Got my UR Crank pulley installed (review)
#1
Got my UR Crank pulley installed (review)
First of all, i read on the UR *.pdf that it takes 5-7 days for the "engine to recognize the lighter weight of the crank pulley" .. any truth to this?
Second, I do feel a difference right off the bat... the car snaps a little better off the line .. downshifting is quicker... but nothing is super noticeable at this point. This is how I felt about my headers and intake when those were both installed .. i was sketchy on whether i really felt the difference..
However, w/ the headers/intake.. after a week, I REALLY started to feel a big difference. So I suspect this will be no different w/ this crank pulley. I picked up the stock pulley and wow! what a difference in weight .. i could do curls w/ the old one.
Second, I do feel a difference right off the bat... the car snaps a little better off the line .. downshifting is quicker... but nothing is super noticeable at this point. This is how I felt about my headers and intake when those were both installed .. i was sketchy on whether i really felt the difference..
However, w/ the headers/intake.. after a week, I REALLY started to feel a big difference. So I suspect this will be no different w/ this crank pulley. I picked up the stock pulley and wow! what a difference in weight .. i could do curls w/ the old one.
#5
Originally posted by Chopper
How much did it set ya back ?
How much did it set ya back ?
#6
Originally posted by sgmotoring
Is your UR pulley an underdrive pulley? If so, how much smaller is it?
Is your UR pulley an underdrive pulley? If so, how much smaller is it?
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#9
Re: Got my UR Crank pulley installed (review)
Originally posted by TL_Type_S
First of all, i read on the UR *.pdf that it takes 5-7 days for the "engine to recognize the lighter weight of the crank pulley" .. any truth to this?
First of all, i read on the UR *.pdf that it takes 5-7 days for the "engine to recognize the lighter weight of the crank pulley" .. any truth to this?
#10
I noticed that the official Stillen Parts Catalog includes the complete UR pulley set for several nissan cars... and I know Nissan acknowledges Stillen as their official aftermarket parts division .. i wonder if they feel the UR line is legitimate.
#12
brian .. if i forget to write a review.. feel free to PM me in a week and I'll let you know ... I've post an in-depth comparison. At this point, I'm trying real hard to be objective.. and since the snow is starting to clear up .. i'll be able to do more "testing."
#14
Brian .. sorry -- just cleared the PM box..
Garage Kwai .. HIGHLY recommended, tell them Raj w/ the white TL-S sent you .. Benson & his guys have done about 10 of these, it took them 45 minutes, cost me $80.00.
Garage Kwai .. HIGHLY recommended, tell them Raj w/ the white TL-S sent you .. Benson & his guys have done about 10 of these, it took them 45 minutes, cost me $80.00.
#15
dude, unplug the negative end of your battery for about 2 hours and then plug it back in and drive it like you stole it for about 10 minutes. When you wake up the next day and drive the car, you will thank me.
#16
Originally posted by bigman
dude, unplug the negative end of your battery for about 2 hours and then plug it back in and drive it like you stole it for about 10 minutes. When you wake up the next day and drive the car, you will thank me.
dude, unplug the negative end of your battery for about 2 hours and then plug it back in and drive it like you stole it for about 10 minutes. When you wake up the next day and drive the car, you will thank me.
#17
Originally posted by bigman
dude, unplug the negative end of your battery for about 2 hours and then plug it back in and drive it like you stole it for about 10 minutes. When you wake up the next day and drive the car, you will thank me.
dude, unplug the negative end of your battery for about 2 hours and then plug it back in and drive it like you stole it for about 10 minutes. When you wake up the next day and drive the car, you will thank me.
Please stop the BS unless you have something to back it other than optimism in feeling something. Any detectable difference would need to be at least 5% of which a pulley, yet alone an ECU reset, would not provide.
I know what is occuring and it has nothing to do with power changes. If you don't know then maybe you should learn prior to supplying such information.
#19
Stock pulley (crank) has a harmonic balancer built in....UR does not....it might effect the way your engine works (balance) and can damage your clutch/tranny...I believe someone here had problem before with the flywheel or something kept snapping...so becareful.
#20
Originally posted by TL_Type_S
Brian .. sorry -- just cleared the PM box..
Garage Kwai .. HIGHLY recommended, tell them Raj w/ the white TL-S sent you .. Benson & his guys have done about 10 of these, it took them 45 minutes, cost me $80.00.
Brian .. sorry -- just cleared the PM box..
Garage Kwai .. HIGHLY recommended, tell them Raj w/ the white TL-S sent you .. Benson & his guys have done about 10 of these, it took them 45 minutes, cost me $80.00.
#22
Originally posted by scalbert
And what will this do?? What specifically is altered in the ECU?? Are fuel trim tables changed which would be unaffected by a pulley change.
Please stop the BS unless you have something to back it other than optimism in feeling something. Any detectable difference would need to be at least 5% of which a pulley, yet alone an ECU reset, would not provide.
I know what is occuring and it has nothing to do with power changes. If you don't know then maybe you should learn prior to supplying such information.
And what will this do?? What specifically is altered in the ECU?? Are fuel trim tables changed which would be unaffected by a pulley change.
Please stop the BS unless you have something to back it other than optimism in feeling something. Any detectable difference would need to be at least 5% of which a pulley, yet alone an ECU reset, would not provide.
I know what is occuring and it has nothing to do with power changes. If you don't know then maybe you should learn prior to supplying such information.
#23
Originally posted by rondog
dude, calm down, i had this done after 2 months of proven poor performance. I was depressed my car was so slow and I ran with some other cars and got spanked. i did this and ran with the same cars (Bigman's TL-P and a 325i) and signifacantly won to 80 mph (sorry bigman). And i felt a major differnece in acceleration. just cuz you didn't do it right, doesn't mean you have shoot the procedure down. granted I did the procedure once and it didn't work because I repluged the car back in too early, it has to been done right to work and it will show the next day.
dude, calm down, i had this done after 2 months of proven poor performance. I was depressed my car was so slow and I ran with some other cars and got spanked. i did this and ran with the same cars (Bigman's TL-P and a 325i) and signifacantly won to 80 mph (sorry bigman). And i felt a major differnece in acceleration. just cuz you didn't do it right, doesn't mean you have shoot the procedure down. granted I did the procedure once and it didn't work because I repluged the car back in too early, it has to been done right to work and it will show the next day.
I can understand Steve's stance on this, as I had to reset my Navi twice (for about 1 hour). Two previous sessions had the unit off for only 20-minutes and the Navi never cleared out some settings (long story). So, my own personal experience was completely different (OK, everybody can have different experiences and it doesn’t prove anything; this is simple logic.) (BTW, a NAVI reset is preformed by disconnecting the battery for a set period of time.)
In any event, the car was performing well, and I couldn't tell that anything had changed (and I had put on headers, AEM CAI, and wheels at one point).
So, I know that some people say they get a big boost, and if it works great. However, the basic "facts" that Scalbert is presenting are to the best of my knowledge correct...
#24
Originally posted by randomwalk101
Stock pulley (crank) has a harmonic balancer built in....UR does not....it might effect the way your engine works (balance) and can damage your clutch/tranny...I believe someone here had problem before with the flywheel or something kept snapping...so becareful.
Stock pulley (crank) has a harmonic balancer built in....UR does not....it might effect the way your engine works (balance) and can damage your clutch/tranny...I believe someone here had problem before with the flywheel or something kept snapping...so becareful.
It is NOT a harmonic balancer.
The stock pulley has a chunk of rubber that absorbs/damps TORSIONAL vibrations. The engine is basically in balance with either pulley.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...ight=torsional
BTW, so far I don't know of anyone with A CLS having a problem.
YMMV
#26
Originally posted by rondog
dude, calm down, i had this done after 2 months of proven poor performance. I was depressed my car was so slow and I ran with some other cars and got spanked. i did this and ran with the same cars (Bigman's TL-P and a 325i) and signifacantly won to 80 mph (sorry bigman). And i felt a major differnece in acceleration. just cuz you didn't do it right, doesn't mean you have shoot the procedure down. granted I did the procedure once and it didn't work because I repluged the car back in too early, it has to been done right to work and it will show the next day.
dude, calm down, i had this done after 2 months of proven poor performance. I was depressed my car was so slow and I ran with some other cars and got spanked. i did this and ran with the same cars (Bigman's TL-P and a 325i) and signifacantly won to 80 mph (sorry bigman). And i felt a major differnece in acceleration. just cuz you didn't do it right, doesn't mean you have shoot the procedure down. granted I did the procedure once and it didn't work because I repluged the car back in too early, it has to been done right to work and it will show the next day.
Actually I have been messing with the engine controls in this car for coming up on four years. I have had a laptop hooked up to it hundreds of times and many of those times after resting the ECU. Not only that, I have worked with the manufacturers' engineers in tuning ECU parameters (we supply external data acquisition systems) prior to or post production. Needless to say I have some experience in this area.
There seems to be two camps here, those who are ignorant on engine controls and believe what they want to out of optimism. And then those who understand or test engine control alterations and know what occurs during a reset.
I lean back to the prior statement; if you do not know what is occurring then how can you be sure of the results?? Additionally and this is not my claim, it is somewhat universally accepted, it takes a minimum of a 5% change in power to really detect it. On a motor with I/H/P this would be about 12.5 WHP which is what the pulleys alone would give. So under that line of thinking the actual mass change of the pulley yields nothing without an ECU reset which alone would not account for 12.5WHP.
But let’s look at what is occurring during a reset which is known and can be read with a laptop and software. All fuel trim tables are reset to 0% but since these are only adjusted at idle or part throttle the WOT pulls in the "drive it like you stole it" concept are irrelevant. Additionally any changes would be trimmed out as that is the premise of the closed loop fuel control system. There does not appear to be adaptive spark control in our cars as is in the newer Accord. And by watching the ignition timing under similar conditions after the reset you can see that it runs the same advance.
So we now have verifiable evidence that there is no power changing values occurring in the ECU after a reset. To make more power with a reset the ECU would need to change the fueling and/or the timing as the 3rd parameter in power production is not controlled by the ECU; the airflow in. The values are the same within minutes after a reset.
So where does this optimistic power increase come from; perception. Remember, our transmission does adapt to driving characteristic. If reset to factory defaults and then driven hard it would be safe to assume the ECU would adapt to the requested higher shift points and potentially provide firmed shifts as well. This could give the impression of more power as the car is held in a lower gear longer and the shift is quicker; a perceived power gain but it actually is the same. However, there could be increased performance particularly when racing in a straight line and someone has the standard mods which keeps the power up longer. If held in a lower gear longer and the shifts are shortened this could give a sight edge in a race and may be what people feel is increased power. But in the end it is still the same power, it is just being used better.
But now the caveat, the transmission control system is always adapting. As such if you stop driving aggressively the shift points may be lowered and dulled. Then you are back to square one...
#27
it takes a minimum of a 5% change in power to really detect it.
#28
Once you have a tool like a Gtech Competition with Data logging, it is really easy to see what scalbert is saying:"it takes a minimum of a 5% change in power to really detect it."
Just check my CLS 2n Gear WHP run here: http://www.gtechproforums.com/forums...s=&threadid=25
The Gtech Claimed my CLS does 213 WHP. There is some estimated 12-15 HP drag loss, so that is 228 WHP clsoe to what you exect on a dyno.
FREE Software is here: http://www.gtechprosupport.com/support/PASS.htm
The G force in 2nd gear is like 0.3G, can you feel 0.3 or 0.305G?
BTW: You can download the software
Just check my CLS 2n Gear WHP run here: http://www.gtechproforums.com/forums...s=&threadid=25
The Gtech Claimed my CLS does 213 WHP. There is some estimated 12-15 HP drag loss, so that is 228 WHP clsoe to what you exect on a dyno.
FREE Software is here: http://www.gtechprosupport.com/support/PASS.htm
The G force in 2nd gear is like 0.3G, can you feel 0.3 or 0.305G?
BTW: You can download the software
#29
Originally posted by scalbert
No reason to calm down but I do see a reason to cease these myths.
Actually I have been messing with the engine controls in this car for coming up on four years. I have had a laptop hooked up to it hundreds of times and many of those times after resting the ECU. Not only that, I have worked with the manufacturers' engineers in tuning ECU parameters (we supply external data acquisition systems) prior to or post production. Needless to say I have some experience in this area.
There seems to be two camps here, those who are ignorant on engine controls and believe what they want to out of optimism. And then those who understand or test engine control alterations and know what occurs during a reset.
I lean back to the prior statement; if you do not know what is occurring then how can you be sure of the results?? Additionally and this is not my claim, it is somewhat universally accepted, it takes a minimum of a 5% change in power to really detect it. On a motor with I/H/P this would be about 12.5 WHP which is what the pulleys alone would give. So under that line of thinking the actual mass change of the pulley yields nothing without an ECU reset which alone would not account for 12.5WHP.
But let’s look at what is occurring during a reset which is known and can be read with a laptop and software. All fuel trim tables are reset to 0% but since these are only adjusted at idle or part throttle the WOT pulls in the "drive it like you stole it" concept are irrelevant. Additionally any changes would be trimmed out as that is the premise of the closed loop fuel control system. There does not appear to be adaptive spark control in our cars as is in the newer Accord. And by watching the ignition timing under similar conditions after the reset you can see that it runs the same advance.
So we now have verifiable evidence that there is no power changing values occurring in the ECU after a reset. To make more power with a reset the ECU would need to change the fueling and/or the timing as the 3rd parameter in power production is not controlled by the ECU; the airflow in. The values are the same within minutes after a reset.
So where does this optimistic power increase come from; perception. Remember, our transmission does adapt to driving characteristic. If reset to factory defaults and then driven hard it would be safe to assume the ECU would adapt to the requested higher shift points and potentially provide firmed shifts as well. This could give the impression of more power as the car is held in a lower gear longer and the shift is quicker; a perceived power gain but it actually is the same. However, there could be increased performance particularly when racing in a straight line and someone has the standard mods which keeps the power up longer. If held in a lower gear longer and the shifts are shortened this could give a sight edge in a race and may be what people feel is increased power. But in the end it is still the same power, it is just being used better.
But now the caveat, the transmission control system is always adapting. As such if you stop driving aggressively the shift points may be lowered and dulled. Then you are back to square one...
No reason to calm down but I do see a reason to cease these myths.
Actually I have been messing with the engine controls in this car for coming up on four years. I have had a laptop hooked up to it hundreds of times and many of those times after resting the ECU. Not only that, I have worked with the manufacturers' engineers in tuning ECU parameters (we supply external data acquisition systems) prior to or post production. Needless to say I have some experience in this area.
There seems to be two camps here, those who are ignorant on engine controls and believe what they want to out of optimism. And then those who understand or test engine control alterations and know what occurs during a reset.
I lean back to the prior statement; if you do not know what is occurring then how can you be sure of the results?? Additionally and this is not my claim, it is somewhat universally accepted, it takes a minimum of a 5% change in power to really detect it. On a motor with I/H/P this would be about 12.5 WHP which is what the pulleys alone would give. So under that line of thinking the actual mass change of the pulley yields nothing without an ECU reset which alone would not account for 12.5WHP.
But let’s look at what is occurring during a reset which is known and can be read with a laptop and software. All fuel trim tables are reset to 0% but since these are only adjusted at idle or part throttle the WOT pulls in the "drive it like you stole it" concept are irrelevant. Additionally any changes would be trimmed out as that is the premise of the closed loop fuel control system. There does not appear to be adaptive spark control in our cars as is in the newer Accord. And by watching the ignition timing under similar conditions after the reset you can see that it runs the same advance.
So we now have verifiable evidence that there is no power changing values occurring in the ECU after a reset. To make more power with a reset the ECU would need to change the fueling and/or the timing as the 3rd parameter in power production is not controlled by the ECU; the airflow in. The values are the same within minutes after a reset.
So where does this optimistic power increase come from; perception. Remember, our transmission does adapt to driving characteristic. If reset to factory defaults and then driven hard it would be safe to assume the ECU would adapt to the requested higher shift points and potentially provide firmed shifts as well. This could give the impression of more power as the car is held in a lower gear longer and the shift is quicker; a perceived power gain but it actually is the same. However, there could be increased performance particularly when racing in a straight line and someone has the standard mods which keeps the power up longer. If held in a lower gear longer and the shifts are shortened this could give a sight edge in a race and may be what people feel is increased power. But in the end it is still the same power, it is just being used better.
But now the caveat, the transmission control system is always adapting. As such if you stop driving aggressively the shift points may be lowered and dulled. Then you are back to square one...
#30
Originally posted by scalbert
And what will this do?? What specifically is altered in the ECU?? Are fuel trim tables changed which would be unaffected by a pulley change.
Please stop the BS unless you have something to back it other than optimism in feeling something. Any detectable difference would need to be at least 5% of which a pulley, yet alone an ECU reset, would not provide.
I know what is occuring and it has nothing to do with power changes. If you don't know then maybe you should learn prior to supplying such information.
And what will this do?? What specifically is altered in the ECU?? Are fuel trim tables changed which would be unaffected by a pulley change.
Please stop the BS unless you have something to back it other than optimism in feeling something. Any detectable difference would need to be at least 5% of which a pulley, yet alone an ECU reset, would not provide.
I know what is occuring and it has nothing to do with power changes. If you don't know then maybe you should learn prior to supplying such information.
#31
steve let me play devils advosate here ...is it possible that some of these cars are riding around with pulled timing due to things like heat soak and by resetting timing goes back to 0 there fore more power?
i will admit this and i am one of those that does not understand the ecu and how it works but on more than one occasion i have driven it hard for a couple hours in the evening cold and dry wake up the next day and the cat seems to pull noticably harder then the night before when it was colder and drier...this is w/o an ecu reset and in addition every time i go to the trak my car does get faster pass after pass upto about the 5th pass depending on how many hot laps i get
i will admit this and i am one of those that does not understand the ecu and how it works but on more than one occasion i have driven it hard for a couple hours in the evening cold and dry wake up the next day and the cat seems to pull noticably harder then the night before when it was colder and drier...this is w/o an ecu reset and in addition every time i go to the trak my car does get faster pass after pass upto about the 5th pass depending on how many hot laps i get
#32
Scalbert,
I've come to read all of your posts and I respect your knowledge base .. hence my question for you: what do you think of the crank pulley and the longevity/adverse-effects on the motor?
THanks
I've come to read all of your posts and I respect your knowledge base .. hence my question for you: what do you think of the crank pulley and the longevity/adverse-effects on the motor?
THanks
#33
Originally posted by rondog
damn, I'm too tired to read your post. I Know it worked for me and i don't need to prove it to you to make myself happy. No hard feelings.
damn, I'm too tired to read your post. I Know it worked for me and i don't need to prove it to you to make myself happy. No hard feelings.
Originally posted by bigman
Everytime i make a post about resetting the ecu, a bunch of yopu guys that know about the car chime and and say that this is false...My opinion is that it works, my facts may not be solid, but they make me happy so why not let others try it out too. If, its the placebo effect then let it be.
Everytime i make a post about resetting the ecu, a bunch of yopu guys that know about the car chime and and say that this is false...My opinion is that it works, my facts may not be solid, but they make me happy so why not let others try it out too. If, its the placebo effect then let it be.
I believe both of you, rondog even mentioned it, did not read my last post on this. So I will summarize the details.
The ECU behaves the same with the engine, using the same values for fuel and timing so power would remain the same. However, the transmission may behave differently. If the transaxle shifts higher and firmer it may improve performance without the engine actually making power.
This may be the perceived difference.
#35
Originally posted by typeR
steve let me play devils advosate here ...is it possible that some of these cars are riding around with pulled timing due to things like heat soak and by resetting timing goes back to 0 there fore more power?
steve let me play devils advosate here ...is it possible that some of these cars are riding around with pulled timing due to things like heat soak and by resetting timing goes back to 0 there fore more power?
Heat soak will hurt power and can make a difference but this is irrelevant of the ECU being reset or not.
#36
Originally posted by TL_Type_S
what do you think of the crank pulley and the longevity/adverse-effects on the motor?
what do you think of the crank pulley and the longevity/adverse-effects on the motor?
So far it seems that it might not be a problem but until we see some engine wear value after 50k miles or so we can't say for sure either way. But if 15k has occurred and everything looks fine then that is probably good enough for most. This is why I have always been on the fence about this subject.
#37
Originally posted by mattg
too bad we can't lock in those shift settings.
too bad we can't lock in those shift settings.
No one has really delved into the electronics of the 5AT. But things could be done.
#38
Originally posted by scalbert
No one has really delved into the electronics of the 5AT. But things could be done.
No one has really delved into the electronics of the 5AT. But things could be done.
A good "shift kit" or "electronic shift kit" and a better torque converter would recover some of that lost HP at the wheels . . as much as 20HP at the wheel IMO.
And maybe 3-5ths in the 1/4
So when is someone going to install one of Dean's aftermarket trannys? I would if I had the $$$$
Of course you'd need to tighten up that suspension to eliminate too much movement.
Ruf
#39
Originally posted by scalbert
Honestly I can't say for sure. Until there is more time on the motor we can't say for sure. In theory there might be a problem but in practical application it is irrelevant.
So far it seems that it might not be a problem but until we see some engine wear value after 50k miles or so we can't say for sure either way. But if 15k has occurred and everything looks fine then that is probably good enough for most. This is why I have always been on the fence about this subject.
Honestly I can't say for sure. Until there is more time on the motor we can't say for sure. In theory there might be a problem but in practical application it is irrelevant.
So far it seems that it might not be a problem but until we see some engine wear value after 50k miles or so we can't say for sure either way. But if 15k has occurred and everything looks fine then that is probably good enough for most. This is why I have always been on the fence about this subject.
#40
Originally posted by darrinb
thats all i worry about w/ aftermarket pulleys
thats all i worry about w/ aftermarket pulleys