First Post... Need some advice on purchase
08-08-2009, 12:37 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
First Post... Need some advice on purchase
Hey everyone,
New guy here, well to this forum. My current ride is a pristine '02 Accord EX Coupe, 4 cylinder with an AT. The AT has gone (@60k)--no surprise.
Anyways, I was never a fan of 4 cylinders and am disgusted with the AT. I test drove some 02/03 TL Type-S's and was very impressed, but unfortunately the cost to repair the tranny on a high mileage car scares me.
I think I fit OK into the CL (6'5" here), and I've test driven a silver '03 CL Type-S 6-speed at a dealer. I've negotiated them down to $8k with a 30 day drivetrain warranty and the right to have my friend (Acura/Honda certified technician) look over the car--the carfax is clean also.
That all being said, my only disappointments with the car is it has 102k miles and no navigation. I guess I'd just like to get peoples constructive comments/advice, particularly:
New guy here, well to this forum. My current ride is a pristine '02 Accord EX Coupe, 4 cylinder with an AT. The AT has gone (@60k)--no surprise.
Anyways, I was never a fan of 4 cylinders and am disgusted with the AT. I test drove some 02/03 TL Type-S's and was very impressed, but unfortunately the cost to repair the tranny on a high mileage car scares me.
I think I fit OK into the CL (6'5" here), and I've test driven a silver '03 CL Type-S 6-speed at a dealer. I've negotiated them down to $8k with a 30 day drivetrain warranty and the right to have my friend (Acura/Honda certified technician) look over the car--the carfax is clean also.
That all being said, my only disappointments with the car is it has 102k miles and no navigation. I guess I'd just like to get peoples constructive comments/advice, particularly:
* Is the price reasonble, considering its through an Acura dealer?
* Are there any particular trouble spots I should pay particular attention to? (I thought I heard motor mounts...)
* The mileage... is it too much? These cars, both the TL and CL seem to all have lots of mileage. I don't mind it and can even put some work into it down the road, especially when I finally get ready to add boost.
* Anything electical I should check? I've researched and found out about the expensive headlights, however I plan on a retrofit with FX projectors and clear lenses very shortly after I get the car.
* Any good sites to find aftermarket parts? I've searched and searched, for new aftermarket headlights for example, and come up short on sites offering items for the CL. Seems to be a TL-dominated market.
Thanks so much for any advice anyone can offer. Sorry for the lengthy post, but with some luck I'll be contributing to this forum soon * Are there any particular trouble spots I should pay particular attention to? (I thought I heard motor mounts...)
* The mileage... is it too much? These cars, both the TL and CL seem to all have lots of mileage. I don't mind it and can even put some work into it down the road, especially when I finally get ready to add boost.
* Anything electical I should check? I've researched and found out about the expensive headlights, however I plan on a retrofit with FX projectors and clear lenses very shortly after I get the car.
* Any good sites to find aftermarket parts? I've searched and searched, for new aftermarket headlights for example, and come up short on sites offering items for the CL. Seems to be a TL-dominated market.
08-08-2009, 01:00 PM
#2
It's a good car. However.....
There's a 105K Mile service due that requires a timing belt change. That's $800 minimum. If not done factor that cost in.
What shape is the clutch in? May need to replace that near future. IDK, some have lasted 150K some 90K. Parts alone are about $700.
The nav is not worth it. Not supported any longer as it an analog system. All digital now. Any aftermarket system will be way more valuable.
There is very little aftermarket support for the CLS. No headlights, or normal parts that are made for an Accord or civic. Most companies have little interest in a discontinued car that was made for 3 years & is on average 7years old now. See the FAQ for what available. As well as other great info.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/%2A%2A%2A-official-2nd-gen-cl-information-thread-%2A%2A%2A-480087/
btw, I'm in coconut creek
There's a 105K Mile service due that requires a timing belt change. That's $800 minimum. If not done factor that cost in.
What shape is the clutch in? May need to replace that near future. IDK, some have lasted 150K some 90K. Parts alone are about $700.
The nav is not worth it. Not supported any longer as it an analog system. All digital now. Any aftermarket system will be way more valuable.
There is very little aftermarket support for the CLS. No headlights, or normal parts that are made for an Accord or civic. Most companies have little interest in a discontinued car that was made for 3 years & is on average 7years old now. See the FAQ for what available. As well as other great info.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/%2A%2A%2A-official-2nd-gen-cl-information-thread-%2A%2A%2A-480087/
btw, I'm in coconut creek
08-08-2009, 01:39 PM
#3
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Definately take a look at the mounts.
Even though the Carfax is clean, go over the body with a magnet (covered by a tissue of course) and check for bondo. Not all accidents are reported.
Check all the seams in the engine bay and make sure the seam sealer looks original. If it isn't, something has been repaired.
Check under the weatherstripping on the doors for rust (doubt it in FL though).
Check the trunk carpet for any stains indicating leaks, sometimes the taillight gaskets get old and crusty.
Obviously find out about the timing belt.
Do a high rpm shift from second into third. Does it grind?
Whats the condition of the brakes? Does the steering wheel shake when you get on them?
Is there any aftermarket parts on the car? Depending on the part/installation, the car could have been abused.
I cant think of anything else.
Even though the Carfax is clean, go over the body with a magnet (covered by a tissue of course) and check for bondo. Not all accidents are reported.
Check all the seams in the engine bay and make sure the seam sealer looks original. If it isn't, something has been repaired.
Check under the weatherstripping on the doors for rust (doubt it in FL though).
Check the trunk carpet for any stains indicating leaks, sometimes the taillight gaskets get old and crusty.
Obviously find out about the timing belt.
Do a high rpm shift from second into third. Does it grind?
Whats the condition of the brakes? Does the steering wheel shake when you get on them?
Is there any aftermarket parts on the car? Depending on the part/installation, the car could have been abused.
I cant think of anything else.
08-08-2009, 02:21 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
Great advice and thank you! Timing belt I'm not sure of and would plan to change that first along with the water pump. The car is smooth as anything and I noticed no grinding whatsoever. Brakes seem fine definitely no shaking, will probably upgrade the rotors when new pads are needed. The clutch seems fine, albeit a little soft. I hammered it upto about 90 with no grinding or shake in the car. I'm assuming it's just a typical Honda/Acura clutch feel, but I'm going to ask my mechanic to drive it. IM not sure if there is any way to easily inspect the clutch/flywheel.
Great advice on the body stuff. I saw no signs of leaks but will double check all seams especially when it's on the lift. The engine seems very strong, despite the mileage.
Lack of aftermarket is a bit of a bummer... I had the same problem when I had my Legend, they always wanted to support the Integra and I just couldn't fit! A pair of aftermarket headlights would be nice while I do the retrofit, but guess Ill have to work fast LOL. Oh, and thankfully no signs of anything aftermarket other than a velcroed XM radio, so luckily I would have a clean slate to make sure things were done right!
Btw, IM in Ft. Lauderdale ...
Great advice on the body stuff. I saw no signs of leaks but will double check all seams especially when it's on the lift. The engine seems very strong, despite the mileage.
Lack of aftermarket is a bit of a bummer... I had the same problem when I had my Legend, they always wanted to support the Integra and I just couldn't fit! A pair of aftermarket headlights would be nice while I do the retrofit, but guess Ill have to work fast LOL. Oh, and thankfully no signs of anything aftermarket other than a velcroed XM radio, so luckily I would have a clean slate to make sure things were done right!
Btw, IM in Ft. Lauderdale ...
08-08-2009, 02:50 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
08-08-2009, 02:56 PM
#7
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Also, check the oil before you purchase. That can tell you alot.
These engines are pretty strong. How deep are you willing to go into modding? The CL has a decent aftermarket selection, but as Rajca said, its not cheap. I enjoy having a car not many people have because 1) not many people know what it is and 2) when you modify it its most likely a custom job, so I feel more satisfied knowing that I had to do this or that to make it work, and it works as intended.
The price doesnt seem too bad, but the timing belt is definately an expensive job. I noticed that the clutch was a bit soft as well, and now mine is slipping slightly. Clutches for this car arent cheap either. Does it just feel soft, or does it slip as well?
These engines are pretty strong. How deep are you willing to go into modding? The CL has a decent aftermarket selection, but as Rajca said, its not cheap. I enjoy having a car not many people have because 1) not many people know what it is and 2) when you modify it its most likely a custom job, so I feel more satisfied knowing that I had to do this or that to make it work, and it works as intended.
The price doesnt seem too bad, but the timing belt is definately an expensive job. I noticed that the clutch was a bit soft as well, and now mine is slipping slightly. Clutches for this car arent cheap either. Does it just feel soft, or does it slip as well?
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08-08-2009, 08:46 PM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
Civicdrvr... I hear you on having something unique. I find nothing more frustrating then a dealer lot of a bunch of the same car. For intance, on my Accord I could have picked from a slew of headlights, but instead opted to do my own black housing and projector retro. After the timing belt and maintenance stuff, I plan to look at a cai, install my sound system, an alaram (not sure about the remote start on a 6 SPD, lol), and then maybe a turbo sown the road... The engine feels beautiful stoc, just will try for some tweaks 
I'll look into asking the dealership to do the timing belt, or least at a reduced price. Thanks.
Oh, the clutch is soft I think but don't have a good reference vehicle. And luckily I found no slipping.
I'll look into asking the dealership to do the timing belt, or least at a reduced price. Thanks.
Oh, the clutch is soft I think but don't have a good reference vehicle. And luckily I found no slipping.
08-08-2009, 10:51 PM
#12
Ultra Negro
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And if you really want a motor to last long, i would suggest using royal purple, or redline synthetic oils, because well, they are the best synthetic oils on the market
Last edited by OperationDarkie; 08-08-2009 at 10:53 PM.
08-09-2009, 05:55 AM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
Rajca: Oh joy, another project in the future :/ LOL Good luck with your setup, can't wait to see the results if you post pics!
Elite: Thanks!
nf3d0149ab: Reassuring, thanks! (Taking a quick loan out from "bank of dad" as I don't have the cash available until midweek... Nice to hear some positive, as all I've been hearing lately is "you're nuts")
OperationDarkie: Good advice! I'm definitel obsessive about oil changes every 3k. I heard of issues switching over to synthenic on a high mileage car though, no bad experiences doing so? Thanks.
Elite: Thanks!
nf3d0149ab: Reassuring, thanks! (Taking a quick loan out from "bank of dad" as I don't have the cash available until midweek... Nice to hear some positive, as all I've been hearing lately is "you're nuts"
)OperationDarkie: Good advice! I'm definitel obsessive about oil changes every 3k. I heard of issues switching over to synthenic on a high mileage car though, no bad experiences doing so? Thanks.
08-09-2009, 08:51 AM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
Ok thanks, that was my concern. Probably will stick with high quality STD oil and 3k oil changes to be safe.
Going to the dealer today and am supposed to borrow the car for the afternoon so I can take it to my mechanic... Will give me a nice 30 minute drive and chance to open it up a bit.
Going to the dealer today and am supposed to borrow the car for the afternoon so I can take it to my mechanic... Will give me a nice 30 minute drive and chance to open it up a bit.
08-09-2009, 11:27 AM
#17
Senior Moderator
most honda motors go to 300k, if you change the oil in them like you are supposed to. but some people aren't very smart.
And if you really want a motor to last long, i would suggest using royal purple, or redline synthetic oils, because well, they are the best synthetic oils on the market
And if you really want a motor to last long, i would suggest using royal purple, or redline synthetic oils, because well, they are the best synthetic oils on the market
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...t=royal+purple
08-09-2009, 11:42 AM
#18
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Amsoil OWNS Royal Purple, always has and always will.
However, since price is a concern especially with the amount of miles I put on my CL, I use Mobil 1 synthetic and change every 5k.
OP- Alot of people one here (myself included) love using SeaFoam to clean the engine/fuel system. However, with 100k miles I would not suggest adding it to your oil. The SeaFoam will clean out the deposits in worn seals and cause leaks.
If you do end up buying the CL, Im sure you wont regret it. Just make sure you make a solid effort in trying to obtain a set of headers. CompTech headers are great, but expensive and XS Headers are cheap, but the quality isnt the same as CompTech. Make sure the headers you do get are made for the 6MT.
Check out the FAQ, theres alot of usefull and some useless but interesting info in there. I know the search functiion isnt the greatest, but if you use quotes you may yield better results. If you cant find your answer, dont be afraid to ask. Many of us on here have done alot of work to our cars so we can give you some advice.
Let us know what your mechanic says
However, since price is a concern especially with the amount of miles I put on my CL, I use Mobil 1 synthetic and change every 5k.
OP- Alot of people one here (myself included) love using SeaFoam to clean the engine/fuel system. However, with 100k miles I would not suggest adding it to your oil. The SeaFoam will clean out the deposits in worn seals and cause leaks.
If you do end up buying the CL, Im sure you wont regret it. Just make sure you make a solid effort in trying to obtain a set of headers. CompTech headers are great, but expensive and XS Headers are cheap, but the quality isnt the same as CompTech. Make sure the headers you do get are made for the 6MT.
Check out the FAQ, theres alot of usefull and some useless but interesting info in there. I know the search functiion isnt the greatest, but if you use quotes you may yield better results. If you cant find your answer, dont be afraid to ask. Many of us on here have done alot of work to our cars so we can give you some advice.
Let us know what your mechanic says
08-09-2009, 01:59 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Haha great info guys (and gals?)... Glad I found this forum. My friend wasn't working today, so I put off getting it checked untill tomorrow if it is still available. We will see if it was meant to be! On the Sea Foam note, I just ran it through the engine, oil, and gas on my Accord, and yes I now swear by it. The engine was perfect, for what it was, andI still notice a small increase in power and definitely in the smoothness of the engine!
Yes I do generally try to search first too LOL. Sometimes, like was said, the effectiveness isn't perfect.
Yes I do generally try to search first too
LOL. Sometimes, like was said, the effectiveness isn't perfect.
08-10-2009, 04:42 PM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
Well just back from the checkup... What a pleasure to pull past any VW or other little car that tried to be cocky on the expressway! LOL
Bad news is the following:
* I was going to pay out the door, tho they were griping when I reiterated that.
* My mechanic found the following needed:
- rear main seal oil leak (hence the slipping I felt in the clutch)
- as long as he was in there he said to do the clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing.
- brake pads low all around
- 4 tires sometime in the near future
- all fluids flushed
- timing belt
- plugs a good idea
I figure this will go for about $2500 less the tires.
The dealer pushed me for what I would pay "out the door right now"... I felt bad offering $5000 or $5500 tops so I told him I would get back to him tomorrow.
Bad news is the following:
* I was going to pay out the door, tho they were griping when I reiterated that.
* My mechanic found the following needed:
- rear main seal oil leak (hence the slipping I felt in the clutch)
- as long as he was in there he said to do the clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing.
- brake pads low all around
- 4 tires sometime in the near future
- all fluids flushed
- timing belt
- plugs a good idea
I figure this will go for about $2500 less the tires.
The dealer pushed me for what I would pay "out the door right now"... I felt bad offering $5000 or $5500 tops so I told him I would get back to him tomorrow.
08-10-2009, 06:20 PM
#23
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Id do $6500. A clutch and timing belt job is pretty in depth. If there is oil on the clutch, the clutch is garbage.
08-10-2009, 06:49 PM
#24
Ball park....
Clutch + labor =$900 (seal included)
Timing belt parts & labor = $900, (plugs should be included in this)
Tires = $600
Brakes all 4 new good rotors & good pads & labor = $500
$2900 in repairs.
Honestly unless that dealer will give that car away for $5K I'd look elsewhere.
Clutch + labor =$900 (seal included)
Timing belt parts & labor = $900, (plugs should be included in this)
Tires = $600
Brakes all 4 new good rotors & good pads & labor = $500
$2900 in repairs.
Honestly unless that dealer will give that car away for $5K I'd look elsewhere.
08-10-2009, 07:30 PM
#25
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks all. Fuzzy I tend to agree with $5000 out the door or even $6000 if they do the timing belt. Think that's going to be my response tomorrow.
08-11-2009, 03:06 PM
#26
an adult perspective
I'd check into something first. Your friend ... did he say you needed a timing belt because of a visual inspection ... or because he read that they need to be replaced around the 105K mark. Reason being ... there was a Timing Belt tensioner recall in the fall of 2003, and depending on who the original owner worked with, everything may have been swapped out and you may not need to deal with this at this time. And I don't think you want to replace the timing belt without changing out the water pump as well. Access to the service history could be monetarily beneficial to you. Also ... the service interval was mis-quoted above. Factory recommends every 7500 miles. I am less than 1800 miles away from my next scheduled factory service (currently sitting at 215720 miles on the clock) and have hit every 7500 service interval on the button ... and have suffered zero problems with the car. Had one motor mount replaced about a year or so ago I believe it was. However ... if you want to replace your oil every 3000 miles because of bad advice on the forum, knock yourself out.
08-11-2009, 04:19 PM
#27
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Before you judge our advice, look at the way we drive our cars. I as well as Rajca I am sure, drive out cars very hard. Oil breaks down over time. If you drive the car easily then changing it at 3k or 5k would be a waste of money. However if you are constantly driving the car to redline (as I am) then you need to change it sooner as the oil breaks down and wont protect as well as fresh oil.
08-11-2009, 10:08 PM
#29
Before you judge our advice, look at the way we drive our cars. I as well as Rajca I am sure, drive out cars very hard. Oil breaks down over time. If you drive the car easily then changing it at 3k or 5k would be a waste of money. However if you are constantly driving the car to redline (as I am) then you need to change it sooner as the oil breaks down and wont protect as well as fresh oil.
08-12-2009, 12:26 PM
#30
Racer
Thread Starter
Good advice again... I haven't really felt like calling the dealer yet, still waiting to hear back "my" cost on all the work... I'm pretty frustrated now but will have to see what happens.
In reference to the oil changes, yes I've always figured it cheap insurance (thanks Dad). I have a 4 cylinder Accord now, so I've kind of forgotten what it is to drive hard, but I'm slowly remembering
My first goal is that I need a reliable DD though... So I want to have the majority of the work done immediately, brake pads/rotors and tires can wait a few thousand miles. Full fluid flushes, clutch/flywheel/seal, and timing belt (etc.) will be the first stuff on the list.
Y2K3CL-S: Thanks for the info on the recall--good to know! The reason I mentioned changing the timing belt is strictly because of the mileage and Acura's recommended service interval. The only thing my mechanic said was he could tell the timing belt case had never been opened. If the recall included a new timing belt, it would be too easy (sweet) to think Acura would still honor recall as I would have about another $1000 I could spare... I'm on a pretty tight $8k budget initially to get the car and in reliable order until my other car is sold and a few other things occur in my life.
In reference to the oil changes, yes I've always figured it cheap insurance (thanks Dad). I have a 4 cylinder Accord now, so I've kind of forgotten what it is to drive hard, but I'm slowly remembering
My first goal is that I need a reliable DD though... So I want to have the majority of the work done immediately, brake pads/rotors and tires can wait a few thousand miles. Full fluid flushes, clutch/flywheel/seal, and timing belt (etc.) will be the first stuff on the list.
Y2K3CL-S: Thanks for the info on the recall--good to know! The reason I mentioned changing the timing belt is strictly because of the mileage and Acura's recommended service interval. The only thing my mechanic said was he could tell the timing belt case had never been opened. If the recall included a new timing belt, it would be too easy (sweet) to think Acura would still honor recall
as I would have about another $1000 I could spare... I'm on a pretty tight $8k budget initially to get the car and in reliable order until my other car is sold and a few other things occur in my life.
08-15-2009, 09:50 AM
#31
an adult perspective
Timing Belt, Tensioner, and Water Pump all replaced on my car because of the recall. The water pump on my car wasn't the one specified in the recall (wasn't the correct "raised" number), but my service dealer did it for me anyway. Gratis.
08-29-2009, 08:30 PM
#32
Racer
Thread Starter
Well thanks again everyone! Sorry I never got back, unfortunately I had lost out on that car! However, with some searching nationwide and the help of a friend, I just received my newest project!
'03 CL-S 6-speed w/Navi
'03 CL-S 6-speed w/Navi
08-29-2009, 11:13 PM
#33
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Nice pick up. Thats an interesting looking grill. Any info on it?
08-30-2009, 08:14 AM
#34
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks! I'm very happy so far... going to pick up some new tires and fix an alignment or perhaps motor mount issue causing a slight pull when power is applied and then a few cosmetic items and she should be good to start playing with!
No info on the grill except that it appears to be custom with a piece of perforated metal. It looks pretty nice from a distance but is a little sloppy up close from the inside. Probably will have to redo it soon or add a new grill to my list of stuff to acquire along with some extra tail lights
Will likely start a new thread as "projects" unwind
No info on the grill except that it appears to be custom with a piece of perforated metal. It looks pretty nice from a distance but is a little sloppy up close from the inside. Probably will have to redo it soon or add a new grill to my list of stuff to acquire along with some extra tail lights
Will likely start a new thread as "projects" unwind
08-30-2009, 05:07 PM
#35
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Dont confuse an alignment issue with torque steer.
08-30-2009, 06:51 PM
#36
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks Civicdrvr... I got a chance to drive some today and the alignment does indeed seem find... I'm guessing my problem is tranny and/or motor mounts, going to look into upgrading them. There is a definite slight pull to the left when I apply power or engage the clutch, also a bit of hesitation/shake when I am driving at low speed and let up on the gas. Will hopefully get to my mechanic Tuesday or Wednesday.
09-02-2009, 07:14 AM
#38
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks, and yes I honestly got the Navi because of the rarity of it, for the way it cleans up the controls, and for possible modification down the road with an AV setup. I have a 2.5 Nav DVD tho and am a little bummed that apparently the hacks available to the newer cars don't seem to be to us!? :/ haha guess that should be another thread though.
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