

My research indicated that CT headers should not cost more than 600 to make.

I am wating for the Prototype Racing headers

 

Target Date?? Price??? HP Gains??

 

They can use whatever excuses they want, they're not getting $1250 out of me and that's final.

 

I think that the Court well aware of your position concerning Comptech headers Mr. Jrock, you may leave the stand

 

Sometime in the summer, price around $1k, gains to be dynoed and published in car magazine...

Info here:

http://www.prototyperacing.com/tlcl.htm

 

It is obvious that most here are not in business planning and product pricing. Are CT headers expensive, yes but are they overly inflated, I don't think so.

Who here has researched potential products viability; R&D'd it, brought it to market, advertised it, distributed it and then had to support it?? The manufacturing costs are only about 1/3 of the total cost. Another 3rd is for R&D for this and other designs and products that didn't quite make it. The last 3rd is for all of the other overhead (which in CT situation, is probably pretty high), to pay the salaries of all the front office folks, the entire infrastructure.

So the material manufacturing costs probably are only $250 or so for them. But this is only part of it whereas the total business costs are probably in the $700 range leaving $300 - $400 for profit. In truth, I would hope that CT has better than a 30% margin, you have to discount to distributors which would further reduce this margin.

Sure, a smaller company could make them for less, they have less overhead. The problem with the smaller companies making products is that they don't always add in support issues with their products. What happens years down the road when there might be a problem and the smaller company no longer exists (just an example, not specifically directed to the subject companies).

People should always want the suppliers to make a reasonable but healthy profit so they can be around for years further developing new products or improving existing ones.

 

Prototype racing is directly pricing its headers at $1000, ( this is from 2 man co.) We just hope this new headers would outperform Comptech's.

 

Amen to that. With an emphasis on the reasonable part. However, no denying that competition entering the CL header market will force Comptech to offer more competitive prices. Basic economics - monopoly vs free market vs oligopoly vs whatever else.

 

Only way i could possible see that the Headers cost 1200-1300 bucks is if they were made of Titanium(it's an expensive strong,lightweight metal). If some of you guys pick up a import magazine (like Import racer or 5.0(Mustangs)) y'all know you can get Si headers or 5.0 headers 300-400 bucks(AT THE MOST) I was talking to my friend with a new Celica and he can get TRD headers for his ride he said for about 300 bucks I told him for a CL or TL is 1200-1300 bucks. At first he thought i was joking. I said I'm dead serious. He said Holy hell I wouldn't buy em. I said that's cause Comptech is ripping us off . Now Comptech saying it cost this much to make them I want to at this point raise the BS flag. as a Farm boy/in FFA(Future Farmers of America) we occassionally(and did when i was in school) fabricate things(everything from a small trailer to a sprayer).the reason I say this is we'd have to buy our supplies(far as metal, welding rods, all that stuff) I know guys they have to do "Research and Development but lets face it lets say it takes 500 bucks to make the header pipe(which if anyone that's been to a metal shop will tell you 500 bucks will buy you a LOT of tubeing) still that's 700-800 bucks on EACH PIPE they spend on Research and Development. I don't might 100 or maybe 200 but 700 and 800 bucks is way over doing it :P

 

This may be a bold statement, but until you research, R&D, produce, market and distribute a product I suggest that people refrain from commenting.

Sure, someone can fab something together for a fraction of the cost, but it certainly isn't a production piece nor does it deal with paying all of the overhead (like those darn over-paid IT guys.)

Yea, there are 5.0 headers for $500 - $600. But there is 50x more market potential (if not greater).

 

They look awesome. I hope they dyno well. I'd consider those, even at $1000 if the dyno is right.

 

Are those headers out in the market yet? Or is this like "we'll eventually release them, probably around the turn of the century"?

 

I'm with him

 

YEAH...if that is a 2 man company....then they are outsourcing production. Cuz Comptech has 3 fullt time TIG welders working on headers. They have the pieces pre-fabricated by a machine shop in, key word, stainless steel....which, btw, is superior to those cheapie ceramic coat headers that crack. Hmmmm....everyone that has been to Comptech's facilities has seen the type of quality that they offer, its only you guys that have never been there that complain.

Furthermore, 1200-1300 is not what Comptech really sells it for, it is only if you order directly from them. They sell to dealers for under $1K.....and offer to not undercut them and advertise prices at $1200-1300 in order not to take business away from them. Think about it....if you were a dealer who sold maybe 1-2 CL/TL headers a month, you need to make a profit on it in order to make it worthwhile to sell them...so, Comptech recommends that they be sold for something less than their website price. Now, it is your choice to buy from Comptech direct. Otherwise, you should be able to buy from a distributor for quite a bit less.

Now, all those that want the other headers....great...just warning you that OBX quality is low on the totem pole. Those Prototype race headers would seem to give you more high end than Comptech...3-2-1 v. 6-1. It is a race header...and if you think that you wont lose low end torque with that design...I suggest you go do some research on the differences.

 

Prototype Racing is actually Joe and 1 contracted TIG welder.

Joe has his own tools to make the pipes and the bendings...the contracted welder is doing the rest. It would be a polished SS.

Only 50 are being made for the first run.

I will comit on ordering one once I see the dyno sheet.

I would be happy spending 1G on superior product.

Just for the record, last time I saw Comptech dealer prices. The headers was listed at $850. So, at some places it's being sold for $975 for a net profit of $125.

I would believe that Comptech making a net profit of at least $200 too.

 

If it does put out more power, I commend it. That headers list is really old, before the price increase.

 

If we are enthuisiasts, than Scalbert is correct.

Though on a business level, when you over-price a product, it opens doors for compteition. Its not healthy.

I do not believe Comptech is selling these at cost price, even with the R&D and etc.

If they were, they are stupid for making and selling them (on a business level mind).

I say this because, IF THEY COULD have sold these at a decent price, I bet you no other companies would bother making headers, and comptech would be game for a lot longer selling headers, extending out their over-head but atleast staying in business.

The money they will lose due to competition (if in fact they are selling at cost price) will be a greater dilemma for them, and they would have nobody to blame but theirselves.

With so many Accords, and CL's on the street, I I would hope to believe they are not being truthful about selling at Cost Price.

If this is the scenario, once another company makes headers Comptech will sell no headers, and that will put them at loss for even attempting to make and sell headers.

With all the above said, and read...my forecast with Comptech with respect to Scalberts post is:

- If another company makes headers, Comptech loses.
- If you ever sell a product at your cost price, your game for loss.
- If Comptech really isn't making profit, they should not have made the headers in the first place.

(A) All-in-all, Comptech is either a stupid company that doesnt know how to maximize and maintain a market.

OR

(B) They are dishonestly stating that they are selling at cost price, and they have room to sell the headers for less, giving them the chance to significantly lower prices once the competition is in the market.

If it was my guess, I think Comptech is smarter than to sell at cost price, I think its (B).

 

btw, i will keep my 1200 dollars in my pocket too.

Its not worth it for me.

 

You sound so certain of that. Oops you're wrong.

Who makes ceramic coated headers for our car??

Oh, so we should spend $1000 on a plane ticket to convince ourselves to spend another $1250? Riiiiight.

*backs away carefully*

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see. If other companies release their headers for less money with close or similiar and CompTech doesn't drop their prices then at least we can all sleep good knowing they were being honest with us up front.

If CompTech does lower their prices then everyone will be happy (well except for those who already bought theirs) but then we all stay awake at night wondering what else CompTech might have lied to us about.

Maybe the price of electricity or stainless steel will magically drop in the next couple of weeks.

 

Whatever Jrock....you won't buy any headers that are $1K....period...so, what are you complaining about....no header will give you power in the lower rpm range.....without losing significant power in the high end. And since you never use that part of the engine...what's the use? Even an intake is a waste.

 

I'm not sure here, but did I say they were selling them at cost?? I just wanted to clarify this...

They are making a profit, but I feel it is probably a reasonable one. Not many people here consider risk as a cost either...

BTW, this is not directed at you Amir, just a general statement. Based on previous posts it seems that most here are in more of a service industry. This is further exaggerated when even if working for a manufacturer, people here work in an area unrelated to manufacturing.

I have too, in the past, complained about pricing until I experienced this at various levels. It is all too easy to judge a price based on the simple material and labor, but what alludes most is the overall cost to run a business. Sure when a company is small and the owner answers the phone, costs can be kept lower and these savings passed to the consumer. But at some point as the company grows you have to hire people which costs money and typically reduces margin or you raise the price.

Not to mention various mandated manufacturing requirements such as assembly documents all the way to ISO 9001 certification (which can cost over $100k). The more products you ship the larger your QC requirements (and internal support) which all increase overhead and really hurts in a limited market.

 

Put some more words in my mouth and create more opinions for me while you're at it.

1: You do not know what I will or will not buy.

2: I do not expect headers to give amazing low rpm power.

3: I said that for price the Comptechs go for and the performance they tend to produce, they are not worth it for me since I don't WOT my car all the time. You might find them worth the price, but I don't. That is all. Create your own imaginary arguments for me all you want, but that is the summary of my opinion of the Comptech headers.

4: I'm not complaining, I was responding to something you said that was wrong. Grow up.

5: You still haven't responded to the three points of your post that I crushed, instead you attack me.

 

And I was responding to what you like to comment on and what you say in almost every thread that is posted containing a reference to Comptech headers.

Grow up? Okay....I'm just a kid who doesn't know crap about what is out there..you put me in my place....

 

Keep avoiding your incorrect, silly post that I countered. If you avoid it, and instead try to focus on this issue you have with me and my opinion of the CT headers, your silly post might be overlooked.

 

yeah....uh huh....you're right...you're too smart for me...

 

Oh come on, do you need a hug?

 

hey hey!!! That shit costs money for touching...

 

Yeah I'm getting in on this one a little late... For those of you who think CT will lose money when the competion makes their heads available..... (MORON!!!) Sorry had to get that out. CT has price their headers high so that they can recieve the cost of R&D,production, and initial advertisement back.(they are not lying about the price, they are trying to recover initial costs).For those of you who have a business background you know that it takes a while to make a profit. Are they making a lot of money right now? YES. They are a monopoly at the moment and they are capitalizing. Will their prices drop when the competion comes out, probably after a year on the market it will be cheaper for them to produce the heads, because they will have recovered most of the R&D costs. Will they still be expensive YES- quality product= quality price. I would expect them to drop $100-150 off their seller price which is about $800 I believe( you can get them for $975 w/about $175 going to the seller. I would expect you to be able to find them for about $800-875 after the competion increases.

 

um werent we talking about headers?....what is this post about again??...excuse me but im lost...which way to the headers post?