Shawn S

Man, after reading some of this stuff I would NEVER buy from this company unless I let many others be the guinea pig and order first.
This guy seems like some 15-year old zit-faced kid the way he talks.
I’m talking about the “SSAutoChrome.” guy on the AV6 forum.

Good luck with this folks.

Hell, even COMPTECH is spelled WRONG on the website.
“FINALLY AN AFFORDABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMPTEC , AND OTHER BRANDS”



Shawn S

frank828

ok time for bed, i cant help but keep laughing at his constant responses, i think he needs to get the last word in.

one more time for ppl that might have missed the link i posted above

http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...215#post100047

acuraboy_RENAMED

looks like SSautochrome is going to hold off a bit in regards to the arrangement i had previously outlined. i'm going to see what "souljad9" for the AV6 board is willing to work out. i believe he has an offer to one person for dealer cost but my concern is the "what do i do with them if they're crap" part.

then again, the PR headers are slated to come out fairly soon. you can't beat equal lengths

acuraboy_RENAMED

i tried everyone

hughesne

This is how confident i am in this thread....I just ordered the Comptech Headers from Dean, well yesterday actually. But still, these will never happen or they will be crap.

SilverBullet_RENAMED

Here is proof to not buy from that guy...

Okay I just contacted OBX... and got a email back.

-----Original Message-----
From: info@obxracingsports.com [mailto:info@obxracingsports.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 5:23 PM
To: 'Russell Zotz'
Subject: OBX Header Information

We currently have a design for the 98+ Accord, but not the Acura CL/TL. The headers might fit if you say they do on the other design for Comptech. But we can’t guarantee it. Currently we do not have a DYNO graph available from us that shows the real power output on a Acura/Accord. The guy you are dealing with also seems to be shady, especially when we never gave him a Dyno Graph.

Please do email us if you have any questions.

Director of Marketing
OBX Racing

sidemarker

hmm

i guess my assumptions were right.

but i should refrain from "lazy fuck" to "sleezy fuck"

all he did was slap a obx header pic with a prototype racing pic and a little comptech header pic to make his selling point.

if he would have only posted the pic for the obx headers than maybe he would been real successfull with scamming a bunc of av6/cl/tl people...

sidemarker

BNut

Bless You SilverBullet! Now hopefully that guy will quit posting on our board and leave us in peace.

robbra

Acuraboy,

Check your pm...

Thanks for the info guys!

The info presented certainly doesn't speak very highly for this guy does it?

Thanks for the effort A-boy, probably by the time some other alternative comes out (if ever) my lease will be up...

moomaster_99

Wow!! You really think he made that graph in excel?

EricL

Hmmm.... perhaps this thread needs a short to long stay in the "lockbox"... Or perhaps it needs to be moved to "Virtual Car Parts" or "Dream Works" forum…
:shakehd:

FDao

jts1207

im still waiting for acboys response to this

acuraboy_RENAMED

response to what? lemme know and i'll be happy to respond.

acuraboy_RENAMED

alot of you guys can be real real pricks sometimes. i don't get why there's almost an air of vindiction goin on here. i don't give a rat's ass how someone operated their business or advertises or anything like that. all retailers are scum because they will all boldfaced lie to you about how they're aren't making any money on the deal that they're giving you. i'm also not one to look for pretty packes or cutsie ads and data. if u ever believe what a retailer is telling u then u deserve what's coming to you. whether its paying over a grand for headers or getting a set that were made in a sweat shop somewhere. SSAutochrome just reminds me of the rest of the stores on canal street in Manhattan. sure i can go to a name brand chain store ab pay almost full price for electronics or i can go to good ol uncle steve's near b'way and get the same exact product for like 1/3 of the price. sure i'll never take uncle steve's word for anything. i do my own research, walk around and get prices and such and then it's like a 25 minute haggling session in uncle steve's store and i'm outta there happy as can be. "buyer beware" is the only rule i follow when it comes to purchasing goods.

u guys make selling things some kind of moral issue. the bottom line is that every retailer lies to sell their product at one point. some will tell u that the cost of manufacturing is so high or that their product is exclusive in some other fashion. but as in this case for example, there's absoutely no reason why OBX headers couldn't flow as well as comptech's. but there's some mystique about comptech's and most of u believe that for some reason or other they can't be replicated or even improved upon. it comes down to the way in which comptech's are marketed and they've done a superb job in that respect. as was mentioned previously, u go talk to anyone who's modded a V8 and tell them what u're paying for headers and they will ball over in hysteria. someone will now say that the V8s have been out longer. perhaps but so has the competition in their market. and the volume and audience of V8's is such that it supports and really demands that kind of healthy competition. CL/TL audience will tend to be more willing to spend more so consequently they will be charged more. do u think the average AV6 owner can/will throw as much cash at their ride as the average CL/TL owner? its pure and classic marketing and demographics. its the very same reason that the Acura name doesn't exist as prominently east or west of NA. also take into consideration that mandrel bending and welding are not cutting edge technologies. the only real talent is in the welding and i know enough guys who are real artists with a welder to realize that this isn' a rare art. machinery costs are recouped very quickly in the manufacturing world when it comes to technology that has been around for so long. again i reference the V8 world. they've had mandrel bends forever.

i guess deep down inside we all want to support the good guy and buy stuff from the guy next door who smiles and is kind and has character and all that good stuff. whatever. i'm not marrying my retailer or buying them dinner. and i don't concern myself about labor practices and manufacturer ethics or issues of that sort. my interest is in how do i get the most bang for my buck. i think most of us are like that and that this mantra is why we purchased our CLs. dollar for dollar it was probably the best deal out there at the time. i didn't occupy myself about where the profits went to or which country i ws supporting. i was supporting enterprise (not the car rental place - though based on how many times my car has been in the shop...). sure i paid a little more because the car says acura and not honda but it didn't place the cost beyond reason. conversely, paying the current price for a set of headers with the word comptech on them is unacceptable to me so i will GLADLY entertain alternatives. i've read that comptech was a division of honda racing which is a division of honda motor. if this is the case, how much "R&D" did CT really have to do? but i digress.

acuraboy_RENAMED

i guess i don't focus as much as most of you folks on the morals and character of the person from whom i am buying something from. that's not their job. if i want morals and character i go to my family, friends or church. sure these aspects are a nifty bonus but they really have no place in business in my eyes. this also doesn't mean that i should approach a retailer with contempt and malice either. a retailer should be concentrating on selling me his product. remember how awesome a $500 header sounded? i'm sure some of u were thinking : "if these really are built to CT specs and quality, how can they be making any money off of that?" an OBX retailer on the AV6 board offered out a pair at dealer cost of 300 dollars. as amazing as 5 bills sounded - that was already a 40% profit - and that's ASSUMING that 300 is really the dealer cost. OBX uses the same same materials as CT so the only variable would be craftsmanship. but this is something we'll never know i suppose. and don't tell me R&D, CT recouped that a long time ago.
i agree that the manner in which SSAutochrome has gone about this bears a stench of inexperience and unfamiliarity with the acura market. but then again relatively our market is one of minutae. this is why OBX focuses more on our honda counter part - there's simpy more of them. as much as it is a retailers sole purpose to sell things it is a consumers sole purpose to educate themselves. look at the PC market and what has happened to it one the parts warehouses and DIY kits became popular. Dell and Gateway had to adjust their pricing. did manufacturing cost go down? did it become less expensive to ship or sell these things? no, they just finally had some formidable competition. same deal with deregulating the power companies here in jersey.

i still believe that the 500 dollar quality high performance header dream is not dead and that it will be a reality in our lifetimes once the monopoly is dissolved. in my former life as a bachelor with a kick ass job at the blue oval i think i would have gladly plunked down the cash to check this thing out.

frank828

ugh im drunk right now and cant read all of your post acuraboy. Im not saying that we shouldnt buy the headers, i do definetely believe that the headers will be available and they will give good gains similar to comptech and i actually am telling a bunch of my friends to get the OBX headers. I guess i just feel that we shouldnt be giving money to dealers with shady business practices.

Ppl like deansbluesi and blxmjx are good guys and we can at least trust them to the point that they will expain things to us that are in question, but ppl like the sschrome guy is just too shady. Like i said, there are a ton of other OBX dealers out there that im sure will give us the same deal if not better.

EricL

I will certainly agree about the blxmjx and Tim (autocarparts). I haven't had a chance to deal with deansbuesi yet, but I do find it interesting that these folks are nice, calm, and seem to want to make it right (before anybody gets the blow torch out, I'm just saying that these people have comported themselves with style and dignity and haven't always had an "easy audience").

As a side note, if there are problems at the beginning with the sales, it can only go down hill (yes, there are exceptions since everyone will have a bad day from time-to-time, but on the whole, the two vendors, in particular, that I've mentioned, have shown that people can "get along" and sell on this board).

I'm not implying or saying anything negative, only pointing out that there are examples of "sales", "group buys", and product creation that went along with a minimum of trouble...

And.... the two vendors I've mentioned have been asked some hard questions (IMO) and responded with a "I don't know... I'll find out" or "Hey, here's the info you need"...

sidemarker

i think everyone knows this, its almost common sense. but there are too many facts to show that we SHOULD NOT buy from this person doing the groupbuy. again i am not saying we shouldnt buy the obx headers, the msrp is only $599. and yes the comptech headers are priced at $1200 and they could both be a rip off price. everyone gets ripped off. that is a fact. its just some people have a little bit more money then others to make up the cost of the "mark up". i think these obx headers will be a great alternative for the expensive comptech headers.

i respect your willingness to get everyone together who are interested in the headers to set up some sort of group buy with this guy, but what happens if he does not deliver the product? there will be a bunch of angry cl members pointing fingers at you.

sidemarker

jimcol711

i really would like to hear the die hard comptech fanboys address acuraboys statement regarding the difference between the 2 brands....is that comptech "brand ID plate" worth the extra 500-600 bucks?? i mean, yeah, comptech is in SOME way affiliated with Acura (6 degrees of kevin bacon style, no less) and comptech may have the absolute best build quality but seriously, that is NOT, by ANY stretch of the imagination, worth an extra 500-600 bucks.....noooo way....how could there POSSIBLY be any significant difference in performance between these 2 header brands anyhow??? OBX is basically copying the comptechs....thats like comparing 2 different sets of comptech headers....ok, lets say by some weird phase of the moon FLUKE that the OBX give 2-5 hp less than the comptech, FUCK IT!! ill sacrafice 2-5 hp gain for 500 bucks!! that 500 bucks can buy me a V1.....or an intake and pullies and that will get my 2-5 hp right back at me, and THEN SOME!!!.....or what if by the same FLUKE, the OBX give an extra few HP...what will you all think then?? seriously, something does seem fishy with this guy....very strange behavior....BUT that does not detract from the fact that OBX is making headers for our car that are half the price of comptech....Acuraboy, im with you on this dude, ill get them, just let me know what i gotta do, once we know they fit, im totally in.

scalbert

Not that I am die-hard Comptech fan, but I do have their Headers. But I'll try to address these aspects but until we seem them it is just speculation.

There are many ways that there could be justifiable cost difference which are listed below.

Location of manufacturing, labor rates and overhead.

R&D will play a small factor.

Material Wall thickness. Flange thickness.

Build repeatbility.

Quality Control.

Final accepted quality and refinement.

CARB Certification!!! That does cost money...

Now if OBX is making them down the street from Comptech and matching them in every area; I would suggest that Comptech needs to look at employing better purchasing and manufacturing techniques...

But I doubt all things will be equal but at $600 and if they are close, then it is certainly an excellent alternative.

jimcol711

noone else is gonna comment??

dhlesq

Disagree. Most maybe, but that's why when I find an honest retailer I try to build the relationship, support their business, and tell my friends about them.

Not only do I want to. I actually do.

I think this is the heart of the conflict, if there is one, in this thread. Most of us concern ourselves with manufacturer ethics and all that. We do that because it is the manufacturer's ethics that will take care of us if there is something wrong with the product.

I appreciate your looking for options for us and all that. Just don't take it personally when people start expressing concerns over what appears to be something shady.

Shady practices in the advertising increase the likelihood of shady practices in the manufacturing or distribution which increases the likelihood of shady practices if the product causes a problem with our cars. That's all people seem to be saying, near as I can tell.

The questions you have been experiencing, Acuraboy, are not about your credibility. They are about the credibility of the company selling the product. That's it.

ferizzo

I hate this thread because I just spent between 30-60 minutes reading it (slow reader) to find out that we are in the same place we started...the rumor mill (OBX only has accord v6 headers, no one has a real dyno, and we still have to wait)!

Acuraboy, Thanks for trying and let us know if you do eventually get them and how they work. I am/was definitely interested but was waiting for results. As somone said earlier, most were questioning the retailer and the manufacturer...not you. Don't take it personally!

moomaster_99

I'll tell you this....that Comptech uses quality products and materials. Remember, THEY designed the headers (meaning time and materials) for which OBX is KNOCKING OFF. They employ ppl in California to do their TIG, not MIG welds at their FACILITY LOCATED IN CALIFORNIA (even though it is Sac..), . They have PAID FOR CARB CERTIFICATION. They use Stainless Steel....i doubt OBX is going to use that...probably just use 14 gauge mild steel...all the cheap brands do that to cut costs. If it flows better than CT, I'll believe it when I see it....CT has a flowbench...I've seen it...I've also seen their header set-up...its like 4 workstations with tig welders...they do it by hand with pre-designed tubes they outsourced. Hmmmmmmmm.....all that adds up.

I'll tell you how OBX is selling it for that cheap. They'll be using mild steel more than likely (ie, your headers are gonna rust). They copied the design from Comptech...and found someone in Taiwan that can copy it. They are using Taiwanese labor and materials(ie the mild steel, or if they are using SS, I'll bet they wouldn't pass American standards for steel.) Oh yeah...they aren't paying to CARB the headers...so in Cali, that's a free ticket to court and the Smog Ref.

So get off the OBX nutsack Acuraboy.....in OBX's defense...I will say it is a lot cheaper...but then again..you get what you pay for....I would have hoped that you would have learned that by now.

jimcol711

i think acuraboy already verified that the OBX headers will be Stainless Steel....so you can take that out of your comments...and so what about the CARB??? anyone living outside california doesnt have cops checking under their hood for parts....so anyone outside california that doesnt apply too....i dont care if a frickin american, taiwanese person, or a fucking monkey make them, the comptech nameplate is not worth the extra 600 bucks.....

scalbert

So is the first part meant to be taken as an verb or as an adjective...JK

Because if they are made overseas, you could possibly train a monkey to weld. But if it is one as described above then you might get a little extra with your headers...

CLpower

god damn i can't believe i just read all that shit. I've seen OBX headers before and they are good quality, not comptech quality but they are on par w/ the rest of the good header companies out there. So what if they copy comptechs design and are now doing it cheaper. Shit companies have been doing that for decades in the automotive industry, look at all the imitation wheels and other misc. products. Comptech won't sue for shit because the legal fees and such would be a complete waste of their time. Once I see a true dyno i'll most likely be in. Grow up guys, esp. you Bnut, you've been such an advocate of getting our market to grow and now someone finally comes out w/ something and you become a hater?


All you guys have been begging for fucking ever for someone to come out w/ another header other then comptech, and now one is finally out and all you have to say is shit on it. Obviously the dyno is not ready yet, don't think for a second that the minute it's ready you guys won't get it, cause you will. Just be patient, this stuff takes time. It took FOREVER for comptech to come out w/ headers for our car, it's gonna take a little while for these guys to do it.

CLpower

time out dustin, get off comptechs nutz for a minute. I know comptech makes gnarly products and the quality is unmatched. But cut OBX some slack, if the product works and performs good and you didn't already have your CT headers I can gurantee your broke ass self would be buying these over the comptechs. Of course they aren't gonna be the same quality, the same metals, and of course they aren't gonna pass carb, that shit is really expensive man, you know this as much as anyone else.


Let's not make assumptions on anything OBX has done or is doing until someone see's the product!

moomaster_99

Hey I stated earlier...that the price is right...if it performs as well as or even close to the CT...I would have bought them...
All I'm saying is that there is a reason CT charges that much...some ppl here dont seem to understand that....

When it comes down to it....it is the price...and you scottie should know that OBX products are akin to pacesetters or hotshot...they're cheap as hell, but the price is right and performance is pretty good...just not the best.


And for the person that keeps bringing up that bs about v8 headers being dirt cheap, there are a millions cars with the 350 or 302 motor, with a lot of them wanting to mod their cars...whereas at best there are maybe a few hundred thousnad with the J series motor..and maybe a few thousand of those that want to mod it ....lets compare apples to apples okay

Find a header for a Japanese v6 and give me some comparable prices.

SilverBullet_RENAMED

Just FYI since this guy kept insisting for someone to call OBX. I did. Well, the operator will not transfer me to a sales person or answer any questions unless I am a dealer. They flat out told me no. So that answers the question on getting detail info from OBX. lol

EricL

You would be surprised at what can go wrong with stainless steel and/or inconel and other metals that need to be fabricated into assemblies when the people and or production equipment in not properly designed or the people do not do quality work. (I spent about 2-years working with 304 and inconel building some pretty exotic combustion chambers and the workmanship needed to be first rate. There were some parts that needed incredible attention to detail and testing to hold up under continuous operation. The next time you see a TV or other consumer item with parts falling out of their circuit boards (I have), think about a set of headers; a cold air intake pipe with brackets that break off; or a A/C unit that runs for 2-months before a 10-cent connector breaks and you might consider that small details (related to production steps and inspection) can have a rather large impact on quality and reliability. Speaking from experience, quality doesn't come cheap

If OBX manages to implement a "build" program that can create a product that is equal to the Comptech headers, more power to them. There are a number of fabrication steps involved and if you need to return and replace a defective product just once, you have pretty much blown the difference in time and cost. (For those of you who "do it yourself" and have tons of time on your hand, experimentation can be its own reward). The point is: the current headers that Comptech produces work well, fit well, and produce consistent HP and keep on running (the early ones had a few problems). Additional vendors are great, but it takes times to see how their products hold up in the real world.

From reading the comments, I get this feeling that people believe that there is some "set" or "fixed" formula for making great parts -- sorry, I don't think so.

Give it some time and we'll see...