Slow cranking on the shiftervan
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Joined: Jan 2016
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From: Rockford, IL
Slow cranking on the shiftervan
Hey guys, I got the shiftervan out of storage back in May. The battery was completely dead. I charged it but have had issues starting it that get continually worse if I run errands and shut it off multiple times. Like if I go to one store it will crank slow when I come out. If I go to another place and shut it off, it will crank even slower. If I go to a third place and shut it off, it will barely crank at all. If I go to a fourth place, it's dead. I just put a brand new battery in it Monday night. I didn't start it at all until Wednesday morning to go to work. It cranked slow right off the bat with the new battery. At lunch it nearly left me stranded after I got food then stopped for gas. I've got 14.2V at the battery while it's running. I'm thinking the starter is going but I don't want to shell out the coin for a new starter just to find out I'm wrong again. The new battery wasn't cheap. Have any of you stripped an Automatic starter and rebuilt your manual trans? The automatic starters are cheap. Any luck with the cheap $70 ebay starters?
Thanks
Thanks
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
what is a shiftervan? what is a stripped automatic starter and the correlation to a manual transmission?
If it was in storage, check all your cables and grounds for corrosion or gnawing from critters. 14.2v would indicate a good alternator but you may still have a bad connection somewhere.
If it was in storage, check all your cables and grounds for corrosion or gnawing from critters. 14.2v would indicate a good alternator but you may still have a bad connection somewhere.
Last edited by Iggy; Jun 28, 2018 at 02:19 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 248
Likes: 60
From: Rockford, IL
what is a shiftervan? what is a stripped automatic starter and the correlation to a manual transmission?
If it was in storage, check all your cables and grounds for corrosion or gnawing from critters. 14.2v would indicate a good alternator but you may still have a bad connection somewhere.
If it was in storage, check all your cables and grounds for corrosion or gnawing from critters. 14.2v would indicate a good alternator but you may still have a bad connection somewhere.
Last edited by johnboy1313; Jun 28, 2018 at 02:54 PM.
Looking at the starter rebuild data in the Helms, it does not designate any particular differences between the Auto CL and CL6 starters. Probably only in the case?
I checked the differences between the CL6 and the Auto Odyssey and they look pretty much the same.
So if you have your old Odyssey starter, if it was for a V6, you may be able to fit its 'guts' into the CLS6 casing?
03 CLS6:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
00 Odyssey:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
Good Luck
I checked the differences between the CL6 and the Auto Odyssey and they look pretty much the same.
So if you have your old Odyssey starter, if it was for a V6, you may be able to fit its 'guts' into the CLS6 casing?
03 CLS6:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
00 Odyssey:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
Good Luck
Last edited by zeta; Jun 28, 2018 at 03:16 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 248
Likes: 60
From: Rockford, IL
Looking at the starter rebuild data in the Helms, it does not designate any particular differences between the Auto CL and CL6 starters. Probably only in the case?
I checked the differences between the CL6 and the Auto Odyssey and they look pretty much the same.
So if you have your old Odyssey starter, if it was for a V6, you may be able to fit its 'guts' into the CLS6 casing?
03 CLS6:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
00 Odyssey:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
Good Luck
I checked the differences between the CL6 and the Auto Odyssey and they look pretty much the same.
So if you have your old Odyssey starter, if it was for a V6, you may be able to fit its 'guts' into the CLS6 casing?
03 CLS6:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
00 Odyssey:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
Good Luck
You thinking about rebuilding the CLS6 tranny to replace fourth gear?
If so, teh CL may have some parts to fit your needs. He is selling a diff. on the black market. Check it out:
https://acurazine.com/forums/market/968666
If so, teh CL may have some parts to fit your needs. He is selling a diff. on the black market. Check it out:
https://acurazine.com/forums/market/968666
Last edited by zeta; Jun 28, 2018 at 03:39 PM.
You thinking about rebuilding the CLS6 tranny to replace fourth gear?
If so, teh CL may have some parts to fit your needs. He is selling a diff. on the black market. Check it out:
https://acurazine.com/forums/market/968666
If so, teh CL may have some parts to fit your needs. He is selling a diff. on the black market. Check it out:
https://acurazine.com/forums/market/968666
https://acurazine.com/forums/market/971050
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 248
Likes: 60
From: Rockford, IL
Iggy, this is the shiftervan. I built it last year.
The dude that rebuilt the automatic in my wife's van quoted $800-$1000 to fix mine. I'm not pulling this back out for now. Unless I have access to a lift. I might do it then. Due to the cost of gas and the 15mpg this thing averages, I'd probably stick a J35A4 out of an Odyssey in it with the six speed trans and maybe even put the stock exhaust and air cleaner back on. One will probably lead to another. I found an 01 A6 Allroad wagon with a twin turbo 2.7L for $1500 with a bunch of work done and a lot of new parts, but a little parasitic drain somewhere. I was stoked on it till I saw the automatic. The body was in decent shape. It really weathered. If it had a manual trans, it mighta been the end of the road for me and the old shiftervan.
Anyway, I mighta found the problem with my van and it not wanting to start. I've spent the better part of the last two hours mimicking my lunch routine yesterday. Long story short, I wrapped the starter with a piece I cut from a $4 windshield sunscreen. I measured the starter to be roughly 5.5" so I cut an 11" strip, folded it in half, and wrapped it around the starter. It's longer than one full wrap so it's doubled up at the front and top. It still starts a little slower than normal every time but it doesn't seem to be getting any slower. I drove several miles, I let it idle in the driveway like I was at the drive through yesterday, and I shut it off here and there too. I measured the battery voltage before and after each start. With the engine off, the original voltage was 12.99 but it dropped to 12.7 after the first trip and stayed there the rest of the time. It's now been sitting for a half hour with a hot engine. It fired right up. I don't know if the lower radiator hose is the culprit or the headers. Maybe both. I'm sure it's on its last legs but maybe I can push having to get a starter out a month or so, maybe longer.
Last edited by johnboy1313; Jun 28, 2018 at 05:29 PM.
Just so you know, the manual starter part number for the 03 CL-S6 is 31200-PGE-A11.
The 04 TL manual car starter part number is 31200-RCA-A02.
They are the same exact starter except for a small bracket that the ground wire clips onto. You can swap that bracket in 2 minutes as it's held on by a single bolt. They are both available for like $70 shipped on eBay.
The 04 TL manual car starter part number is 31200-RCA-A02.
They are the same exact starter except for a small bracket that the ground wire clips onto. You can swap that bracket in 2 minutes as it's held on by a single bolt. They are both available for like $70 shipped on eBay.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
Johnboy, I hadn't read about your shiftervan project until this morning. My apologies.
TOTALLY fun project!
So you think the starter issue is a heat-soak related problem? I'm curious, from an electrical standpoint, what would have changed internally to the starter that would cause that?
TOTALLY fun project!
So you think the starter issue is a heat-soak related problem? I'm curious, from an electrical standpoint, what would have changed internally to the starter that would cause that?
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
Another question.
I saw you went with the Manzo headers. How was the fitment while bolting it up and have you experienced any vibration/resonance with a cold engine?
Reason I ask is when I did my J35 swap I went with a DC Sports setup and have been fighting with an odd vibration/resonance issue that occurs only with a cold engine in the sub 2k RPM range. It seems to subside once everything warms up. I went back to the stock exhaust which of course cured the problem but I couldn't stand the performance hit.
I tried the Manzo's(got them really cheap) and had the same vibration issue, albeit slightly less, but found them to be horribly loud/raspy, and the performance increase wasn't much better than the stockers. Also, the fitment was terrible requiring a pinch bar just to bolt up the J-pipe. The DC's fit together perfectly.
Sooo....... I went back to the DC's. It turns out, the Manzo primary tubes are each 1/8" smaller, the downpipes are 1/4" smaller and tubing gauge is thinner than the DC's which would account for the lack of performance and noise levels. Alas, I'm back to where I started with the cold engine vibration issue.
Any words of wisdom?
I saw you went with the Manzo headers. How was the fitment while bolting it up and have you experienced any vibration/resonance with a cold engine?
Reason I ask is when I did my J35 swap I went with a DC Sports setup and have been fighting with an odd vibration/resonance issue that occurs only with a cold engine in the sub 2k RPM range. It seems to subside once everything warms up. I went back to the stock exhaust which of course cured the problem but I couldn't stand the performance hit.
I tried the Manzo's(got them really cheap) and had the same vibration issue, albeit slightly less, but found them to be horribly loud/raspy, and the performance increase wasn't much better than the stockers. Also, the fitment was terrible requiring a pinch bar just to bolt up the J-pipe. The DC's fit together perfectly.
Sooo....... I went back to the DC's. It turns out, the Manzo primary tubes are each 1/8" smaller, the downpipes are 1/4" smaller and tubing gauge is thinner than the DC's which would account for the lack of performance and noise levels. Alas, I'm back to where I started with the cold engine vibration issue.
Any words of wisdom?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 248
Likes: 60
From: Rockford, IL
Well, I haven't had any real issues since the starter was wrapped. It still cranks slow at first but once it's cranking, it seems to be fine. I will eventually replace the starter, but I'm happy for now that I found the issue. Thanks for the help guys.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 248
Likes: 60
From: Rockford, IL
My starter has been getting worse the last week or so. I went to the local pick n pull today and got a $29 starter out of a 2000 Odyssey. I took all of the parts off of the automatic case and swapped them onto the case for the manual starter. It's as good as new now. I found out the bearings on both ends of the armature were almost seized. So just to add to the tribal knowledge on this forum, you absolutely can rebuild a manual starter with parts from a cheaper automatic.
Looking at the starter rebuild data in the Helms, it does not designate any particular differences between the Auto CL and CL6 starters. Probably only in the case?
I checked the differences between the CL6 and the Auto Odyssey and they look pretty much the same.
So if you have your old Odyssey starter, if it was for a V6, you may be able to fit its 'guts' into the CLS6 casing?
03 CLS6:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
00 Odyssey:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
Good Luck
I checked the differences between the CL6 and the Auto Odyssey and they look pretty much the same.
So if you have your old Odyssey starter, if it was for a V6, you may be able to fit its 'guts' into the CLS6 casing?
03 CLS6:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
00 Odyssey:
https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...r-mitsuba-scat
Good Luck
Thanks for the effort and validation johnboy1313.
Good to hear that we were correct in our assumptions.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 248
Likes: 60
From: Rockford, IL
There really wasn't much effort in it at all. Other than getting the starter out of the donor van, there was maybe five extra minutes of labor compared to buying a new one and putting it on. Make sure you check the condition of the donor brushes, bearings, and windings before you put them all back together. Used parts are still used parts.
LOL, I guess when I say 'effort' I'm referring more to those who 'take' and then don't bother to come back and update their 'threads' with any feedback.
Not that there is an obligation or anything; however, it does add to the 'tribal knowledge base', as with your starter rebuild case, of the forum.
Not that there is an obligation or anything; however, it does add to the 'tribal knowledge base', as with your starter rebuild case, of the forum.
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