I dont know if this had been posted before, but i found some specs for the new 2003 CL-S 6spd with some interesting gear ratio..
http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/acura/CL/
Go to 2003 CL-S model then go to specs icon and check it out
Check out the auto 5spd vs man 6spd gear ratio

 

Most of the info is in the 03 section but I just wanted to call BS on this:

Sophisticated corrosion resistance techniques have been employed to lengthen the life of the CL's body. Double-sided galvanized steel panels as well as anti-acid-etch clear coat on dark colors protects paint from acid rain and other corrosive elements. An anti-chipping primer is applied to leading edges of hood and fenders, and PVC and wax sealer are applied to the underbody to ensure a long-lasting body structure

 

a front shot comparison

 

Yet another Bull shit

PRECISE FIT AND FINISH
The CL coupe incorporates the latest techniques to achieve an uncompromised level of fit and finish. Stiffened door structures, laser-welded inner door panels, special plastic-encapsulated door checkers and latches, and added sound damping materials combine to tune the closing sound of the CL's doors. Special power window motors increase window speed while also reducing noise.

Key features:

Body gaps, specifically the front grille gap, door/fender cut line gap, outer door handle gap, and front and rear bumper gaps, are minimized to reduce wind noise and complement a more streamlined cosmetic appearance.
A very thin center B-pillar provides a clean, seamless side glass appearance.
The windshield wiper stopping position is beneath the hood to enhance visibility.
Under-hood windshield washer nozzles are used.


can someone check with the 02's and see if the front side body panel is lining up w/ the door? thanks I know the 01's had this problem.

 

Really, you should check further before calling out the BS flag. Having worked in the East Liberty and Marysville plants as a process engineer for a few years, I can tell you that we were ALWAYS making improvements to the manufacturing process - even in mid-model production.

How do you know that something has not been changed in the manufacturing? Have you been through the weld shops lately, where most of these changes occur? I worked in the weld shops of both plants for over two years, and I've seen first hand some of these exact technologies you are doubting coming from EGA/EGJ and R&D when they were in their initial development phase. Continuous improvement is a religion at Honda, and if you're doubting that these changes have been implemented because you've got a gripe w/ your car, then you've got it ass-backward; the changes are occuring because honda KNOWS they have a problem.

Shut up, wait and see. You might be surprised.

 

Honda was the first manufacturer in the US to employ galvanized steel in the exterior panels of the car (if you care, its trade name is galvanome), WAAAAAYYYY back in MY 1989. Ya think they may have invented another trick or two?

PPG and DuPont have been working for years on a way to make clear coat more acid resistant. Ya think they may have finally figured it out? Yeah, they probably have.

All cars get an extra helping of primer on the leading edges of the car to protect chips. It's just really hard to do it with paint, and not get sags. In fact, Honda's are all designed so that the exposed edges get narrower as you go further back on the car. The trailing edge of the front wheel well is 1-2 mm inset, relative to the front of the wheel well. Know why? Protect from stone chips. In fact, the widest part of the car is the front bumper cover, for this very reason.

All cars get a corrosion protection coating on the underside of the car - they have for a long time. Try scraping through the stuff to check the integrity of your gas tank welds. I've done it to a few hundred - it's damn thick.

 

I was talking about the body gaps because I know alot of 01's that have body panels taht don't align correctly wasn't talking about the other part.

 

for this one I was talking about our cars chipping.
Our car is notoreous for its think paint and madd paint chips.

 

Hate to admit the accords have better finish on the outside, also HAVE YOU SEEN A CL-S? IN PERSON???

I know the honda accords don't have this problem.
BODYGAPS!

 

And by the way it looks like the Manual tranny car is getting a 3 channel ABS system when our Auto car gets a 4 channel ABS system. Interesting.

Finally, I was almost sure that although the 6SP car is not getting VSA, it is getting TCS but I was wrong. It is clearly stated in the specs table. That car must be a bitch during the winter in Chicago. Short gears, crappy tires, no VSA and no Traction Control. Only an LSD to save your a$$. Hmmm....

 

The 4th channel is the one that “talks” to the VSA system.
If there’s no VSA system, there’s no need for that communication channel.

I admit that I WILL miss the traction control, but I’ve driven many stick shift cars in the white shit and they offer MUCH better control then an auto tranny if you know what your doing.
It won’t offer the ability to “stomp on it” from a stop in the snow, but with front wheel drive and four snow tires I’m not too worried.

Shawn S

 

Someone got bitchslapped! Good going fellas. Not all CL's have gaps and problems. Paint chips yes, but my 98 Maxima was no angel either. It comes with the territory when the use sands and lil pebbles to clear the snow.

 

And by the way, the Maxima didn't have VSA or TCS or any other aid to driving. It was a 5spd. Not many do have it.

 

And with this post I hit 1800 and I'm going to bed. Later gator.

 

Notice the two verticle parts on the insides of the foglight holes are now body color.
If you were to take the foglight housings out, Joe, your car would look like one giant open mouth down there because of our black plastic (un painted) verticle bars. :-\

Also.... LOOK AT THE RED CAR LEAN LIKE A MOFO!!! I dunno how anyone can stand the shock suspension in the CLS. Putting on the Comptech springs and sways makes the car feel how it should come stock - a little lower and a little tighter in the turns.

Now if only Konis were more affordable....

 

Ummm, no.

The number of channels refers to the sensing and actuation of ABS and ABS-related functionalities such as VSA. What it means is that instead of two individual actuators to pulsate each rear brake independently, the rear brakes are controlled by a shared actuator. (The front brakes are always independent.) The reason why non VSA-equipped CL's are equipped with 3-channel ABS is because it doesn't need independent rear channels to brake differentially and produce/counter yaw.

The lack of even traction control is indeed surprising.

 

Is that directed at me? If so, yes, I have seen a CL-s, in peson - a few hundred of them. Yes, they (and my accord, and my old TL, and my mom's Audi, my dad's Nissan, my Uncles Mercedes) do need the trunk re-alligned on occasion. Looosen the trunk striker, and move it so that when the trunk closes, the gap is correct. If the gap is not a simple off-set, but instead a mis-match (in the vertical direction), here's the factory fix - open it, grab the edges, and torque it into place (saw that at a MERCEDES plant too!). Viola!

 

Old news. That's a downside to water-based paint. Look at it this way - you're buying a car manufactured (painted) in an environemtally friendly manner! I'm with you here - the paint chips suck. It will get better, because in the next year or two, every car painted in the US will HAVE to use water based paints. At that point, Honda will at least be ahead of the curve.

 

Agree with that 100%.

 

The CL 6 speed looks like a great vehicle to me. Looking forward to it. Wondered if you would mention to any acura officials that you talk to that I'm one potential customer who wishes acura would lose the perforated leather. If i could have the CL-p seats in the CL-s the car would be perfect.

 

If I could help you out, I certianly would. I left Honda a little over two years ago to work for a supplier (actually, we make the seats!). I happen to like the look of the perforated leather, and I find them very comfortable. Can someone fill me in on why so many people don't care for them?

I can tell you that the seats are 100% compatible with those of the regular CL (as in if you find someone that wants to trade....), and I believe they are compatable with the TL as well, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Thanks for you reply. I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Regarding the perforated leather; Its of course a matter of taste. I think it looks cheaper. I don't like the feel of it under my hand (not as lux). Also one reason I want leather is for a solid unbroken surface that is easy to clean. The perforations defeat that. I wonder a bit about its durability (tear points?). Lastly, have you heard about the "hair"?

As you are a supplier, is there anyway to special order a CL-S and get the CL-P seats? Even for an extra charge? Even with inside help such as yourself?

 

I haven't heard of any complaints regarding hair on the perforated seats, but I can see the point about easy to clean. Would you accept perforated leather if it came with air-conditioned seats? I believe perforations are the only way this feature is currently offered (need to be able to vent the cool air ducted into the seat cushion).

I don't know of any way to order the CL-s with standard seats, as far as using factory codes is concerned. We supply the factory (Honda of America) based on their orders from American Honda. The dealer would need an order code to order the seats. However, an enterprising dealer may be willing to order the seats seperately and swap (as a service part), if he/she has a customer for a set of type-s seats (this would seem to be an unlikely situation, but possible), especially if this is what it took to make the sale and you were willing to help defray some of the costs. Check with them, see what they say.

 

I was tossing this around in my head for more than 2-weeks, and I ran into an article about one of the new Porches. (It may have been RUF or ...)

They mentioned how the car's with 2-wheel drive with limited slip in the rear (NOT the AWD cars) DID NOT get the traction control (insert Porsche term here) due to some rather "funny behavior" they were getting in the car with the traction control/stability system, electronic throttle, AND rear limited slip.

-- BACK TO THE ACURA --

If the limited slip is going to pull power away from the slipping wheel (good thing) and VSA is going to clamp the brakes (as it does in the non-limited slip auto slushy version) the VSA represents one control system (under full electronic control), and the diff is implementing a "natural control system". IMO -- The two could get into some confusing situations!

Example...

The right wheel slips, the VSA clamps the brake on the right side to force power over the left wheel (with the better grip); depending on the time constants and pulse per degree of wheel rotation and control system time constant, the brake could still be clamped when the limited slip decided to dump power into what would NOW be perceived (incorrectly) as the right side wheel with MORE traction (and that perceived traction is just a tire on an oily surface with a VSA clamped brake looking like a tire that picked up more traction). So, now the diff is transferring the power into the brake (not the slipping tire) and I could see how the brakes could get very hot if the "whole" system was not re-engineered to "understand" the natural transfer of power via the limited slip differential in the front.

 

I don't think lack of TCS/VSA will even be an issue for me. I'm so impressed with my new tires. I've yet to see the VSA light since I got them. Add LSD to that and woo hoo!

 

Although for all intents and purposes the theory is sound, I figured that I would play Devil's Advocate and show examples where traction control was successful combined with a helical-gear LSD on a drive axle. Suffice it to say if I'm talking about it, I obviously didn't find enough to demonstrate much of a trend. So I agree with your proposition that manufacturers are having a difficult time tuning traction control to work properly with the instantaneous response of the helical-gear LSD. With the margin of imprecision inherent in viscous LSDs to work with, they seem to have no problems in getting traction control to work properly.

(There exist four production cars that have successfully tuned traction control to work properly with a helical-gear LSD on the drive axle. If you're interested to know which ones, PM me. Yes, do suspect the obvious from the facade of secrecy. :P )

 

I was thinking abou this today - yes, the application of brakes would not be the best thing necessairly, but another way to accomplish this is by retarding ignition in conjunction w/ the HLSD. After all, the HLSD will only ensure, at best, that both wheels turn at the same rate. Coupling this with proper engine management can produce the best of both worlds (performance when the VSA/TC is turned off, safety other times). I've personally never much cared for using the brakes to slow the spining wheel - no sound science to prove my statement, it's just me.

On this topic, VSA is still possible with HLSD. However, you are using yaw rate sensors to accomplish most of your input, and the system is less reliant on wheel spin input.

 

Thanks again. I did not think it was possible (standard seats) but no harm trying. As for air conditioned seats, I'm not a gadget person. I would still want solid leather. I may buy the new Accord coupe if it comes with solid leather and the new 6 speed transmission (and a V-6 of course). If all else fails, I'll buy a Z with cloth seats. Acura/Honda will have lost this customer.