Obviously harder than you think. !!!!!!

And that launch, if it's so easy why aren't all the test times all the same?????

Give me a break!!!!!

When you've raced as much and long as I have come back and talk to me. Over 20yrs just in case your wondering.

RUF

 

I used to race my 93 cobra......so its not like I don't have a clue!!!!

 

Who said anything about smoking???

I have a TTRT set up.

That's Time Tested Race Techniques for you rookies out there.

And I've seen plenty of rookies out there. They get themselve a hot car. Read about how fast it is, and then go out and . . . get beat.

Besides, don't believe everything you read.

Bottom-line is that you can have all the car you want, but you can still be beat by a slower car. Happens all the time. Any true DRAG RACERS know what I'm talking about. Mind you not a bunch of street racers.

Remember I said I beat those cars and not that my TLS is faster. There's a HUGE difference in the two.

So believe what you want and complain all night long but the facts is the facts. RUFio took 'em.

 

I don't know what a torque converter does so I'm not saying he didn't break into the 13's. If it's anything like a BMW 3.15 differential for a 540i then his time is def. believeable to me.

RUF has a good point, he never stated his TLS was "faster" than the cars mentioned, he said he beat them...I guess there is a difference, but all you're pointing out is the fact that you raced bad drivers isn't it?

 

 

Looks like we have a Veteran gray haired and all...

 

 

3500lb car with less than 300hp running a 13.8? Hmmm, without a serious change to the final drive? I don't buy it.

 

factory cl-s=260hp
header+30hp
cai+5-8hp
exhaust+1-3hp
pulley+1-2hp

and there are other mods avaiable as well...

do some math will ya:sqntfawk:

btw...if a cl-s has some after market rims..its under 3500ib..with navi too

 

Well, what you are doing is what is called "ricer math"...taking advertised factory crank horsepower numbers and adding it to aftermarket manufacturer's claims.

 

Exactly, if a header is good for 30hp then the Honda engineers aren't as good as I thought they were. There is no way they left 30hp in the exhaust system. Wait, maybe your right, maybe some reject at an import shop in L.A. knows more than they do.

Most tests of the S have it at just under 15 seconds in the quarter. Guys here with some mods do mid to low 14's. Now all of a sudden, someone breaks 13.9!!! Wow, such wizardy.

By the way, you forget the K&N filter which is good for another 5hp.

 

By the way, as my car is OBD 1, the chip actually does make a difference. And I have seen dynos that show 284hp+ to the rear wheels.

Most guys who have added exhaust systems, K&N's etc. to the M5 have not realized significant gains on the dyno. Usually, less than 5hp to the wheels. Hardly worth the cost. With a CL-S, you will have a computer that constantly adjusts itself for optimal performance and already have a very high output engine. This means the Honda engineers already did most of the tuning and if there is anything left it will be minimal and you will likely have some kind of a tradeoff. You may get a bit better throttle response or more high rpm power but lose something down low.

 

30 hp? They sure did. Probably a cost issue. Try a search.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...+comptech+dyno

http://www.comptechusa.com/images/dyno/2000CLSplot.pdf

I guess the people at Comptech are a bunch of rejects.

SleeperCL also listed a torque converter. Makes a big difference.
Also, some people run a 14.8 stock. Is one second hard to believe? But, then again, you know more about the CLS than we do.

Looking at you sig, if a tuned ECU gives an M5 +20 HP?, the illustrious BMW engineers aren't any better than Honda's.

 

Looks more like a drawing than a dyno graph to me, and I calculate it as a 24 hp increase anyways. Also, was this car bone stock before the headers were added?

Also, are all these runs in question SAE Corrected?

 

The first attempt was Mike's dyno. Since photopoint has died, it is hard to find any good dyno runs. Not everyone gets the same gain from headers anyway.

TheModMole runs in the 13s with similar mods as SleeperCL.

I don't know if anyone has posted an SAE corrected plot. You don't run a dyno plot at the track. You run a car. The only way to believe someone's claim is to witness their car at the track.

But, I don't find 13.9 a baseless claim. (I'm not saying that you do, but that was my point for posting.)

 

I know that. You're the one who posted the "dyno graphs".

 

The only tuning the honda engineers really did to the distinguish the Type-S from the premium is to add an actuator to broaden the torque. Smoothed out the exhaust a little ( if you can live with some noise, there is still a lot of power in the exhuast)...raised compression and added a "mild" street cam, maybe advanced the timing. That can easily account for the additional 35 hp at the crank.

The headers add 30whp at 6800rpms...which helps to keep the power even..not to mention extending the torque band. Add some light wheels....good track conditions and tires....CAI, and an exhaust....you are knocking on door for 13s.

 

okeydoke

 

Kids. As soon as they can read a car magazine they are suddenly experts.

 

 

Waahoo!!!

Make it 10 to zip, well almost.

On the way back from a meeting I rushing off to another meeting. On a 3 lane road I notice a nice red M3 (pre 02 model) manual sitting there. I think "Oh Ya" Time to see what the old man can do, but I'm not sure the guy next to me notices me in my "slow" TLS.

As soon as the light changes he answers that question as he jusmps out there squealing the tires. I nail mine, but he is already 1 1/2 car lengths out there. He stays ahead of me up to 80 and we have to stop for another light.

Ah, no one in front of us. Clear sailing for a good 1/8 mile or more.

This time I look over and he's a bit smug. This time I know he's a racer and I'm getting set. With VSA off, and the radio as I like to focus on the task at hand. I power brake to 2300RPM and I hear him rev his car up and when the light changes nothing but squealing tires. I hook up pretty quick and have him off the line by a couple of feet. I'm ever so slowly pulling him and in 2nd I'm 1/2 car lenght ahead. I'm pulling him a bit stronger, but not a lot in 2nd. By time we get to 95MPH I've got over a car length on him.

Again, a light approaches and we have to slow down. At this point he won't even look at me and makes an abrupt left turn and I a right.

What a rush!

I wonder if a 330ci can take an older M3?

Ya baby! RUF 10 - BMWs 0 Bring me the gold!

 

Well, the main reason a chip will get you a gain in my car is that the fuel maps don't constantly adjust themselves like more modern ecu's. Therefore, BMW engineers had to make compromises. For someone who wants more performance, they can choose their own compromises. So, advance the timing a little and add a bit of fuel and you realize gains.

Maybe it was the same with Honda but usually the engineers don't leave a whole lot in a high output engine. Now, if you add cams, etc. that is different.

Don't get me wrong, I like the S and really believe Honda and BMW are much closer in philosophy then most people think (no turbos, high revs, F1). Just take everything with a grain of salt and be skeptical about claims by aftermarket companies. Better to spend $200 on a driving school than a part that gains you 2 hp at the wheels. A full second gain in the quarter mile is HUGE with minimal modifications on an NA engine.

On a real racetrack -- you know those ones with corners -- engine mods make little difference.

 

Hey, no argument that there is a bigger performance difference between a TLS and BMW on the road courses.

That said, I still take 2 exceptions to the comment above.

1- A drag strip is most certainly defined as a race track.
2- No, high output cars are not necessarily tuned to their maximum potential. Car manufactures are always playing a balancing game between all out performance, market demands, costs, overall driveability and dependability of other components effected by the increased performance.

Regarding number 2, that is why there are so many "tuners" out their.

SLP - GM
Comtech - Honda, Acura, etc.
SVO - Ford
Saleen - Ford
Shelby - Ford/Dodge
Yenko - (old Chevys)
Hurst - (mostly Olds)
Lingenfelter - (mostly GM)
AMG - MB

Even BMW has a factory tuner outlet.

and the list goes on . . .

RUF, yes RUF was a Porche tuner. Sigh, the '87 Yellow Bird. 211MPH.

 

Ruf, you had an 87 Ruf 911? Can I assume this is where your name is derived from?

The older M3's and current 330's are pretty close in performance off the line. The M3 has an advantage once moving over the 330.

 

A CL or TL, even the TYPE S, is not a race car.....I don't know why some guys want 12sec. CLs. If you wanted that, buy a camaro or mustang. They are cheaper and easy to build up. Of course, you will sacrafice comfort, reliability, and value, but a CL IS NOT A FRIGGIN RACE CAR. Its a great all around car with decent speed, but as I've said over 100X, there is no way it will beat some of the cars that some of you say you've beat!

 

Wait a minute, Ruf u beat an M3 ANY YEAR M3!?!? Is this correct?

I agree with the ricer math, you can add all that stuff have a power sucking tranny and do WORSE times.....

They got 0% financing on Trans Ams for some of ya'll...

 

LOL!

Yes Ruf beats M3's and only the manual variety

I guess MT, R&T, C&D, and all those other car mags should take a note on how to launch a FWD Acura and they should be able to shave about 1/2 second off 1/4 mile

When I spoke to Dinan, they stated that MT borrowed a Dinan fitted M3 and ran 0-60 like 15 times. Beat the hell out of it, ie power braking, rev the hell out the engine, etc. and they take the best time and publish it.

 

I'm surprised someone with your experience and expertise would participate in stop light racing.

Thanks for the COOL stories dude!

 

Dinan is not a factory tuner. Some dealers have sold their cars but the warranty is supported by Dinan, not BMW. If you have some kind of engine problem, the dealer will tell you to go see your Dinan rep. Also, AMG was a totally independent company of Mercedes in the beginning and still may be. //M stands for the Motorsport division at BMW and is simply their racing/performance program (or was, now more like //Marketing).

I have driven both the E36 M3 and 330ci with sport package. I think the 330ci has a great chassis, very stiff and responsive. However, the cars feel totally different. The M3 feels much more willing to go where you want it. I would assume a lot of this is just a result of weight but the M3 felt so much more nimble and precise.

 

BTW Ruf also says he can beat a GS 400, we are not that fast....:sqnteek:

 

Guess hes just pulling out every car he can think of for Whoppin' Stories.... :wackit:

 

how are we suppose to lauch?

n MT using a dinan Bimmer, that's drivin a comptech CL-s/TL-s and posting times, even though it's only header n exhast, i still bet it would lower the times...

 

Ask Ruf how you're suppose to launch since he seems to be the only one that beats just about every car he races.

Yes, header and exhaust will lower your time but not that much. Headers may shave 3-4/10 IMO tops. Exhaust...waste of money just asthetics. CAI is IMO best bang for buck.

 

I was guessing so because the races I've had with both were fairly similar in results. The M3s were closer races than the 330s I race, but by 1/2 - 3/4 car lengths at most.

RUF

 

Yes, the shame of someone my age still doing this sort of thing. I have to tell you guys, if you got it in your blood, it will be with you always. I've talked to guys in their 60s and they say the same thing. They still love the thrill of a good race.

That said, I am much more cautious about where I do it. I've turned down opportunities becuase the timing wasn't good. Things like traffic conditions, roads, side streets etc. Too risky. So I did learn that much over time.

RUF

 

Ah, the weeping and naching of teeth.

No worries, some people never believe anything.

RUF

 

Let's see, ah 1sicklex, the guy who puts words into other peoples stories and thinks that no TLS no matter how heavily modified could ever beat a totally stock GS400. LOL

Nope, never said any year M3. Never come up against the awsome 2002 M3 . . and I don't epect to beat one either. Not that it's impossible mind you. The driver could be a complete joke at driving and then it might be remotely possible.

RUF

 

Comment1: Fine, but that wasn't my point. The point was that there are outfits, what ever they call themselves, that specialize in extracting more performance out of cars. So the point was if these "so called performance factory cars" are already delivering their maximum potential, why are these folks in that business. And BTW, they do get more out of the cars so that is the point.

Comments 2: Thanks for the insight. I was really curious about the 2.

RUF

 

Again, he reswizzles someones comments. Ah, but he wouldn't be1sicklex if he didn't.

Just for the record, I challenged your statement that a GS400 would win everytime, whether the TLS or CLS was stock or moded.

I took expection to both. Properly mod'ed ones clearly could, and a stock one could based on certain race condition variables. Such as the GS400 driver not getting a good launch, poorly maintained, bad-apple, etc.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed win every time. Now the odds may be heavily against it, but something could still happen.

That said, I guess since I've beaten all those 3series bimmers, I can say that I'm a cinch to win the next one so why bother? We'll I do it because I want to see if I can take him and his ride. He might be better than the last.

As for the GS400, still haven't encountered one in a race situation. See 'em, but mostly 'status' drivers. And don't worry, I promise to post the results when it finally happens, even if I lose.

And yes, even the mighty (j/k) RUF has lost some races already, but not to any 3series or Lexus . . . so far that is.

Losses include: SS Camaro; Roush Mustang, some Camaro with 500HP listed on his script, Trans Am, a couple of Vets. So yes, I have been beat. I am no longer worthy, please forgive me.

RUF

 

I'm honored . . . j/k.

Seriously, what works for me is.

Turn off all accessories. (of course if its dark ya gotta keep the lights on) radio, a/c, fan, etc. I like it quiet, because it's a serious thing and I don't like unexpected distractions and want to hear everything I can from the engine and such. Just in case something starts to go wrong I can react quicker.

Next. VSA off, unless the road is a fairly slick black top and then the VSA tends to help out.

Now listen up, this is where the race is won or lost with cars that are barely quicker than ours.

You want to get the best holeshot you can off of the line. Since there are no xmas trees in street racing you have to find another means of timing your launch. I usually use the cross street light to anticipate the changing light.

Sorry, gotta run will come back to finish later.

RUF