Okay, I have been on the forum for a long time but it would take me too long to scan through all of the relevant threads to get answers to a few relatively easy questiosn...

CT supercharger...what are the dyno gains on an auto 03 CLS and more importantly what are the PROVEN gains as opposed to quoting CT's statistics? Does CT add the headers and Icebox to the mix (which in itself could be 25hp at the wheels) and if they do, how much does the SC actually add? If not, are the gains additive? For $4K I really want to make sure that if I make the jump it is worth it!!! Also, I have found SC sites that list the CT SC for less that CT does. Does anyone know the cheapest place to order it if it is worth it?

Perhaps all I am looking for is a voice of reason or an extra nudge...anyone?

Thanks in advance.

 

Andy,

Ok ....I saw a stock CLS-Auto with no headers dynoed at 215 lbft and 235 WHP SAE.

It was posted couple days ago. I did 1/4 mile sim run and it was clocked at 13.9s at 99 MPH. I guess with headers you may see 10-15 WHP more MAX... some SC with Headers should be at 225 lbft and 250 WHP SAE.

Nashua.

 

I would hold off until there are a lot of people raving about the kit. Just doesn't seem to be enough unbiased opinions of people who know what they are talking about out there yet.

 

Thanks Ray. I hear you. I started a new job so I have a little more extra cake floating around and my fiance' just bought an MDX so I feel justified in "loving" my car more. So the SC seemed the way to go since I have most of the big power mods besides pulleys which I don't think are THAT worth the $300. I just need to see more than really cool pictures before I jump.

 

blackmagiCL_S,

Where are you working now ?

 

Okay..and with the OBX before the Icebox I was at 220whp. So is 30hp worth $4K...I don't think so. Maybe if I was a track rat..but I am not.

 

Oh... one thing with SC.. you gain torque.. with headers only peak gains.

For example your CLS will have a flat 185-190 lbft of torque all way to 6500 rpms. a SC CLS will have 225-225 lbft of torque all the way to 6500 rpms. A 35lbft of torque more will put a CLS engine making more than 335 HP.... like an M3.

But frankly.. what is the difference between a 14.5s car and 13.5s car... it is only 1sec that will cost some $6000! (don't forget installation and dyno tuning!)

 

I just dyno'd 240.3hp / 221.7ft.lb SAE corrected, at the wheels. The only mod besides the stock kit is the $80 upgrade pulley. The Stone Racing headers just arrived at Swain Tech or the dyno would include headers. I'm expecting another 20-30hp from the headers, and I will dyno again once they're installed. The six speeders are getting 20-30hp more.

And Ray khan,.... what are you talking about? What else do you want to know? Please explain,.....

 

I switched to a start-up company. A huge change in a risky economy but I feel great about the change. Going from 3500 employees to 60 is scary. And 60 is only because we had enough cash to buy another company that had patent and IP stuff we wanted....I was employee 26 before that! It worked out great though. I am a much happier CLS pilot now! Thanks for asking Mahmoud! I hope that you are doing well. I hope that the CLS is doing well too! Someday I'll line up against you at the track!

 

mmm...50hp at the wheels is nice. I am very (VERY!) curious to see what the headers add since I would be doing it the other way around but the end total should be similar. As many people here will testify to, it is so easy to light up your front wheels with just the headers. Do most people take advantage of the SC power on the highway? Is the automatic SC curve that great above say...3000rpm?

 

blackmagiCL_S, I have never been on a track, and probably never will. With the upgrade pulley, which you can run because your premium pump fuel is at least 93 octane, the gains from the S/C on top of your 220hp will be 60hp. Nashau has explained the torque issues, now you need to understand the "area under the curve". Take a b4 and after dyno on headers. the area between the two graphs is shaped like a very small slice of pie. A thin sliver until you get to the crust. A very small area under the curve. Now take a b4 and after S/C dyno. It's shaped more like a 3" piece of sheet cake the entire length of the long side of the pan. Now that's what I call gains. It is by far the best $$ per hp/tq gains, "under the curve" compared to all the other mods put together,....except maybe the bottle.

The only negative opinions on the S/C installs, are from people that don't have them. If you don't have the $4k to spend on something you really don't need, you probably shouldn't buy it. If you do, contact DeansblackCLS for the best price. Order the upgrade pulley right from the start, in lieu of the stock pulley, you won't need it. As far as unbiased opinions go,...I don't care if anyone buys it. I don't expect many will,...after all who can afford $4k for something they really don't need.

 

Thanks. When it comes to any mod it is money people don't need to spend. My car is hella fast now but like anything else, you want better and faster. $4K is a LOT of money. I just wanted to fish around for opinions. I understand what you mean about the curve shift since I have looked into SC vs. turbo issues which would change the shape of the "cake" as you put it. I guess that there is a ton of potential in our engines. I was only worried that since with the headers and Icebox (which is included anyway in the SC?) that I wouldn't be buying the hp that I was expecting.

Arg...$4K is a lot! Plus install!

Nashua...think Gary could do it?

 

blackmagiCL_S, I am a traveling salesman. I put 40k highway miles a year on my cars. The kick down gear, at any speed, below 75 (2700rpm) will pin you back in your seat. That is precisely where this set-up really shines,..from a roll, just about anywhere.

There is no dyno tuning needed. the set-up is rich to start with. Without the ability to re-map the timing and fuel curves, you're safer to leave it be. You can lean it out a bit, but you don't need a dyno for that, just a keen ear to listen for spark knock, by then you've gone too far.

 

What is the stock hp/ft.lb. at the wheels on the automatics?

 

I will do another dyno run as soon as the headers are on. It's looking like labor day weekend for the install.
Here's the Dyno http://www.photohost.org/gallery/sho...t=7&thecat=500

 

Just to make it simpler, here is ModAddict SC dyno overlayed on CLS dyno with CT ICE box and CT headers



Note: the gained torque with the SC!

Gary can do it for sure, but his buddy is expert in custom turbo/SC he may refer you to him. Gary is more into Hybrids swaps and regular install stuff.

ModAddict, CLS stock will dyno at 170-175 lbft and top at 195-200 WHP.

 

Nice job Nashau! A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

I'm going to try to re-scan that dyno. Those colors are messed up!

 

ModAddict,

Note also that your dyno, after 5000 rpms your TQ is droping fast like any CLS with stock headers, with Stone headers/CT/OBX headers TQ will stay flat all the way to 6500 rpms (proven fact). At 6500 rpm with headers, if you gain 30 lbft (possible) you will be at least at some 275 WHP!

Nashua.

 

Thanks you sir...that is the juice I was looking for....you guys rock...now if I can just part with the cash....that looks pretty sweet.



Seriously guys...thanks...this is why it is nice to be part of a forum!

NOw is Dean the cheapest around? I HAVE seen them at other SC sites....

 

blackmagiCL_S,

You have mail.

 

Thanks but has anyone done the SC WITH headers?

231whp is awsome...better than my 220whp (before icebox) but my question about additive is still out there. OR maybe I missed something...

OBX I dynoed (and Nashua will swear) at 220whp (he got 222 with Stone and pulleys if I recall)....those cost me used less than others by a little bit but say $400...If I get an extra 30hp I'd jump.....

 

I can also overlay, Mike's famous CLS-5AT dyno. stock, CT headers, CT headers and AEM CAI.

Just give me few minutes,

Nashua.

 

blackmagiCL_S,

The 231 you see up there is without headers.....just the S/C and Icebox...

 

Ah Dean....thank you...

So, WITH headers what type of gain is expected? I LOVE the graphs saying one or the other but do I have to take off the headers to do the other? Do you know what I mean? If I can get 20-40hp over header I'd jump but if it is 5-15 them why pay...KWIM?

 

blackmagiCL_S,

From everything Comptech has told me, the S/C is a gain of 42-45WHP OVER the headers on the stock boost pulley (4-4.5lbs). With the upgraded pulley, 6lbs, (and the use of at least 93 octane fuel) the gains should be around 50-52.

 

AK! Stop it! I have to sleep!

Dean....no more Si?

 

OK, no problem...

No more Si....sold it for the CL-S Love the new car...it is much more comfortable and the difference in torque is amazing.

 

Glad you stayed in the Honda family...Do you guys do stuff for an MDX....PM if you have something to show....my fiance' might (MIGHT!) be interested.

 

Out of curiousiy, SC plus pulley....how much would you charge...PM if you like. Now that I own this b!tch I can mod her like crazy!

 

Yeah, I have had Honda product since I was 15, so it is kind of engrained in me to stick with it.

Comptech currently does not have anything out for the MDX. I have been pushing really hard for the S/C, though I know, I am an evil one.....

Sent you a PM with the cost of the S/C--I will have upgraded pulley pricing very soon as we are waiting for several to arrive.

 

I hope it is not too confusing. Here it is:

Dyno#1: Mike's CLS, Stock: 195 WHP
Dyno#2: Mike's CLS, CT headers: 226 WHP
Dyno#3: Mike's CLS, CT headers, AEM CAI 235 WHP.
Dyno#4: CT ICE box and CT headers 231 WHP.
Dyno#5: ModAddict CT SC with 6PSI pulley. 241 WHP
Dyno#6: ModAddict CT SC with 6PSI pulley, IMRC ON 241 WHP

 

Why don't you guys throw in my dyno while you are at it

345whp and 312ft/lbs of torque at 5.5psi

The GREEN curve: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gun...ts.jpg&.view=t

 

allmotor,

Showoff!!!

Don't worry---I am just jealous...

 

I'm just trying to be a jerk - I've had too many problems lately due to a stupid mistake!

 

allmotor_2000

No problem, just submit an SAE DynoJet sheet

I will include it for you ..

 

Okay....you at Garys, pullys, AEM, and OBX= 215 (????)
Andy Stock was 202 hp
With OBX (one pull...I had to go!!!!) 219hp)
That puts me at 292 at the crank....

I can't explain the problems...

 

We did before and after we switched OBX to Stone Headers.

With Injen CAI, OBX headers, UR Pulley, NGK Iridium plugs and 16" winter tires (bit bigger than my summer tires by 1.6%) : 216 WHP SAE

With Injen CAI, Stone Headers, UR Pulley, NGK Iridium plugs and 16" winter tires (bit bigger than my summer tires by 1.6%) : 220 WHP SAE

Note last September when I installed my OBX headers, I dynoed:
With Injen CAI, OBX headers, UR Pulley, NGK Iridium plugs and my 18" summer tires 226 WHP SAE so, there is 10 WHP loss due to tire/wheels and SAE correction.

Full disscusion is in my sig below. Note that the Acutal HP is totally different with Stone Headers and in that 45F weather in Feb I was dynoing 238 Acural HP. Compare this to September 11 2002 pull of 221 Acutal.


Note: Your numbers are in STD. 202 before and 220 after. At some rpms > 5500 rpms ypu gained more than 20 WHP.

Nashua.

 

Now I remember...stock I was at 202 and afterward OBX I was at a weak 220. SAE wihtout playing with anthing else. C@rist...it was nearly 32F, 0C....Work your magic....mind you 220whp is sweet...

 

Oh I grabbed your soft version runs! if you need them so you can view them the way you like in the DynoJet Viewer (as in my sig), I will email them to you.

BTW, Your numbers:

Actual: before 210 WHP , after 228. Gain of 25 WHP after 6600 rpms.
STD: before 205 WHP , after 222. Gain of 22 WHP after 6600 rpms.
SAE: before 196 WHP , after 212. Gain of 21-24 WHP after 6600 rpms.

Nashua.