How many people here actually believe a throttle body spacer adds performance?
How many believe an intake spacer and a thermal intake manifold gasket does anything to improve performance?
A CAI on an FI engine?

 

FACT: any air tuning is done in the intake manifold and NOT BEFORE it.
therefore; throttle body spacers DONT DO JACK SHIT.

FACT: more air = more power. intake manifold spacers ADD VOLUME. and is good for a few horsies.

 

[QUOTE=justnspace;15342335]FACT: any air tuning is done in the intake manifold and NOT BEFORE it.
therefore; throttle body spacers DONT DO JACK SHIT.
Pretty much, if throttle body spacers were effective then why not add a couple of bends in your intake tubing for more power

FACT: more air = more power. intake manifold spacers ADD VOLUME. and is good for a few horsies.
Fact: more air + more fuel = more power. The volume of air you get in the combustion chambers isn't going to be changed by the volume of pi x radius squared x height of those spacers. The chambers are only going to hold as much air as they are capable of holding. The intake valves are still going to be open for the same duration and the vacuum created by the pistons is not going to change.
More air is not being drawn in.
Bigger valves and pistons along with cams to increase the duration of valve opening will make more power, assuming more fuel is added also. A spacer is not going to mimic that action.
And as for those thermal gaskets... no, just no.

Anyway, just trying to get some activity going here

 

Ppl have dynoed 1-2 hp gains off of a tb spacer on integras at least so...FACT lol it also prevents heat sink.

But in all serousness. It was said ... any air tuning is done in the manifold and not before it. So that would mean an intake also does not add power.?

If you even try defending that I'm going to cry laughing.

 

I think (hope) you're joining in on the joke. I guess we'll both be laughing because I'm laughing at the 1-2 hp gain from a tbody spacer. It doesn't do anything. How could it? All you're doing is replacing a small portion of rubber intake piping with metal. What is that going to accomplish?
There's no heatsink. The spacer is going to hold more heat because it's metal. It doesn't matter anyway because that air is moving so fast it isn't going to make any difference what material it's flowing through.
The length and shape of the intake runners matters. The valves and cams matter most.
A "cold air intake?" Maybe possibly a tiny bit on an NA car. On a turbocharged car it's pointless since the compressor is just going to heat the air up. It sounds cool tho
The CL (TL too I'm assuming since its probably exactly the same) has a great intake setup. Except for the resonator/silencer thing.

 

The TL and Cl have decent air boxes. Yes it pulls in colder are from the fender but the cold air intake is much much more free flowing allowing for more velocity to hit the manifold and creates more power. I cannot believe I am trying to convince someone an intake actually helps. They are not placebos... On some extremely good stock set up cars your right it may be making it worse to some degree, but the Cl is surely not one of them. We are talking 100k cars and up at that point. Our cls ain't that good lol

As for The tb spacer it is added on top of everything else. You don't remove anything so you may want to look into that. And then u can put on two thermal spacers which does stop the transfer of heat. I have it on my car. The issue is it move the intake over and the mount is then useless. That was the dumbest part that pissed me off about the damn tb spacer. I also added the thermal spacer between the runners and manifold and I could drive for an hour and then open the hood on a hot day and rest my hand the plenums. I could never have done that before it was scorching. I was really surprised it even made a difference I could tangibly notice. If the car were to sit with the hood closed the heat in the bay would bake the manifold and actually increase the temp while that car is not even driving. That's a fact

As for the dyno.. Im just reiterating what others have claimed, I definitely don't feel a damn difference but still it is what it is. If they have dynoed there car and gotten that result, I would believe that over any one opinion on physics or anything else. You should not be hating on something when you opinion is quite bias and you seem to have a lack of knowledge with regards to your arguments about it. Because you don't remove anything to add it on. They give u longer bolts so it can fit behind the tb to the manifold neck. And in my opinion between that and the manifold thermal spacer it's helping to isolate the entire manifold from the heat in the tb from the coolant running through it and from the motor transferring heat into the manifold.


An intake clearly adds 8 hp on our cars. I don't know if that was peak or at one point in the powerband but u can feel it, that's all that matters. I could actually feel the difference when I did my car. That's what started the disease. I have added intakes to a cobalt ss, Mazda 6 3.0, Honda prelude, mustang bullitt. I could literally feel the power on all of them. Fact

My car dynoed 229whp and now I also have a high flow cat and ct mufflers (mine had holes through them and sounded like a g35 when I dynoed the car) so more like 235 whp on an auto. Which is supposed to have 195-205 depending on the dyno.

That's over a 15% gain on peak hp. Let alone the actually power curve was almost a dead straight graduation.

I did each mod myself and some I could feel clearly... Headers obviously, next was the underdrive pulley, next was the intake, next was the plenums. The rest were minuscule yes, but when I hear someone argue they are absolutely pointless I need to point out that... Everything adds up. You gotta stop hating. Life's good :-)

 

You could try doing some simple researching instead of posting all these new threads that have all already been discussed.

The 3G TL owners are convinced an intake can make no additional power over stock and that oem intake is fully optimized from factory. You don't get that same argument from the 2g community.

 

I agree TB spacers don't do much besides adding another sensor fitting spot.

You can't just say more air is more power. You have to add fuel to the air, and also be able to effectively evacuate that air through the exhaust system.

You also can't just say I'M Spacer is good for a few horses. Adding volume to the runners shifts the power curve lower, it does not add hp.

Bigger intake and bigger TB will add(free up) power if accompanied by supporting mods. OEM and Comptech Intake are restricted to 2.5" or less. I would want atleast a 3".

Not trying to pick on you, but it seems all your posts are full of misinformation.

 

So when the focus rs comes out Brian. You going to be jealous? :-)

 

[QUOTE=mike88se;15342649]
Take a look at the horns on the intake runners on the CL vs the CL-S, or on something like the MDX and its lower to upper im spacer. A little bit longer on the runner makes a diff in HP vs torque. While i agree that the spacer doesnt add much as far as volume, every little bit counts (depending on what direction you are going as far as the build).. As for thermo spacers, they really arent something that you can dyno accurately but they do serve a purpose and do help in real world driving. Anyone with a live data scanner could monitor IAT's and look at the amount of timing pulled with and without.

 

I'm not hating, I'm just saying what I've looked at at what's been claimed and comparing it to what's been proven and to simple physics. The TB spacer... either I didn't make the point clear of you misunderstood it. You say nothing is removed... I said all you're doing is replacing rubber with metal assuming its a stock intake tube. So lets say you already have a metal CAI. All you're doing is extending the intake piping by 3/4 of an inch. If that adds power then why not make your CAI tubing 3" long. If 3/4" gives you more power then hey lets go bigger and better. It still isn't going to change anything. It would be like adding 3" to your nose and expecting to breathe better.
Moving on. An engine is an air pump. The pistons suck air in. Taking a couple of bends out of the intake piping is not going to make the pistons pull in more air. It just isn't.
Phenolic spacers/gaskets on the TB to reduce air intake temps? That air is moving so fast the TB isn't going to have time to heat it up. Spacers & gaskets aren't going to make any difference. The air in the combustion chambers isn't going to be any cooler and the density of the air isn't going to change.
A phenolic spacer/gaskets under the plenum might actually make a small difference. The plenum is much larger so its more likely to transfer heat and the air is more spread out there so its more likely to be heated.
As for people claiming 1-2 hp dyno proven difference you must know those claims don't have any credence. A 1-2 hp difference isn't even something an engine builder would talk about for reasons that should be obvious. You will get that kind of variance in dyno results w/o changing anything on the car.
People are free to buy whatever they want to buy in their hopes for making more power. My main point is that the people who make and sell these products are basically taking advantage of young guys with stars in their eyes. I was around back in the really bad days of ebay mods. Those kids would buy that crap and then give good feedback to the sellers saying how much improvement they felt in their cars.
I'm sorry if I missed any of your argument. Not being deliberately evasive... just sleepy and ADD
Oh I did just remember one of the points you brought up about coolant passages in the TB. That does seem totally unnecessary unless you're driving through arctic snow. Way back in the old days of carbs, the car makes ran a tubes from the exhaust manifold to the air filter housing around the carb. Basically the same principle. In theory atomized fuel will mix with warm air better than cold air. Helped the engine run better until it reached normal operating temp. I've always bypassed them on my cars because I live in a warm climate.

 

Am I posting so many threads or is this about the ad for the stock sized pulley that came with belts for an underdrive pulley? Trust me, I am doing a lot of reading. Here and on engine specific forums. I came across a thread there where engine builders laughed a couple of power-adder vendors off the forum for posting unsubstantiated claims and "fixed" dyno charts. I'll see if I can find that again. It was very interesting.
I've read enough to know you don't get big power from this engine w/o spending a ton of money and going to FI. I'm fine with that. It's a great car and even a 30hp increase would make it even more fun. I think Honda scored big with this car.

 

I did the tb coolant bypass mod on my previous car to get more power once again and it destroyed the car in the winter. Couldn't idle properly or anything. That to me has always stuck out as the dumbest mod I've done.

Could it be different on the Cl. Yes, but I'm not trying it. And it's been solid -20 here in Toronto which is ridiculous. That tb spacer Lol would give me the same minute gains the coolant bypass would.

As for the continual arguement the the air moves so fast the heat doesn't matter. Energy ie heat will transfer into matter. To what degree, is arguable. At wot prolly not a big deal, daily driving at 2000 rpm with the air passing by 3-3.5 times slow. Means it's sinking into the air that many times more.

In general tho the car runs better being not super hot. I destroyed my Ford probe motor from one time it got too hot. That has always stuck out to me as the killer of motors. So I gotta respect the heat lol and work with that biatch

 

I have had my coolant lines bypassed for 600k miles. Never once have i had a idle issue or any issue for that fact in the winter, even when its been -30f out.

 

There u go I am wrong. If I found this out two years ago I'd now do the mod. But I am fet up with my car so.

Problems in the last 4 months and i have not driven it.
Transmisson rebuilt, tps going bad, hood struts done, fan relay had the biscuit, ground wires are frayed and need replacing, battery died, master cylinder went and needed replacing. And I still need to get the rear coilovers rebuilt...

So like 4 gs yay.

No matter how much love I give my car it breaks down. But every car I have does this to me so. It's my lovely curse

 

So Mike, what are the basic legit mods we should be adding to our CL's for true horsepower gains....headers, exhaust, etc? or is better to just upgrade to 3.5 or 3.7 engine?

 

As for the tb spacer, it would make more of a difference before the TB than after the tb like you say why not just add 3/4" to the cai. There is a difference of adding volume before the TB vs after the TB. (now im not saying in any form or fashion that its going to be something to quick jump up and go do. Just stating that adding volume after the TB (ie intake manifold) can be good. But there are far to many variables and no engine design is the same nor would the results be. The main purpose of a cai is to do just that, bring in colder air. Relocating the filter and smoothing out the pipe "can" make a difference. The problem is is dynoing the car with one wont give you accurate #s of its capabilities. The car is stationary, without the volume of moving air the car/intake would have driving down the street. These J series engines are VERY efficient air pumps, BUT there are a lot of restrictions. One of which is the TB. These engines NEED air, and its proven.

Quick question, do you have a live data reading scanner or bluetooth obd2 adapter you can use with your phone? If you do look at the IAT temps they may surprise you. Even though the air is moving in that fast it can and does get heated. I have monitored mine in -5 plus degree out side temps and had IAT #s over 100 deg. Adding phenolic gaskets did change those temps quite a bit, especially in summer months. I have seen these engines pull well over 45 deg timing due to high IATs, (amongst other things like reg unleaded fuel vs 91+ )Helping keep the air/intake manifold etc.. cooler can and does help. Pulling timing like that does not help make power.

Im not defending or arguing towards manufacturers claims and ones ability to notice 1-2hp, nor 10-15 for that matter as 99% of the time you could never notice it. But if you are after every little bit of power possible or are a dyno queen they can and often do make a difference, but real world driving may produce even better numbers than just on a dyno alone, but it is something you would never be able to know/meter.

If you really want best bang for your buck on these motors, Gasket match, and port and polish as much as humanly possible Including the heads ( Intake AND exhaust side). It is something most can/could do with used parts (including heads, lower intake runners, upper im-best to get 09 tl IM here as well as a larger TB) over the space of a few weekends watching football or basketball and a few beers and make a very noticeable difference all for 200-300 bucks and your own labor.

 

Is there really this much dialect toward a thread about throttle body spacers?

Relax with the new threads dude. You're becoming the modern day JacobPocros or whatever his name was. Do everyone a favor and search a little

 

Aw c'mon man that's uncalled for. I'm here to learn about the CL and meet some CL owners, nothing more.
And besides, that question has been brought up in this thread and I gave my ideas on how big power is made. Get more air & fuel in the chambers and then get exhaust out. More compression and volume by adding bigger pistons of FI. The way the cams work on these cars I don't know if aftermarket cams exist or if they would be an improvement.
I'm not here to be a smartass and make drama. Seriously.

 

As for the tb spacer, it would make more of a difference before the TB than after the tb like you say why not just add 3/4" to the cai. There is a difference of adding volume before the TB vs after the TB. (now im not saying in any form or fashion that its going to be something to quick jump up and go do. Just stating that adding volume after the TB (ie intake manifold) can be good. But there are far to many variables and no engine design is the same nor would the results be. The main purpose of a cai is to do just that, bring in colder air. Relocating the filter and smoothing out the pipe "can" make a difference. The problem is is dynoing the car with one wont give you accurate #s of its capabilities. The car is stationary, without the volume of moving air the car/intake would have driving down the street. These J series engines are VERY efficient air pumps, BUT there are a lot of restrictions. One of which is the TB. These engines NEED air, and its proven.
First we have to understand each other. I know where a TB spacer goes and you obviously do too You say it adds volume to the IM. I say it adds length to the intake ducting.
Neither is going to make a noticeable difference. If someone wants to spend $75-$125 on a spacer and a phenolic spacer I'm okay with that. It isn't going to do anything except make your wallet lighter but other than that it isn't going to hurt either. And as someone mentioned, you van have a sensor port machined into it if you want to add a stand alone ecu.

Quick question, do you have a live data reading scanner or bluetooth obd2 adapter you can use with your phone? If you do look at the IAT temps they may surprise you. Even though the air is moving in that fast it can and does get heated. I have monitored mine in -5 plus degree out side temps and had IAT #s over 100 deg. Adding phenolic gaskets did change those temps quite a bit, especially in summer months. I have seen these engines pull well over 45 deg timing due to high IATs, (amongst other things like reg unleaded fuel vs 91+ )Helping keep the air/intake manifold etc.. cooler can and does help. Pulling timing like that does not help make power.
A spacer and gasket for the IM I can believe.

Im not defending or arguing towards manufacturers claims and ones ability to notice 1-2hp, nor 10-15 for that matter as 99% of the time you could never notice it. But if you are after every little bit of power possible or are a dyno queen they can and often do make a difference, but real world driving may produce even better numbers than just on a dyno alone, but it is something you would never be able to know/meter.
Isn't that the butt dyno fatty? We all want to believe that

If you really want best bang for your buck on these motors, Gasket match, and port and polish as much as humanly possible Including the heads ( Intake AND exhaust side). It is something most can/could do with used parts (including heads, lower intake runners, upper im-best to get 09 tl IM here as well as a larger TB) over the space of a few weekends watching football or basketball and a few beers and make a very noticeable difference all for 200-300 bucks and your own labor.
That's true. I wish I had my other computer running so I could show you some of the little things I did on my VG30et. I'll try and get those. Some of the things I did were prob on par w/ a TB spacer but I had the engine out and I wanted to do everything possible within my limited budget.
Porting and polishing heads is a skill tho... you can make things worse if you don't do it right. All I did to mine was get rid of some imperfections in the chambers and runners. But I did that using pictures from someone who knew what he was doing. I spent hours PnP the exhaust manifolds because I couldn't afford to have custom headers made. All ports were gasket matched and horned when possible.
The CLs is a great car but it isn't going to be a rocket. I'm good with that. I don't race and I don't care about street cred. I read about the Comptech Cl Type S. They must have spent $15K to $20K modding that car. I could have bought a friend's z32TT with a few simple mods for $5G and had more power to the wheels than the Comptech car had at the crank. Some cars are just easier to get power from.
This is just conversation, not criticism of the CLS. I like this car. I like it a lot. It does almost everything I want it to do and it was half the price if that z32.
I look forward to seeing what the headers, exhaust, and UR pulley adds. And I'll probably end up installing the CAI too. For the sound if nothing else No TB spacer tho