my 3.5L journey begins...
04-13-2006, 01:58 PM
#82
'08 MX5 GT 6spd.
Originally Posted by CleanCL
i'm just posting my entire progress for everyone's benefit. up to you guys, but every week or so i'll be bumping anyway with new information/pictures.
ill make sure you dont have to bump it anymore, im just as interested as anybody else and i dont want to have to go searching for it...so, this thread is now "sticky"
04-13-2006, 02:04 PM
#83
Originally Posted by typeR
i think 275-280 id doable with 250 lbft...and i think one of the keys to that is finding just the right flow through the CAT ...im not sure if its a test pipe or a hi flow but when i had a bad flex pipe in my header is when i did my 13.30 and after its repair the car lost some top end
Originally Posted by mrsteve
What mods do you have now?
I made 295whp with the supercharger which is why I don't think you're going to make more than what the supercharger is capable of.
I made 295whp with the supercharger which is why I don't think you're going to make more than what the supercharger is capable of.
04-13-2006, 02:33 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
was the 295 on the 6speed? or the auto? honestly don't remember.
6-speed dyno's around 305 with the stock boost pulley. I'd expect to see numbers around 330-335 with the high boost pulley (on stock exhaust). I believe scalbert dyno'd at 333 with the HBP on stock exhaust.
04-13-2006, 02:35 PM
#85
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I'd also think the dyno you used is suspect. 234whp with a broken actuator just logically doesn't make sense. Losing the actuator is gonna show horsepower losses around 10% at least. No way you'd make ~250whp with just the mods you listed and a functional actuator.
04-13-2006, 02:52 PM
#88
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It would be nice if when you find spare time to put together and inventory list of all the things you have needed to purchase to make this happen including part numbers and quantities.
04-13-2006, 03:42 PM
#92
Parts is hard to say, i got a good deal on the crank/rods.
Parts for my project, probably about $2,000-2,500
-this includes cams, pistons, ring set, 2 FULL gasket kits, 3 main motor mounts, valve springs, crank, rods, water pump, oil pickup.
My labor is running about $4,500 which includes a complete teardown/rebuild of motor out of car, insepction of all parts and measurements within spec, remove old motor, install new motor, port and polishing, crank/rod bearings, complete servicing of all parts includes replacing water pump and oil pickup, installing pully set, thermoblock spacers, thermostat/fan switch, and numerous other things.
that's a quick break down. i estimate it to cost around $6,000 done right.
and what, the blower is about 3800? plus install. and if it were me, i'd be buying a min of 2 gauges w/ pillar and HBP. i estimated the cost of putting a blower in to be about $5,000.
...there has got to be a reason i'm rebuilding my motor for 1,000 more, no? ;]
full breakdown of costs to come.
Parts for my project, probably about $2,000-2,500
-this includes cams, pistons, ring set, 2 FULL gasket kits, 3 main motor mounts, valve springs, crank, rods, water pump, oil pickup.
My labor is running about $4,500 which includes a complete teardown/rebuild of motor out of car, insepction of all parts and measurements within spec, remove old motor, install new motor, port and polishing, crank/rod bearings, complete servicing of all parts includes replacing water pump and oil pickup, installing pully set, thermoblock spacers, thermostat/fan switch, and numerous other things.
that's a quick break down. i estimate it to cost around $6,000 done right.
and what, the blower is about 3800? plus install. and if it were me, i'd be buying a min of 2 gauges w/ pillar and HBP. i estimated the cost of putting a blower in to be about $5,000.
...there has got to be a reason i'm rebuilding my motor for 1,000 more, no? ;]
full breakdown of costs to come.
04-13-2006, 03:49 PM
#93
thinking back, if you held out the cams, you could probably get parts for 1500:
crank, rods, gaskets, ringsets... this is all you really need for a 3.5
labor on that, would be about 3500, for me, but the shop doing it is honda specliaty =]
so id say that puts you at about 5,000
and i guess with the blower, you could probly get away with paying about 4500 installed without any extras, but i dont know if CT sells the smaller battery with the kit
crank, rods, gaskets, ringsets... this is all you really need for a 3.5
labor on that, would be about 3500, for me, but the shop doing it is honda specliaty =]
so id say that puts you at about 5,000
and i guess with the blower, you could probly get away with paying about 4500 installed without any extras, but i dont know if CT sells the smaller battery with the kit
04-13-2006, 03:51 PM
#94
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Why the need for 2 gasket sets?
Also, wouldn't it be easier to go buy a fresh block for $400-500 and have them build the motor from the ground up rather than tear down your motor? Seems like you'd save on labor and costs. You could sell your complete J32 shortblock for the same price as your paid for a new block so that cost is a wash plus I think you'd save on labor.
Am I missing something? Not trying to pick your project apart I'm just very interested.
Also, wouldn't it be easier to go buy a fresh block for $400-500 and have them build the motor from the ground up rather than tear down your motor? Seems like you'd save on labor and costs. You could sell your complete J32 shortblock for the same price as your paid for a new block so that cost is a wash plus I think you'd save on labor.
Am I missing something? Not trying to pick your project apart I'm just very interested.
04-13-2006, 03:52 PM
#95
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
thinking back, if you held out the cams, you could probably get parts for 1500:
crank, rods, gaskets, ringsets... this is all you really need for a 3.5
labor on that, would be about 3500, for me, but the shop doing it is honda specliaty =]
so id say that puts you at about 5,000
and i guess with the blower, you could probly get away with paying about 4500 installed without any extras, but i dont know if CT sells the smaller battery with the kit
crank, rods, gaskets, ringsets... this is all you really need for a 3.5
labor on that, would be about 3500, for me, but the shop doing it is honda specliaty =]
so id say that puts you at about 5,000
and i guess with the blower, you could probly get away with paying about 4500 installed without any extras, but i dont know if CT sells the smaller battery with the kit
The supercharger isn't too difficult to install yourself. It's all bolt on. And honestly for the price I'd rather have a 3.5L than a supercharger. Despite how reliable and well engineered the Comptech kit is it still gives you headaches from time to time. Whereas the 3.5L is good to go once it is installed.
04-13-2006, 03:56 PM
#96
i got a full engine for 800 (block, head, intake manifolds, throttle body, actuautors, most of which is going to be sold), and their rebuilding it out of the car. im not very good at clarifying when i type things. so yes, i'm having a full shortblock built. i sort of tried to say that when i broke down the labor cost, but when i say their gonna tear it down, i mean tear it down, and replace every single gasket, o-ring, bearing....
the gasket kits literally come with everything. reason for 2, you need a front and a rear. those kits ALSO include head gaskets which is huge.
i welcome all questions, and for the above post is the exact reason i am going this route, nothing like popping your hood, and no one is the wiser. plus its all honda reliability, just like you said. i've had a lot of forced induction experience, and i know how that goes.
the gasket kits literally come with everything. reason for 2, you need a front and a rear. those kits ALSO include head gaskets which is huge.
i welcome all questions, and for the above post is the exact reason i am going this route, nothing like popping your hood, and no one is the wiser. plus its all honda reliability, just like you said. i've had a lot of forced induction experience, and i know how that goes.
04-13-2006, 04:00 PM
#99
i see what you mean, but the shortblock from the dealer. the cost of a bare block vs a junkyard full engine, the junkyard motor is more cost effective, and since it will be tore down, i'm not worried about it, as long as the block is within spec and nothing happened to the cylinder walls.
OR you could buy a full odyssey/mdx shortblock from honda, but you need to remember, if you want to use the cams, you need to press off the pistons anyway, so youd have to pull the rods off the crank, and i think you dont HAVE to do that, but i think thats the right way as to not mess anything up.
ah, theres a lot of options for the 3.5.
OR you could buy a full odyssey/mdx shortblock from honda, but you need to remember, if you want to use the cams, you need to press off the pistons anyway, so youd have to pull the rods off the crank, and i think you dont HAVE to do that, but i think thats the right way as to not mess anything up.
ah, theres a lot of options for the 3.5.
04-13-2006, 04:05 PM
#101
downtime, id say more like a week, i'm not just dropping in a shortblock. theres a few minor things that will be done, but require more than a day... itll probly be more like 5 days. which i have no problem with, i want it all to be done right.
04-13-2006, 04:13 PM
#102
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Although for $6-7,000 you could have a turbo set up like the turbo guys are running make make 100+whp more than the 3.5L will do. hrrrrrmmm
I suppose it's all personal preference.
I suppose it's all personal preference.
04-13-2006, 05:02 PM
#106
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Yes someone in Cali did however they are selling the car.
I see no reason to do a 3.5L and boost it. It would be foolish to use the 11.0:1 pistons in a turbo set up so your other options would be Type-S pistons, or even lower compression pistons. However, then you'd loose horsepower with lower compression pistons but be able to run a little more boost but probably make about the same amount of power.
500hp is about the limit of this motor and it's internals (as allmotor has recently discovered) The addition of 300cc of displacement alone doesn't add THAT much power in itself so if you're going turbo I wouldn't waste too much time with the 3.5L unless you are going all out with more of a race set up where you plan on running serious power and serious boost. (i.e., what ThinJim has in the works).
I see no reason to do a 3.5L and boost it. It would be foolish to use the 11.0:1 pistons in a turbo set up so your other options would be Type-S pistons, or even lower compression pistons. However, then you'd loose horsepower with lower compression pistons but be able to run a little more boost but probably make about the same amount of power.
500hp is about the limit of this motor and it's internals (as allmotor has recently discovered) The addition of 300cc of displacement alone doesn't add THAT much power in itself so if you're going turbo I wouldn't waste too much time with the 3.5L unless you are going all out with more of a race set up where you plan on running serious power and serious boost. (i.e., what ThinJim has in the works).
04-13-2006, 09:14 PM
#108
Blown is Best
Originally Posted by ThinJim
Here's where it all began, look down to post #16. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178570 BTW, What have you been up to? any progress on your 3.5?
04-14-2006, 09:49 AM
#109
Senior Moderator
since you're doin this much...check these three ideas out ..a full dual exhaust like the stillen for the Z and...dry sump oil and electric water pump
04-14-2006, 10:25 AM
#110
i was thinking a full dual exhaust with an X pipe, but there just isn't enough room. we have 1 main shaft in the center, and it isn't really big enough, the pipes would literally be running along side each other. so you would be running the pipes under the undercarriage, and i bottom out enough, don't need to anymore. ;]
dry sump oil... didn't invest any time in, i'll take a look.
electric water pump crossed my mind but i never looked into it thoroughly.
dry sump oil... didn't invest any time in, i'll take a look.
electric water pump crossed my mind but i never looked into it thoroughly.
04-14-2006, 01:40 PM
#111
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Did you check with the shop about not having to bore your sleeves due to new piston/ring combo? If I'm not mistaken, you're gonna have to do it to match even if it's not an OB.
04-14-2006, 05:36 PM
#112
i'm pretty sure the standard RL pistons fit right in. there are pictures, i believe the project was one on an accord, where he had the RL pistons in the CL-S block. although i can't be 100% sure about this, will find out soon enough.
04-15-2006, 08:41 AM
#113
Originally Posted by CleanCL
i'm pretty sure the standard RL pistons fit right in. there are pictures, i believe the project was one on an accord, where he had the RL pistons in the CL-S block. although i can't be 100% sure about this, will find out soon enough.
04-15-2006, 08:08 PM
#114
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Originally Posted by ThinJim
it's the same bore, but if you use a used block with new rl pistons, it may be a tad on the loose side. I'd check that out closely as this is one very important step.
05-02-2006, 02:44 PM
#118
thats almost identical to the setup i had in mind...
comptech downpipe to hi-flow cat to Y-Pipe for dual pipe split, into an X pipe and then to the mufflers.
i'm not entirely sure how effective it would be since no one has done it and i never plan on going FI. it would have to be something like 1.25" piping after the split, bc 1.5 or 2 i think would destroy any low end torque.
edit, with the hi-flo cat, y, and x pipe, no resonators are needed, it would def be loud, but i think it would sound great. but find me an X and Y pipe, with 1.25-1.5 inlets/outlets
comptech downpipe to hi-flow cat to Y-Pipe for dual pipe split, into an X pipe and then to the mufflers.
i'm not entirely sure how effective it would be since no one has done it and i never plan on going FI. it would have to be something like 1.25" piping after the split, bc 1.5 or 2 i think would destroy any low end torque.
edit, with the hi-flo cat, y, and x pipe, no resonators are needed, it would def be loud, but i think it would sound great. but find me an X and Y pipe, with 1.25-1.5 inlets/outlets