spiroh

I spoke with a person from the Chicago-Land area, which he has done a lot of mods to his Type S. He has dynoed every part that he has done to his car, and he gained 17hp to the wheels by upgrading the cat. I might be going with him to the track tomorrow, and he will give me a copy of the dyno sheets. If anybody went to the Import Drags last year at Joliet, he was the one that ran a 15.1 stock with his CL-S. I will get more info later, but for $250 that sounds like a VERY GOOD Mod to do.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Is there an application for the Type-S? What part number? where and for how much we can buy ?

And please do post the dyno plot.

Thanks.



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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S, NAV.
- 3M clear bra, by Stonguard (full front bumper, and side mirrors, and partial hood)
- Acura Spoiler, Moonroof visor
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- 03/19/01: Injen Polished CAI
- 04/13/01: 235/40/18 NITTO 555 on 18x7.5, +45 offset, Koing Imagine in Silver with wheels locks

scalbert

Considering that I have never seen that type of increase in swapping out a cat in a non-turbo application I highly doubt it.

Secondly, I will try and stop by Random and look at the cat they apparently have for the CL, not truly marketed as for the CL. We have the HOS2 (second O2 sensors) mounted in the cat its self. Without this you will be setting DTCs like crazy. There are tricks to fool the computer in thinking that the sensor is still in the gas flow path. But I haven't seen anything applied to the CL yet.

Didn't Honda start using wider band O2 sensors?? Lambda 1 style or similar?? If so the trick is pointless then…

Anyway, most NA vehicles in our HP range would see more than a couple HP gain out of changing the CAT. Modern OEM cats have little restriction in them. I have been working on a system to heat cycle test cats for an OEM supplier. We found only a couple inches of H2O back pressure at flow rates in the couple hundred CFM. Very little to affect our engine noticeably.

Secondly, no reputable shop will do it for you so you had better plan on the swap your self. It is illegal to replace a functioning catalytic converter on a street vehicle.

NOVAwhiteTypeS

I agree w/ you partly but, for the headers, I havn't really seen just bolt on headers give 32 hp to the wheels like it does to our cars, and would of never believed it either.

If it doesn't increase cabin noise level, I'm all up for it. Also doesn't the header already help the exahust system so may be if u have headers, and a after market cat the gains won't be that great. JMO.

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CL-S
White/Ebony/Navi/Spoiler/Visor/Full Bra/Mud Guards/Acura Car Cover/Tint 20%,35%,5% on Sun Roof, Rockford 250a2 Amp w/JL10w6 / K&N Drop in Filter.Polarg m-6.
Comptech Headers,Springs,Sways, Eurolite Xenon Crystal high beams.Polarg m6


gtech 0-60 6.03 w/ 438 pound load. preheader.

WebToker

Lets wait till we see the dynos to start doubting the guy. Then we can flame his ass


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Mustang Killa

scalbert

I have seen headers give that type of increase before, and having seen the design of the stock cast peices it is not too suprising.

But I have also looked at the CL-S cat on and off the car (even cut open) to know that it is not very restrictive.

At the time I was unable to get the flow test results for our oem cat (which I will try to do), but from memory thay stated that it was about 4" at 450 CFM. Our cars would hardly choke on that.

Also, what about the HOS2 issue?? To many unanswered variables to beleive in this one at this time. I'm not commenting out of ignorance on these matters.

1max2nv

Don't believe the manufacture's claim. I dynoed RT cat for a maxima and it didn't even come close to their numbers.

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1999 Nissan Maxima

spiroh

Hopefully I will see the guy tomorrow, and get the dyno sheets. He did mention that he had to extend the o2 sensor, because the model that he used was the accord (part #822008) This is what he dynoed:

Stock 191
Headers 211
Random Tech 228
Exhaust and Homemade intake 235

I know for a fact he is not lying, because the people who installed my intake, installed the parts for him. And even though the number look low for the headers, 20 + 17 =37 HP not bad for a $250 mod.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

spiroh

1max,

This mod has been dynoed. I'm not going by the manufacturers claim.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

4thGSi

I was at the Battle of the Import last year. He is the only one who's representin the CL-S at that time, and actually i was checking the car. That's why i got my CL-S because of that. It' sucks that he only did one run 15.1 @ 1/4 mile, and also he was putting some ice bag on the top of the intake manifold after that run and then he disappear. Hay, Spiroh are you going this coming September at Battle of the Imports?

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1990Si
2001CL-S

spiroh

His car was stock when he did a 15.1. Yeah I might as well go. I like going to the races.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

so cal type s_RENAMED

i called random a while back and they said some guy dynoed at 7 or 9 to the wheels. .i don't remember. .



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'01 cl-s blk/blk :: comptech headers, comptech springs, comptech sway bars

spiroh

Still even at 7-9hp to the wheels, that is a good jump of HP for 250.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

scalbert

Did the same shop that did the install dyno it??

I question this since they broke federal law here and by that very nature are going to want a happy customer.

By relocating a emission control items without having it approved by inspection and certification you are violating federal law. In states that do visual inspections this might be found.

If Random made a direct swap in I would be surprised to see this type of gain.

And BTW, wouldn't you think that it is unusual that a smaller cat (and yes the Accord cat is smaller in length and inlet/outlet diameter) would gain so much??

So why don't we go out and install 1.5" exhaust plumbing all the way through and we might see a 30 hp gain??

scalbert

After looking at the numbers a bit more it becomes very obvious he had a malfunctioning IMRC. I dyno'd 190/191 with the IMRC not functioning.

Then when the headers were on it still wasn't working. I think it was Astroboy who dyno'd with headers and a Faulty IMRC and came out at about 211...

So the IMRC could have been fixed and could certainly give a 17 hp increase. Just a thought but it seems to fit very well.

spiroh

Well if it doesnt rain over here, I will be going to the track with him. I dont understand why you always doubt everything? Just wait till I get the dynos. and we'll see. He did not mention to me anything about a faulty IMRC, but I will bring it up to him.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

scalbert

Doubt everything, interesting?? I often agree with some statements. Secondly, if I don't disagree with a statement, why would I need to post my support??

I am not basing my opinion to simply disagree. There are points I have made to back up my ideas.

1. I have seen the cat off the car and cut open and have been given an idea on the backpressure they run. A general rule for NA cars is that for every 1" H2O you drop in statis pressure you pick up 1 HP. We don't flow more than 500 CFM, the test run (and I will try and get the flow sheets) would indicate that there really wouldn't be more than a 6 - 7 CFM at this rate. So the potential gain is 6 -7 HP max. The Random cat will not be without a static pressure, say even 3" then the max gain is in the 3 - 4 HP range.

This is not speculation, it is simple math...

2. The Accord cat is smaller in every way. How could smaller diameter exhaust piping flow better?? And we are not over sized to begin with.

3. The shop illegally made changes, could they have influenced the dyno readings to make a better showing, now this is speculation I certainly admit it!!

4. The dyno numbers correlate to what others have witnessed with a faulty IMRC. With it working the last numbers seems to match. This also is speculation but with a serious possibility of being true.

I'm not trying to discredit anyone. But I do know a few things and a forum of this type is meant to share these ideas and views. If I am correct in my deductions then we may of saved a few people from wasting money and maybe looking like fools. If I am incorrect I will admit it and look for the reasons why my reasoning is wrong.

But 1 dyno that is already suspect will hardly determines if this is an actual gain. Multiple runs by multiple people would be a better confirmation.

Take care


[This message has been edited by scalbert (edited 05-04-2001).]

BNut

That's the problem, we need MORE people to dyno their mods before and after so we can get better data so we can draw better conclusions.

It's seems like there are only a handful of people that ever dyno their cars and then the a handful of people always questioning the validity. (Nothing wrong with that but not very helpful) Rather than question validity, help everyone out, and dyno it yourself, so the rest of us can see if its a fluke or maybe for real. This isn't directed to you scalbert, but just in general from the responses I have seen when anyone makes any type of dyno claims after spending money to have their mod tested.

One of the reasons we have this message board is to help others out! Lets get busy helping!

For example, everyone claims exhaust is only 2hp gain, yet how many people here have dyno'd their car before and adding the exhaust? Therefore if someone does dyno their car with exhaust and sees a 7hp gain, everyone cries FOUL because everyones just "knows" that exhaust only gains 2hp, therefore the dyno must be flawed.

Just FYI, I have talked to Mike B and CompTech does not use a DynoJet dyno, which is what most of us have dyno'd our cars with. They used a load based dyno (forgot what's its called) which I believe has two rollers per tire, whereas the DynoJet dyno uses a single roller per tire. Comparing CompTech's dyno's to DynoJet dyno's is in my opinion apples and oranges. No one with an Accord has ever seen the dyno gains that comptech showed on their test Accord.

Oh well, I'm rambling now, so I'll shut up.

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2000 Acccord LX V6 Sedan
- Eibach Pro-Kit Springs& Koni Yellow Shocks
- AEM Short Ram Intake
- AEM Tru-Power Pulleys
- Jet Hot Coated CompTech Headers
- 15.45 @ 88.8mph (Track)

Vampyre

RT makes a great product. I just installed their CAT for the GP's along with a Downpipe and gained approximately about 10-12 at the wheels, (via others dyno's with equal other mods) This was actually MORE than RT claimed (they said 8-9). So far it runs great. Oh and as for the legality, yes it's illegal to change a 'functioning' CAT but not a damaged one. Boy, suprising how the CAT metal is sooo easily dented if you 'accidently' drive over a metal pipe or something similar...... Mine was 'damaged' during an earlier install of some exhaust work. Therefore, I HAD to go to an aftermarket shop since my mods voided the warranty and therefore allowed an outside shop fix it. (With my parts of course, being the RT CAT).

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Andrew S.
2000 Dark Forest Green GTP/GTX
Best 1/4: 14.413@95.03
Best 1/8: 9.051@78.25
Dyno: 211.9 fwhp; 303.6 fwtq

My Mod Page

2001 San Marino Red Acura 3.2 CL Type S
* No Mods Yet, though planned *

scalbert

Ah yes, that crinkled downpipe of the 3800 Series II. Played around with that several times.

From what I recall about the GP cat and just swapping it out, most people realized about 3 - 4 HP in that mod alone.

Thrahser even did a on-the-car study of the stock system many years ago and came to about the same conclusion.

scalbert

I couldn't agree more. The problem in this case is that the cat in question is not a direct swap out and would require cutting and welding, etc. to install. Not something that easily allows for before and after tests. Otherwise if it were a direct replacement, I would happilly drive over to Random (they are about 30 minutes from me) buy one go to the local dyno, make two runs, swap it out and make two more runs.

Runs on the same day on the same dyno within 30 minutes of each other should be a good indication of gains/losses.

However, due to the difficulty of the install I doubt this will happen until a cat is made available for the CL-S.

BTW, I did provide some before/after results of the Accord/TL intake on the CL-S back last August. Money well spent IMO as it showed a faulty IMRC. Notice how the torque never increases after 3800 as it should. It dropped at 3500 and never came back up:

http://www.flwsoutheast.com/images/steve/DynoScan.JPG

I also planned on doing this with the pulleys but they never came in on time:

http://www.flwsoutheast.com/images/s...o/DSC00007.JPG

http://www.flwsoutheast.com/images/s...o/DSC00009.JPG

And a nice veiw of the Comptech A-Pipe while up on the dyno:

http://www.flwsoutheast.com/images/s...o/DSC00008.JPG

spiroh

No the cat is a bolt on mod. The only thing that needs to be done, is have the o2 sensor extended an exra 6" But I have no problem getting my car dynoed, before and after. When I get some cash going, I'll try that mod out. Worst that is gonna happen is put the stock one back on.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

[This message has been edited by spiroh (edited 05-04-2001).]

scalbert

Sorry, I wasn't very clear on this matter. However, Cutting and welding of a new O2 sensor fitting would be needed post catalytic converter. Relocation requires it to still be mounted in the exhaust pipe.

For test purposes you could fit it in and run it. A DTC would probably be set but that could be cleared later. But true results could be seen for pre and post runs.

In fact, if I had a scan tool (or Autotap) I'd be glad to try it out also. Any loaners out there of scan tools??

I'm looking forward to seeing the dyno plots as they would certainly show if there had been a faulty IMRC

so cal type s_RENAMED

alright. i found the answer. if scalbert buys the cat, we can conclude this neverending debate! and peace in mind, might i add. .

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'01 cl-s blk/blk :: comptech headers, comptech springs, comptech sway bars

spiroh

I will try and get them today.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

gavriil

I agree 100%! 17 HP at the wheels out of our cat on an NA application and with an exhaust system which already has being upgraded by Acura sounds bogus.



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Gabriel
CL Type S

EricL

Sorry, this sounds like the Level-10 torque converter and the 1/2 - 1 second gain in the 1/4 mile.

I would very much like to see the "dynos" before and after with pictures.

(And I can't even have a 4.0 Turbo here in California with the smog police...)


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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

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