Just port and polished my Type S TB and Intake Mani
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and all because i dont have as many posts as you or im not a moderator does not make me stupid or lack automotive knowledge
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
platE ... you know what i meant. (notice how i used was instead of is .. clearly a type of plates meant as platE. Other wise if it was plural i would have used WERE)
man wtf are you giving me shit for man, seriouslly everything was done properly with all the proper equipment. I sat and watched him through the entire process. And by shimmed i meant that the blade/plate width was reduced.
Is it just that you have your hopes up about this mod taking a shit or something?
Im not trying to be a dick but thats how you are coming off. Ive got respect for you on the boards but you are comin off a bit daft and asinine.
man wtf are you giving me shit for man, seriouslly everything was done properly with all the proper equipment. I sat and watched him through the entire process. And by shimmed i meant that the blade/plate width was reduced.
Is it just that you have your hopes up about this mod taking a shit or something?
Im not trying to be a dick but thats how you are coming off. Ive got respect for you on the boards but you are comin off a bit daft and asinine.
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Anyway, I am coming across as a dick, even though I am responding to a thread that makes claims about something which I and another have already tested?? And when I say tested, I mean on a dyno and not through enthusiasm. Some of what was said didn't make sense. I never claimed you were lying or he didn't do good work. But the claims just didn't add up.
So let’s recap:
You stated that the TB plate was shimmed and confirmed this above. However, that makes no sense. If you reduced the size of the throttle plate you would need to decrease the bore. Otherwise you would have a bad leak and your idle would be much higher.
No pictures were taken of the injector base which is half the runner length and seemed to be alluding that it was done.
How long did this take?? I know what it should take and based on the prices quoted, it sounds about right if not including tear down and rebuild.
You claimed to be making more power but have no proof of it. Nor do you have any before runs to qualify the final results. You are going by feel which has been proven to be notoriously incorrect in the past.
Calm down and discuss the matter, don't fly off the handle due to questioning.
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
and all because i dont have as many posts as you or im not a moderator does not make me stupid or lack automotive knowledge
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And to clarify my position, I think it is a good modification (outside of the way the TB changes are being explained). The gains are just being optimistically proclaimed and not until other serious work is performed that the full benefits would be realized.
What I don't want to see is others beleiving that this will give them great gains and sending money to another.
What I don't want to see is others beleiving that this will give them great gains and sending money to another.
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im not flying of the handle im just getting agrevated that you questioning how this was done and how MY car feels, which your right. Has the potential to feel different or indifferent depending on whats what and whos who. You are just coming off very dense.
I have documented track time and will be going back to the track this Friday due to similar conditions and as well as the dyno, I will provide track times as well.
We all know what the stock TL type s is capable of laying down to the wheels, I know it wont be the same because every car is different. But we can use comparable results to use against the upcoming dyno that I will be having.
This whole process took an entire day, well three quarters of a day to tear down, port and polish then rebuild. The tear down and rebuild only took approximately 25 minutes to take apart and 15 to reinstall.
And the throttle body issue, the idle is sitting right at where it normally does. There is absolutely no leak. We even did the water test last night as well (Throttle body face down, pour 1/2 cup of water in, see if anything poors out the bottom) Nothing came out of the bottom.
The only noticeable thing is that when the car is cold, and it hasnt warmed up yet, there is a bit of resonance, but that is to be expected.
After all was said and done, the parts were reinstalled and now I await the dyno/tuning and track
I have documented track time and will be going back to the track this Friday due to similar conditions and as well as the dyno, I will provide track times as well.
We all know what the stock TL type s is capable of laying down to the wheels, I know it wont be the same because every car is different. But we can use comparable results to use against the upcoming dyno that I will be having.
This whole process took an entire day, well three quarters of a day to tear down, port and polish then rebuild. The tear down and rebuild only took approximately 25 minutes to take apart and 15 to reinstall.
And the throttle body issue, the idle is sitting right at where it normally does. There is absolutely no leak. We even did the water test last night as well (Throttle body face down, pour 1/2 cup of water in, see if anything poors out the bottom) Nothing came out of the bottom.
The only noticeable thing is that when the car is cold, and it hasnt warmed up yet, there is a bit of resonance, but that is to be expected.
After all was said and done, the parts were reinstalled and now I await the dyno/tuning and track
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I agree with you. I dont want to see people waste money on a modification not worthy of it.
But who am I to say go buy it because it WILL give you gains
on the other side of the fence
Who are you to say dont but this because it WONT give you gains
We both have equally debateable arguments but netiher of us have valid ones until all has been tested AND tuned
I as well never stated that this WILL give 15-25hp. I said it feels like it. Feels like and actual hp are different things as we've come to understand, but as stated before we will see
But who am I to say go buy it because it WILL give you gains
on the other side of the fence
Who are you to say dont but this because it WONT give you gains
We both have equally debateable arguments but netiher of us have valid ones until all has been tested AND tuned
I as well never stated that this WILL give 15-25hp. I said it feels like it. Feels like and actual hp are different things as we've come to understand, but as stated before we will see
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
im not flying of the handle im just getting agrevated that you questioning how this was done and how MY car feels, which your right. Has the potential to feel different or indifferent depending on whats what and whos who. You are just coming off very dense.
And the throttle body issue, the idle is sitting right at where it normally does. There is absolutely no leak. We even did the water test last night as well (Throttle body face down, pour 1/2 cup of water in, see if anything poors out the bottom) Nothing came out of the bottom.
And the throttle body issue, the idle is sitting right at where it normally does. There is absolutely no leak. We even did the water test last night as well (Throttle body face down, pour 1/2 cup of water in, see if anything poors out the bottom) Nothing came out of the bottom.
About the TB, it sounds like you have misrepresented what was done. If you decreased the throttle plate diameter then that water test would have failed. You would end up with a gap; especially if the bore was increased.
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
but netiher of us have valid ones until all has been tested AND tuned
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and it still catches fine with the bored out internals of the TB. i can video tape it for you when i take it back off to do the head
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
we decreased the width not diameter
If so, why not just have the TB bored and a new plate added?? The main blocking portion of the TB is the pivot shaft as long as the plate is horizontal when opened.
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exactly you have yours and ill have mine
i have other mods that i will be testing as well with the port and polish on the dyno. but thats after i get a baseline run with it. It is up in the air until then.
Additionally theres a lot of different factors that can be accounted for when a decrease of performance is encountered, ie. temperatures, faulty work, environmental conditions, vacuum leak, etc.
Not saying these are prevailant but they can definately alter ones per formance
i have other mods that i will be testing as well with the port and polish on the dyno. but thats after i get a baseline run with it. It is up in the air until then.
Additionally theres a lot of different factors that can be accounted for when a decrease of performance is encountered, ie. temperatures, faulty work, environmental conditions, vacuum leak, etc.
Not saying these are prevailant but they can definately alter ones per formance
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
and it still catches fine with the bored out internals of the TB. i can video tape it for you when i take it back off to do the head
What I am suggesting is that the TB be bored, increasing the diameter everywhere which would nessecitate a new plate.
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yep when its a circle the width is the thickness ![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
How about we settle on fair ground, and just come to the understanding that we will see when the numbers come back ?
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
How about we settle on fair ground, and just come to the understanding that we will see when the numbers come back ?
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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the thing is that there was still enough material were the TB caught to remove some of it and still allow it to catch where it does
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
Additionally theres a lot of different factors that can be accounted for when a decrease of performance is encountered, ie. temperatures, faulty work, environmental conditions, vacuum leak, etc.
Not saying these are prevailant but they can definately alter ones per formance
Not saying these are prevailant but they can definately alter ones per formance
The lost power statements were incorrect; they were a result of head work, not manifold work.
As for the quality, it took me three days to complete the work:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81192
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81430
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81626
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
the thing is that there was still enough material were the TB caught to remove some of it and still allow it to catch where it does
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i got a special intro price
on the entire package. so this is how it sits now. More adjustments will be made to the port and polish as necessary.
We are going to dyno with what we have now and then see what else can be done with the manifold and TB if anything (we didnt think so)
but I understand what your saying. I mean I can always order a larger plate, but if it works, it works you know? No leaking and it still catches so i cant complain
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
We are going to dyno with what we have now and then see what else can be done with the manifold and TB if anything (we didnt think so)
but I understand what your saying. I mean I can always order a larger plate, but if it works, it works you know? No leaking and it still catches so i cant complain
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
i got a special intro price ![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
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i see you had the same problem with the gasket in between the tb and mani lol that thing was a bit ch and then we had to clean it .. what a PITA lol
we ended up using a silicon gel as a gasket
we ended up using a silicon gel as a gasket
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
i see you had the same problem with the gasket in between the tb and mani lol that thing was a bit ch and then we had to clean it .. what a PITA lol
we ended up using a silicon gel as a gasket
we ended up using a silicon gel as a gasket
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
btw did they come out with cams that provide more power for our tl type s yet ?
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whoa! this got interesting fast.....
Scalbert, you can blame me for already getting Hurley worked up some.
I think he means well, but could learn a great deal from your past work. But that is entirely up to him ofcourse.
(background) One should know that Scalbert has tested, tried, developed, and installed many more modifications to the J32a engine than you can shake a cam at. Most members here would agree that his experience over past 4 years has revealed so many things.
that is all. Be kind to one another.
Scalbert, you can blame me for already getting Hurley worked up some.
I think he means well, but could learn a great deal from your past work. But that is entirely up to him ofcourse.
(background) One should know that Scalbert has tested, tried, developed, and installed many more modifications to the J32a engine than you can shake a cam at. Most members here would agree that his experience over past 4 years has revealed so many things.
that is all. Be kind to one another.
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![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Im going to do some reasearch on the whole cam thing. Becuase if we could get a nice set of cams that actaully produe more then stock, wed be in for a wild ride
#68
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For the money you'd spend on a full set of cams it would probably be halfway towards a SC.
I'm interested in the dyno & track improvements (if any). Not that I'd ever do it to my car, but its nice to see people still tinkering & experimenting with the J32.
I'm interested in the dyno & track improvements (if any). Not that I'd ever do it to my car, but its nice to see people still tinkering & experimenting with the J32.
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#69
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Originally Posted by Hurleysurf24
we decreased the width not diameter
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but want share my opinion, briefly. First, no aftermarket cams, but search away and hope I missed a manufacturer.
When it comes to porting/polishing; to get the most, an experienced tech with a flow machine should be used. On honda motor's it's not just the size of the ports, it's the shape, additionally, it doesn't have to be smooth with a mirror finish to perform, that doesn't mean leave the runners as is. The air should be a little disrupted. That could be one of the reasons why the gains were not as expected as well as the flow. My heads are in the port shop and are being flowed. If the items being "worked over" are not flowed, doesn't matter how good it looks, how shineyit is, or how good of a mechanic you are, etc, it's going to be off. The flow bench is a must to maximize the results for this head or any other head or manifold.
This is my porter's opinion on the cl's head, it should deliver about an extra 30-35 bhp with FI; and one reason is the cams. Those valves are only going to be open so long. (And if you found cams, then what about springs, spring hieght, spring tension, compression, taller valve, the can of worms get deeper, but this is another topic.)
As to your tb, can't see any gains happing there when the inside diameter has not been opened up, it's your money and I hope you get lucky and see the gains your expecting. Keep us posted
When it comes to porting/polishing; to get the most, an experienced tech with a flow machine should be used. On honda motor's it's not just the size of the ports, it's the shape, additionally, it doesn't have to be smooth with a mirror finish to perform, that doesn't mean leave the runners as is. The air should be a little disrupted. That could be one of the reasons why the gains were not as expected as well as the flow. My heads are in the port shop and are being flowed. If the items being "worked over" are not flowed, doesn't matter how good it looks, how shineyit is, or how good of a mechanic you are, etc, it's going to be off. The flow bench is a must to maximize the results for this head or any other head or manifold.
This is my porter's opinion on the cl's head, it should deliver about an extra 30-35 bhp with FI; and one reason is the cams. Those valves are only going to be open so long. (And if you found cams, then what about springs, spring hieght, spring tension, compression, taller valve, the can of worms get deeper, but this is another topic.)
As to your tb, can't see any gains happing there when the inside diameter has not been opened up, it's your money and I hope you get lucky and see the gains your expecting. Keep us posted
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Stepping in finally... ThinJim, I agree 100% with you about what you said with the heads. I have thousands of hours on the flow bench and that is the only true way to get the most out of heads. As for his Throttle Body, it was bored completely out with the steps flattened and it is completely even throughout. Inside diameter is optimal for his N/A setup. The new T-Blade was shimmed and fit properly to accomodate for the bigger diameter. We have see dyno proven results from our customers, and I can vouch for the gains personally. If you guys have any questions or comments, please pm or call me and I'll help you all out! Sorry for the late response. Also, There are NEVER losses in power, only gains with an experianced shop. I personally have seen very optimistic gains throughout the powerband and have never seen any losses anywhere.
Thanks, Greg
Thanks, Greg
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Originally Posted by O-FL Motorsports
Stepping in finally... ThinJim, I agree 100% with you about what you said with the heads. I have thousands of hours on the flow bench and that is the only true way to get the most out of heads. As for his Throttle Body, it was bored completely out with the steps flattened and it is completely even throughout. Inside diameter is optimal for his N/A setup. The new T-Blade was shimmed and fit properly to accomodate for the bigger diameter. We have see dyno proven results from our customers, and I can vouch for the gains personally. If you guys have any questions or comments, please pm or call me and I'll help you all out! Sorry for the late response. Also, There are NEVER losses in power, only gains with an experianced shop. I personally have seen very optimistic gains throughout the powerband and have never seen any losses anywhere.
Thanks, Greg
Thanks, Greg
How can you vouch for his gains when he didn't have a dyno done prior to the work? I wouldn't put your neck out there so eagerly since there will be NOTHING to prove this modification gained (or lost) any power.
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Originally Posted by ThinJim
When it comes to porting/polishing; to get the most, an experienced tech with a flow machine should be used.
I almost had a chance to flow test them though at Calsonic. But the time never became available.
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Originally Posted by O-FL Motorsports
for his Throttle Body, it was bored completely out with the steps flattened and it is completely even throughout. Inside diameter is optimal for his N/A setup. The new T-Blade was shimmed and fit properly to accomodate for the bigger diameter. We have see dyno proven results from our customers, and I can vouch for the gains personally.
Are you vouching for the gains made about the thread subject or other cars?? As I am sure you are aware, gains of this type are often hard to feel but can be seen in track times and on the dyno. Too bad a dyno wasn't done before making any changes.
#76
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so where are those track results, Hurleysurf?
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Hey guys... Who said that I was vouching for his gains? He hasn't even been on a dyno or to the track yet.... I have done several of your cars. I have seen dyno results from several of my customers all with very nice gains that were felt. I have thousands of hours on the flow bench, and know how to makes these intakes flow to maximize efficiency and flow velocity. The gains are there to be had for a relatively inexpensive price with the stock look, did I mention under warranty? Why are you guys so against a mod that has had proven gains, looks stock, increases gas mileage, and is relatively inexpensive? I have been porting engines for years, and I know that there are and have been gains just with the intake manifold alone. Have you guys even ever seen the inside of one? It is very rough and unfinished. I am trying to get in contact with some of my previous customers to see if any still have the dyno's. Power is there, end of story...
--Greg
--Greg
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Originally Posted by O-FL Motorsports
Hey guys... Who said that I was vouching for his gains? He hasn't even been on a dyno or to the track yet.... I have done several of your cars. I have seen dyno results from several of my customers all with very nice gains that were felt. I have thousands of hours on the flow bench, and know how to makes these intakes flow to maximize efficiency and flow velocity. The gains are there to be had for a relatively inexpensive price with the stock look, did I mention under warranty? Why are you guys so against a mod that has had proven gains, looks stock, increases gas mileage, and is relatively inexpensive? I have been porting engines for years, and I know that there are and have been gains just with the intake manifold alone. Have you guys even ever seen the inside of one? It is very rough and unfinished. I am trying to get in contact with some of my previous customers to see if any still have the dyno's. Power is there, end of story...
--Greg
--Greg
Because it doesn't have proven gains on our cars, period.
Oh and...
Originally Posted by O-FL Motorsports
and I can vouch for the gains personally.
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Originally Posted by O-FL Motorsports
did I mention under warranty? Why are you guys so against a mod that has had proven gains, looks stock, increases gas mileage, and is relatively inexpensive?
Why are "we" against it? While it's great you are so optimistic about it, and supposedly have proven it - noone here has seen it proven except the orignal poster.
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Mrsteve, how can you say doesn't have proven gains on your cars when I have seen dyno's and am trying to get them to you guys? When the person who posted this posted for a reason and is going to get dyno tested. For the warranty, they will bring a car in and work on it completely without seeing the inside of the engine, and if they by chance open it up, it will have some carbon buildup and look the same to them as stock, as they don't know the difference.