purplehaze

TONS OF wheelspin on my stock 6 spd....Its a point where its hampering my shifting ability,,
I need some advice...

bullaculla

yeah, i had the same problem too! i posted some times earlier. next time i will try to just launch the car with out revving it before i launch. r/t will be bad but it dosent matter! maybe try second, i was too determined to get a good launch from first! good luck, post your times!

Wires

Ditch the shitty Michelins for better rubber. I found with the stock 6 speed I'd get 3+ seconds of wheel spin between 1st and 2nd gear, and then less than a second of wheelspin between 2nd and 3rd gear. Sounds cool, but the car is too heavy with only 260 HP, so that's kind of pathetic.

Last week I ditched the Michelins for Dunlop SP Sport 5000's (in OEM 215 50R17 size). Amazing tires! On dry pavement, I can only get a chirp between 1st and 2nd now. Pump up the air pressure, and it handles like it's on rails. The other day we had a cloud burst, so I went for a cruise to see what she was like. It gripped wet roads like no tomorrow. Hydroplaning was almost non-existent.

Dunlop claims they're good for light snow/slush, so I'm really curious how they'll perform, because up to know, I'm finding it hard not to spend time behind the wheel putting the car through the paces!

Simpleman

Isn't LSD supposed to remedy that?

Wires

The problem with LSD is that on a FWD vehicle, they can't lock both wheels up (otherwise you can't steer). So the LSD transfers power from the wheel that's slipping to the wheel that's not.

On a RWD vehicle, it wouldn't be a problem, since they just lock the rear wheels together.

Under hard acceleration (with the Michelins) you could feel it jitter from side to side as the LSD transfered power back and forth. Better than no LSD, but not the same as a locker in a RWD vehicle.

typeR

the beauty behind a helical gear limited slip differential is it can power both front wheels durring straight line acceleration and provide variing power during hard cornering

codehead

OK, I haven't looked into how the CL LSD works, but I find fault with your "can't"s. Why couldn't you steer as you described? Yes I understand you'd be dragging one tire, but that's true of locking the rear too. In a turn, the outside wheels travel further than the inside--physics doesn't care if they are in the front or rear.

I don't want to say much till I've looked at it more, but I don't think the LSD works by shuttling the power back and forth, especially in a straight line. When I wind it up and let it go, I get mad wheel hop, yeah, but I never get anything I can attribute to your description of how the LSD works. I would expect it to make the steering wheel jerk left and right it it worked like that.

frederix

You can't just dump the clutch when you launch the 6spd, at least not with the stock tires. If you rev it up to 3-4k rpm and feather the clutch it launches pretty well. I have headers and stock tires and i almost never get it to chirp into 3rd gear and I only get about 1 second of wheelspin from 1st to 2nd. I think the stiff Koni shocks reduce the wheelspin quite a bit.

bullaculla

I need to practice more! I have nitto 555's and i still get lots of wheel spin! but my car is stock and i still get the chirp to third! I was shifting right b4 redline. any help would be nice!

typeR

555R 245/45

Wires

With a locker, it locks both wheels together (the true LSD). So when you hammer on it, both wheels spin, and it usually kicks the ass end out, but you can compensate for it (since it's RWD) by steering. We had a 2000 Mustang GT before the Acura, and that's what it had. Personally, I find it a lot of fun.

If the LSD in the 6 speed did lock both wheels together, then steering would be almost impossible (at high RPM and speed). If it was rigid at low RPM's, then you'd just drag the outside tire. Keep in mind that you're steering is just a two 3"x6" patches of rubber on the pavement -- the tire footprint). Ever driven the CL in snow? Crank on the gas and turn the wheel (without the LSD even), and watch her NOT turn! Don't get me wrong, the LSD is waaayyy better than nothing, but it would be nice to wave a RWD CL with a locker differential.

Most of my launches have been pretty mild at the start (so I never dumped it to make it hop), but I get the shuttle effect.

codehead

It that really a "true LSD"? The LS stands for Limited Slip, and there's not much that's limited if you're gonna lock 'em. Just wondering.

Sure, I realize that--in the original post you said you wouldn't be able to turn; granted, it would be a bitch at speed, but I was just disagreeing with the finality of the statement.

But the point is moot, since the CL LSD doesn't work that way. Anyone have a link to info on how it works? The most descriptive thing I've seen from Acura is:

"CL Type-S models with the 6-speed manual transmission... employ a special torque-sensitive, helical limited-slip differential. Under hard cornering, this differential transfers torque to the outside front wheel, where there's typically more traction."

That statement, diffinitive or not, is pretty clear about where the power goes and under what circumstances.

Are you sure that's the LSD transferring back and forth? (Or maybe just the lack of VSA, which otherwise might calm thing down, or some other difference between the auto and MT?) I'm just wondering, not accusing you of being wrong or anything. Yeah, I can get my 6MT front end to dance with hard acceleration, but I don't know if that's because the LSD is tranferring power back and forth. For one thing, I'd expect that to make my steering wheel jerk a bit, and it doesn't.

I've had a couple of other FWD cars as well as RWD cars (at least one with a LSD), and the CL-S 6MT defintely it an improvement for power in the corners over the other FWDs. What I'm questioning of your comments is strictly the part about front tire jitter in straight-ahead acceleration being due to the LSD. Maybe you're right and it is, but I'm not so sure--it seems to me that it might not be; but I need to more info on how it works, so I'm still open for convincing.

Well, I dug up a little more from the web so I'll close with these:

Edmunds: 'Reeling in all that power is a helical limited-slip differential that is essentially the latest version of Honda's Automatic Torque Transfer System, or ATTS, that was first seen on the 1997 Prelude Type SH. Although ATTS was never the sales and marketing hit Honda had hoped for (as seen by the low sales numbers and eventual termination of the Prelude model), anyone who experienced this subtle technology on a twisty road, or under racetrack conditions, quickly came to appreciate Honda's high-tech efforts. It works by sensing and reducing wheel slip of the inside tire while simultaneously sending additional torque to the outside tire during cornering maneuvers. This allows the driver to accelerate sooner when exiting a turn, and the "pulling" effect of applying additional torque to the outside front tire can almost make you forget which wheels are propelling the CL Type-S. In other words, the car feels strangely similar to a certain rear-wheel-drive sport coupe known for its "driving passion."'

Car and Driver: 'This brings us to the other element that puts more butch in the balance sheet—a brand-new helical limited-slip differential. Similar in concept to the Torsen and Quaife limited-slip diffs, the new Acura system is mechanical, using gears to apportion torque and thus reduce wheelspin. A limited-slip diff evens out power delivery in any car, but it's particularly helpful in front-drivers. Here's why: Since the front tires serve dual roles—steering and power transfer—it doesn't take much for the inside front to overcome adhesion and start spinning, particularly during the pronounced weight transfer that goes with hard cornering.

Wheelspin is bad juju. It reduces cornering speed, magnifies understeer, and emasculates corner exit speeds. It adds endless seconds to racetrack lap times, and undue drama to back-road recreation.

The CL's new limited slip cures this affliction like a mechanical miracle drug. During a day of preview driving in the mountains that form the west wall of California's Silicon Valley, we were thoroughly impressed with the way the CL dealt with abrupt transitions, decreasing-radius turns, and all the other little surprises that make high-country back roads so entertaining.'

bullaculla

thanks for the post codehead! I read that b4 too, but it didn't mean anything then. BTW you still own the legend?

codehead

Hey, you're welcome--wish I had some new info or some real live drawing of the mechanics...

Yeah, still have the Legend. The kid turned 15 a couple days ago, thinking about whether I should keep it for him... those things are built like tanks.

bullaculla

I wish i had a car like that when i was 15! I had a '91 coupe that i traded in for the 3.0 CL.
As for my launches, its getting better, but i won't know for sure untill i get on the track and break my 15.0 sec limit!!!
we are going tomorrow! wish me luck!

FDao

You mean Friday, right ?

bullaculla

Oh! uh yeah! uh, what day is it today?

FDao

I know you're just itching to get below 15.0!

typeR

typeR

http://www.quaifeusa.com/

find all the info you want on the HLSD here