I know all the GOOD stuff.
They make the car handle great, less body roll and they make the car look better.
I want to know about the BAD stuff.

I’ve read posts about everything from bumpy ride, hitting curbs, speed bumps, rubbing tires with 4-people in the car, uneven tire wear and broken shocks.
I use my car everyday and all winter.
It’s not a show car in any way.

There are times when my trunk & back seat are FULL to the top with luggage & beach gear when I head out for summer vacation with the wife.
I may even need to plow through 8 inches of new fallen snow in the winter.
The car needs to perform in all these circumstances.

My suspension is all stock and sometimes when I pull out of a shopping mall or stop at the bank there are changes in the road surface that I know are barely clearing the front bumper.

If/when the CL body kit comes out I want to get it.

Should I just forget about springs and go with SWAYS only ???

Shawn S

PS.....If you are embarrassed to admit something, PM me and I promise NOT to share.

 

Yes, you are in the same boast that I am in.

Stick with sways only.

 

Here is the harsh reality of springs.

1) Ambient noise...more squeaks and some rattling can occur.

2) Ride becomes slightly harsher and some things you would drive over easily before are now road obstacles.

3) Potholes are now dangerous...

That's about it...nothing really bad about springs other than a harsher ride and noise...BTW, if you are plowing snow...and still want springs...the only way to go is coilovers.

 

Every car comes with springs.

Your not really adding anything.

Shawn stick with Comptech, and you will have NO problems AT ALL.

 

Okay...

I have had both the Comptech springs... as well as Ground Control Coil-Overs which are the ultimate in uncomfortable car destroying suspension upgrade.


For you Shawn, I would HIGHLY recomend the Comptech's... they, IMO, do not HURT ride quality at all... they barely affect camber, and they are not overly stressful on your shocks.

Ive had Comptechs on the Red CL for 25,000 miles with NO PROBLEMS at all. and never once have I been in that car and thought "i should return the springs to stock" or "this ride is too harsh". (like I do with the GC's as they age)


After 25k I have absolutely no complaints with the Comptechs.

The benefits?

• Improved Steering Feel
• Lowered Center Of Gravity
• MUCH improved handling (They improve it far more then MY coil-overs)

Your always complaining about the performance of your car around the twisties in PA... the Comptechs will definately improve your confidence while maintaining a stock-like ride and improving the look of your car.

Oh... and with the Comptech's I still clear almost all of New Yorks RIDICULOUSLY TALL CURBS... and I never plow snow.



Go for the Comptechs, you will not regret it.

 

I agree--if you stick with Comptech you will have no problems except for a slightly bouncy ride which I didn't like so I changed out the shocks. The one time I had the entire car packed down for a week long vacation it did bounce a lot on the highway.

I just had my car aligned with 235's on it and it aligned perfectly so there should not be any premature wear issues.

 

BTW, I'm not arguing Moo's comment about coilovers.

FULL (and expensive) coil-overs will probably be great.


I'm just saying, Ground Controls suck over time.

BUT... they meet my needs... low cost... adjustability... and I have no complaints with them in the summer when roads are relatively smooth and the springs arent caked in ice.

 

sounds like you're riding the fence..you know all the pros and cons (if the drawbracks on comptechs slightly firmer springs are to be considered as such). Time to shit or get off the pot

But really I really don't think you'll regret the install and with them you can keep you stock struts. I've had mine on for 18K miles and I agree with the previous post, never regretted putting them on, only changing them out for a lower drop. I would say GO FOR IT!.

 

I would suggest getting shocks along with springs because with adjustable Konis, you would eliminates your chances of buttoming out and the install will cost you less since you already have to take the whole thing apart to install springs.

 

Your not going to bottom out with Comptechs.

I never have.


The stock shocks are plenty strong with them... and the progressive spring rate of the Comptechs handles us well.

 

I don't think the stock shocks are up to the task.

Plus, how can you say you won't bottom out? By bottoming out I assume you mean fully compressing the springs?

Hell, even with the Konis at 3/4 stiff I can still fully compress the springs when just the right dip is encountered.

 

so do coilovers come with springs or are they only shocks???

 

CURBS
Parking in spots with curbs or dividers sucks. Either you take
the chance of grinding your front bumper on the curb to get
close or your car sticks out like a land yacht into the parking lot.

 

True coilovers are a complete spring and shock/strut setup...with height adjustability. Sleeve coilovers (ie. GCs and others) are just a sleeve which fits over a shock/strut and are hieght adjustable.

 

The only thing I would be concerned with is tire wear. With Comptechs you'd eventually have to change to aftermarket shocks, but you can ride on stock for a pretty good amount of time. I f*cked up my last car's tires soo bad after I dropped it. I dunno, maybe I was driving to crazy.

*edit* sorry I'm kinda typing in nonsequitors... I'm tired.

 

I'm afraid to get springs. I've bottomed out a few times already with the stock springs.

 

I don't have a CL (yet) but I've been around the proverbial block trying to find the correct spring/shock matchup before I finally went with coilovers on my current car. The only negative about lowering my car was the rain dip/pothole issue where I sometimes scrape the front chin of my car. I now drive with a built-in fear factor of what's ahead on the road and I watch out for everything. The upside is being able to take corners at 40mph, especially with my Suspension Techniques 22mm sway bars F&R.

My bad experience going the individual spring/shock route was trying to find the right spring stiffness vs. the drop. First of all, speak to the spring mfg. and ask them what the recommended shock is for their spring. Most of them recommend a shock upgrade to Koni, Bilstein, KYB etc. When I found solo springs that were stiff enough, they were way too short. I popped two upper ball joints when the car was lowered to the extreme. Coilovers give a matched spring and shock combo with total adjustability of ride height. I found the coilover spring rates were way stiffer than normal springs because the actual spring in coilovers are much shorter. When it came to cost, I found that buying springs and shocks were only a few hundred less than coilovers and by the time I went round and round trying to find the right springs and shocks, I spent three times what good coilovers cost.

 

Looks like I’m getting mixed signals.

Thinking once again about NOT getting springs.

Shawn S

 

Shawn,

My 2 cents: Get the springs. The Comptech springs sound like the way to go if you plan on using OEM shocks. To me, the advantages of doing this outweigh the negatives. You will love your car all over again. Whichever springs you decide on, GET an alignment. Any drop from stock will change camber and therefore wear the inside of all tires.

The real negatives of suspension mods come about when you go to the extreme. Example: If you lower the car beyond being able to realign the wheels using normal procedures, you'll need a camber kit up front and washers in the rear (that's how Honda/Acura cars work). The camber kit spaces the upper A-arm in front outward from 1/2" to 1 1/2". When the alignment is done, your front wheels are now pushed outward by about 1/2" or more. This now causes other issues: scraping the fender liner, fender lip, etc. Also, once the car gets that low, you'll need to slow down over large dips and speed bumps.

Seems like every mod we do creates a compromise. You just need to decide how much of a compromise you can deal with.

By the way, how close is your 6-Spd CL-S to delivery?

 

just get the f-in springs.

they barely cost shit... and i KNOW your not going to regret them.


<center>stop bein a bish! </center>

 

I have had the Comptechs for 25,000 miles and they are great. I have had 5 people in the car and 1 in the truck and no rubbing or anything like that.

I have driven in 8" of snow with no problems. I say gettings new springs and sways are a must.

 

Still probably about 4-5 weeks out yet.

Soopa.....I’ll probably go with Springs & Sways installed by Jens at PAA of course.
For about 900 installed I think this is a better investment then over 1,300 for headers.

Shawn S

 

I don’t think I want to ASK about that one.

Soopa......Did you read your PM from me yet ???

Shawn S

 

I've been following this with great interest, and have the same reservations. I too, am still confused here.

 

Ha, 5 in the car and 1 in the trunk. Never seen that before. But our trunks are huge so I'm sure there's more than enough space for a person back there.

 

Nothing really...........If you go too low you have to worry about rubbing. The ride is a little more harsh......but SPORTY feeling.

 

Shawn & RockDog -

Let me restate my earlier input. Comptech springs / sways are a great upgrade. I'm just sick of the "rake" look. That's why I've decided to do H&R OE fronts (while retaining the Compy rears.) I'm doing them Sat., so I'll let you know how it turns outs (pics included.)

The ride is really not any worse than stock (slightly harsher, but very tolerable.) Great response, and drivability. I'm in Ohio, with the cold weather and all, and still don't mind them much. If you're ever in the Cols. OH area, email me for a test drive.

The winter rattles are getting on my nerves, but I'm so anal about these types of things it's not funny. Todays 50 deg temps reminded me that all's good. The "rattles" aren't that bad either. Very few, but annoying to me none the less. Just picky......

If I had it to do all over again, I'd go the same route.

HTH - Jim

 

Whatdya need to know? Here's how I list my questions regarding suspension:
1. How much drop do I want? Just a moderate amount or to the extreme where there may be some additional handling benefits but with other negative trade-offs.
2. How much money do I want to sink into this? Since "my" car already has sway bars, would springs only be sufficient or should I get shocks too? While I'm at it, do I have money for new sways? Aftermarket sways are always better in my book.
3. How stiff of a ride will I be happy with? Let's face it...You can't go lower without sacrificing something in ride comfort. It just depends on what you're looking for. Personally, I don't mind the stiff ride of my coilovers. Everything about how my car handles has improved except potholes and freeway overpass whoop-de-doos.
4. If you have the money, do the springs, shocks, sways, and new sticky tires. You'll be grinning through every turn.

 

Interesting note...


I had a chance to check out a CLS with sway, springs, and stock tires. The springs do wonders...


However, when you put on some really sticky tires, the advantage is not that pronounced. In fact, most of the people I've privately communicated with, regret the ride of the springs on "lousy roads", and would have just left the ride height alone if they had gotten tires and sways.

Finally, if you add really light wheels (lower unsprung weight), they more than compensate for any harshness added by the sways and lower profile tires!

There may be future possibilities with the Zeals, Bilsteins, etc, but the most compelling feature of the springs is the "vanity" issue that makes the car look "cool"/"sweet" dropped an inch or two.

There are parts of the country and certain roads that are already pretty lousy and can have a profound impact on how someone will enjoy the springs.

It would be nice if someone made coilovers with all of the following:

1. Progressive springs (in various progressive winds [rates/change is progressive characteristics])
2. With adjustable height
3. Adjustable compression/rebound control
4. Adjustable bump stop (REALLY!!!!)
5. With a gas damper similar to the Bilstein's in damping characteristics.

 

I might as well jump in here. Shawn, do the Comptechs. I've had them for a few months now and they're great. Along with the Konis, it is like a new car. At times i take a turn and i'm still amazed, like i just got them yesterday. I've only bottomed once, flew over a dip at 65. Haven't done it since. They look good, i like the rake, it makes it look more aggressive and i've had zero problems with driveways or curbs.

 

You must not have the speed bumps that "mark" every other hillside road in the West Los Angeles area -- enjoy it while it lasts...


If I hit one of the monster speed bumps around my area at over 35 MPH, I would crack my skull...

 

There are coilovers that do all of that except for item #1. The springs in coilovers are not long enough (they're about 1/2 length of regular springs) to allow for the compression that the "progressive" or softer spring area would give. Therefore, they're linear rate springs. Oh, I'm not sure about the adjustable bump stop. Theoretically, one should not be bottoming out and hitting the bump stops, but that's only theory.

 

For the CLS ?????


Here is where I'm going (and others seem to be looking for something similar)... let me explain...

There is a member that couldn't run a setup similar to my own (235/45 Toyos + SSRs + Comptech + Konis) due to a rubbing issue. Since this issue has been well sorted out and the Konis are the ONLY difference (from working setups), it is a pretty good bet that their inclusion alters the bump stop height of the car.

So, bump stop adjustment is a critical requirement -- there is a point where even the stock system must include an energy absorption system to prevent 1) rubbing and 2) bottoming out in a controlled fashion (Those bump stops are made out of rubber, etc for a reason.)

The bump stop must "control" the max G loading that the suspension will see...

I am interested in the fully adjustable Zeals (when someone tries them out). I have NOT seen a coilover for the CLS with the features I mentioned.


My goal is to find something with a mild 1-2" drop, progressive wound spring (or helper spring), and control of suspension travel at minimum excursion (bump stop must be designed with good elastomeric material that will absorb shock properly...

I also loved Bilstein's for their great small bump ride quality *and* great large excursion damping (I have used both the Konis and Bilsteins, and the Bilsteins were more "ride friendly")

 

BTW, not to hijack this thread, but since I am the unfortunate member Eric mentions above :P , I should report that I just replaced my 235-45/17 Toyos with 225-45/17 Toyos. And after two days of hard cornering on full lock turns (the only time the rubbing occurred with the 235s) the rubbing is no more.

 

I think to convince me fully, it’s going to take a HELL RIDE from one of the Jersey boys with springs.

Who’s up for the challenge ???

Shawn S

 

since you are already set on replacing the rubber (already selling the 03 rims before you have the vehicle), why not just add the sways first. There should be no difference in price between sways then springs vs sway & springs.
Try the 03 with the new tires and sways. If you are happy, done.
If not, get the springs after the car settles a bit.

I was tossed also, I just went with sways first. After my first twisties run at 65+, I was very happy and my ride characteristics did not change at all.


Also, after reading the autoweek writup about the 03,
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=00642865
it looks like there may be stiffer springs and a larger rear sway bar in the 03 over the 01-02 models???
"The chassis has also been reworked on the ’03 Type-S, while the two-year-old exterior has been freshened on all CLs. Stiffer springs and shocks front and rear and a larger-diameter rear antiroll bar give the CL Type-S crisper handling. "
You may want to check out the sway bar specs on the 03 and spring rates before doing anything!!!

 

Mike, that is one hell of a 10 mm difference. It fixes the problem, but still leaves me wondering about the "reports" that the combo without Konis works, but with them...

The difference in bump stop height could be very small to translate into the "clearance" that was provided by the few MMs that the 225 gave you vs. the 235s.

Well, at least it is finally working. Perhaps, you can shoot me a PM about any other details...

 

Now you're getting it. Get a taste for the fun in the turns, then put on your "grumpy...been sitting in traffic and need to cut through some really crummy side streets" hat to check out the SPRINGS!

Of all of the people who have been rather candid with me, most will agree that the look and general ride are fine. But, when asked about the "ride comfort" (and I'm talking about serious long "comfort" rides), check out the "jostle factor" when running over badly broken pavement, small potholes, and various side speed bumps (if you're unlucky enough to have a bunch in your area). Make sure both cars (stock vs. lowered) have similar tires (or all bets are off)...

Drive same road course in your car and sleep on it. There is nothing like testing THE EXACT setup you want to get (no kidding)


If you have nothing buy smooth pavement – thank your local and state officials…

 

I'd be interested if and when the 03 specs are posted up with any info on sway bar diameter and/or thickness changes, etc...

TIA

 

If you glue springs to the bottom of your shoes, you copuld hurt yourself.