NSX-Tuner

I was on the express way last night and pulled up to the light. There was this Pontiac Firebird next to me in the left lane. It was a 2001 or 2002 Formula Coupe, 5.7-liter V8, but not sure it had a MT. Anyway, the light changed and we started to roll up to speed slowly. I shifted into 2nd and eased up to 3500 RPM, and then he nailed it. He jumped about a half a car length on me, until I nailed it. Then I pulled past him real quick. By the time I shifted into 3rd, I was already 3 cars on him. When I hit 75, I was at least 6 cars in front, and then backed off. He flew by me and looked pissed. I'd love to have a run with the 6MT Firebird Formula Coupe. The one with 5.7-liter V8 310 HP/340 FT-LBS TQ (note: crank HP/TQ). I understand there is also a 325 HP version.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Don't know man, He either couldn't drive, wasn't racing, or had a V6 dressed up like a V8. Even the auto should kill the CLS 6 speed. Unless it SC'd.

evilstorm

In what state do they have lights on the expressway?

farberstyle

he has an s/c

Black CL-S 4-Life

Nice kill!
Even with a S/C 6 cars is alot to put on a LS1.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Didn't know that

vinarnold

nice kill man !!!

NSX-Tuner

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I have an '03 CLS 6MT with CT i/sc/h/bp/e that dyno's at 305 WHP/262 FT-LBS TQ. I looked at the spec for a 5.7L V8 325 HP/340 TQ (crank rating) 6MT and I still think I'd walk away from a stock one. Our weight is about the same and I believe that I still have the advantage of HP/TQ with the S/C - IMHO.

Chaptorial

Awesome kill.

That S/C turns the CL into a real sleeper.

BoostedM3

nice kill dood

maybe we'll see on sat how your s/c'd 6sp does against my 345hp/340tq (thats at the wheels)

Red Rider

I'm looking to see that to !! What a great bunch of cars we're gonna have out there

Oh, nice kill on the Firebird

NSX-Tuner

Gee, that's hardly fair... out-of-the-box from the factory with a S/C and 3 valves per cylinder and then you've modded it as well. Dawm, it even weighs about the same.

Well, I've been saying I wanted a challenge after getting the S/C.

I know, I know, I need to be humbled.

looking forward to seeing the beast...

NSX-Tuner

I'm going to get 'destroyed'

BoostedM3

well, i think if the z06 runs it will own both of us...about the same power to the ground (345ish) but 400lbs lighter.

We know which car the camera man should be in.

TheyCallMeSteel

You DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT have a horsepower/torque advantage over them with your S/C. Many, and of course this one doesnt have to be one of them, have dynod 305+ hp and 330+ tq. With your modifications I see no reason you cant make it interesting from a roll, but you WILL Not pull an auto or MT that hard. So in this case, congratulations, just dont run into one with a driver worth a damn.

NSX-Tuner

You are incorrect:

Max factory stock specs (from pontiac website) for even a 2002 Firebird Formula Coupe, 5.7L V8, 6MT is 325 HP/340 TQ at the crank, NOT WHP. So considering the loss to the wheels, it would have less WHP than my 305 WHP S/Cd CLS 6MT. Torque would be very close.

TheyCallMeSteel

You have clearly not spent much time of at ls1.com, ls2.com, or reading some domestic magazines. Ls1's have been routinely understated and have put out numbers that imply closer to 350 crank power. If you were to go over to Ls1 and ask, i am sure plenty of people can post you dyno sheets to prove it. That doesnt mean EVERY ls1 does that, but a GREAT number have. Even the ones that hit 310hp still put out gobs more torque, so the highway run sounds more doable, but not as many lenghts as you stated.

TheyCallMeSteel

Just did a little diggin around. An average LS1 is putting down 287 hp @ 5400 and 310 tq. That same car after 10k miles put down 299 hp @5400. Just goes to show you that there are many that put down close to the same power, and GOBS MORE TORQUE. So to beat him like you did, means he gave up a LONG time before.

Not taking away anything from you car.

NSX-Tuner

You may have a point, but consider this; my car is setup exactly like CompTech's prototype CLS 6MT except for the brembo brake kit, wheels and tires. My car has Michelin PS A/S 225/50ZR17s and stock rims, meaning that my tires have a 0.6 greater outer dia. and heavier wheels than CompTech's CLS.

CompTech's CLS has dyno'd as high as 325-330 WHP with TQ as high as 300 FT-LBS. As anyone knows, dyno numbers can vary greatly depending on a lot of factors, from day to day or hour to hour on a given day.

I believe that a 6MT Firebird is probably geared a little higher and the auto even higher.

From a rolling start:
My SC'd CLS 6MT vs. an auto firebird, I believe I'd pull away; vs. a 6MT firebird, it would be a close race.

Off the line the firebird would pull away until I could get some traction.

But this is all speculation, the proof is in a real race and each driver's ability.

DigiBox

There won't be any staight-a-ways with 2 lanes in "twisy" land. Perhaps on the way up there. But yes, the Z06 should be bad azz in both areas!!

NSX-Tuner

I've been thinking about mounting my Sony DSC-10 digital camera on the passenger seat headrest. It shoots fair .mpeg movies and with a 512 MB memory stick, I could shoot for several hours or until the battery dies. Not sure how well it will do with fast driving.

BoostedM3

sounds cool...but i gotta get this damn instrument & experiment finished or else no twisties for me.

darrinb

hes right, ls1's can dyno at around 310 stock, the only advantage u might have is gearing but they got u on the trq end

nice kill though

Red Rider

DO IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fast Gold

So let me get this straight. U have 305whp 262wtq on a 3550lbs car if not more and the Stock LS1 floored it first and then u reeled him in and at 75mph u had 6 cars on him . I dont want to be rude, but give me a break. Stock LS1's dyno anywhere between 290-310rwhp 300-320rwtq. Mine dyno'd 292rwhp 314rwtq stock with 400 miles and ran 13.4 at 106 mph stock. My car weighs 3380lbs in stock form. So lets say ur car run 13.4 at 106 mph..... To pull 6 cars to 75mph on any car u have to be more than a second faster with at least 10mph advantage in the trapspeed. There are two possibilities to your story, The guy didnt floor it, or the guy didnt floor it.

vinarnold

nice kill.

NSX-Tuner

You can say whatever you want, but I walked away. And yes, he was at WOT. I've been driving since before you were born and I know what a V8 sounds like at WOT. Granted, he may not have been a very good driver. Be that as it may, my car will walk away from a stock firebird auto whoever is driving it.

BTW - my first race in my 6sp when it was fully stock was a Z28 auto where he only slightly pulled ahead of me.

Also, you've got the weight wrong on my 6sp, it's about 100 LBS lighter and it has a lot shorter gears than the firebird auto, even the 6MT one.

It seems to me that you V8ers can't stand it when a lowly V6 3.2L takes it to one of your precious V8s. You fail to understand something else, it doesn't matter how much peak WHP and TQ a car has, it's the area under the curve that really matters. And my car's dyno number show that with the S/C and all the mods, it's WHP and TQ numbers were greatly increased throughout the entire RPM range. So you said you had your car dyno'd, let me see the official numbers, here are mine:

305 WHP, 262 FT-LBS TQ (top curve on chart)

Installed mods: CT Intake, S/C, Headers, B-pipe and Axle-back exhaust

thealliance15

Nice Kill buddy, u have a nice ass car 305 FWHP!

Fast Gold

Area under the curve huh LOL Man u crack me up. I used to have a 01 CL-S, 99 Cobra and Volvo T5-R before. I love cars in general and not a chevy fan or honda hater. I'm a car enthusiast and thats all. Now back to our topic. U dont have a better power under the curve than a stock LS1 even with the SC. My stock LS1 with 400 miles on it got 300rwtq at 2800RPM. How did u manage to save 100lbs? What did u run with car at the 1/4mile?

Here are my numbers:
1. Stock 292rwhp 313rwtq 13.6 at 106mph
2. Intake and Catback 325rwhp 336rwtq 13.0 at 109mph
3. Intake, catback and headers 348rwhp 363rwtq 12.7 at 111mph
4 intake, cutout, headers and cam 392rwhp 382rwtq 12.4 at 114mph.


Here are my numbers stock VS now :
http://www.msnusers.com/CarsRelatedG...oto&PhotoID=10

Here are all my numbers i listed above:
http://www.msnusers.com/CarsRelatedG...hoto&PhotoID=9

Fast Gold

Looking more at ur dyno against a stock LS1 dyno againt i found out this: LS1 numbers will be in ( )
RPM......................RWHP..................... .RWTQ
2500RPM..........(150) 105....................(290) 235
3000RPM..........(160) 130....................(300) 242
3500RPM..........(175) 165....................(300) 245
4000RPM..........(215) 175....................(314) 240
4500RPM..........(255) 215....................(310) 250
5000RPM..........(285) 247....................(295) 262
5500RPM..........(292) 275....................(270) 250
6000RPM..........(N/A) 280.....................(N/A) 245
6500RPM..........(N/A) 290.....................(N/A) 243
6900RPM..........(N/A) 305.....................(N/A) 235



And by the way my LS1 was a dog stock. Most LS1's dyno higher than mine stock. I think its due to the low milage when i dyno'd my car.

Fast Gold

Dont get me wrong, but ur numbers are nice...Im not taking that away from u. I just dont think u can pull 6 cars on a LS1 while he is ahead of u to 75mph. Man even with my 392rwhp 382rwtq LS1 i cant pull that off on a stock LS1. The most cars i have put on a stock LS1 at the end of the 1/4mile is like 5-6 cars while we are doing 100mph+.

typeR

id say he'll trap at 107+ why couldnt this have been an LT?

scalbert

While I do feel the guy let off as that differential is extreme for the two vehicles, there is some misunderstanding here. I only slightly pulled on an LS1 a few weeks ago and I made more power and torque than the subject vehicle (BTW, this was in my blown CL-S6). At the same time I see that some are misinterpreting the numbers supplied as singular values without weighing in gearing.

To help this scenario does anyone have the individual and final drive or the overall ratios for the LS1 F-Bodies??

NSX-Tuner

Hmmm... your stock fbird redline is 5500 RPM. This means, my 6sp will continue to 6900 RPM (rev limiter is at 7200). If you know anything about Calculus, this means there's a whole lot more area under my dyno curve after your 5500 RPM redline.

But like I said earlier, only a race will prove or disprove each of our claims. But I think a race between my SC'd 6sp and an auto fbird will be much closer than you think. I'd even say this for the fbird 6MT.

Fast Gold

The dyno operator stopped at 5500RPM. Do u want me to make up numbers to continue to the red line which is 6K RPM on a stock LS1 ? Look at the dyno sheet again

Think about what u are saying..... If what u are saying is true then a viper(peak power at 4K) should get it ass kicked from a S2000 since the S2k rev to 9K Get a clue man.

If u know anything about cars u know that when u reach the peak power of any car u shift 300-400RPM above that so u will get back to ur sweet power band. I used to shift at 5900RPM when my car was stock. Now after installing the cam i shift at 6700RPM because my peak power happens between 6000-6400RPM and my rev limiter is set at 7K.

When comparing two cars dynos, u will see that each car has a different rev limiter, but that doesnt mean the car with higher rev limiter will be faster. Man u need to think about what u are saying. And go get real times for ur car so when u say u raced a car that run mid 13's at 104-107 and smoked it by 6 cars to 75mph people will believe u. If u didnt get a time slip in the 12's at 112mph or so dont bother posting it because u are not going to smoke a LS1 by 6 cars by 75mph with him jumping first unless u run mid 12's at 112mph+

Fast Gold

Hey type R.... Since u are always running ur car at 1/4mile u have some experince right? Can u answer this question please......... Can a FWD car with less power under the curve and at least 100lbs more smoke a RWD car with better power under the curve and 100lbs less by 6 cars to 75MPH and the jump was for the RWD too ???

Fast Gold

Auto LS1's have either 2.73 and 3.23 gears. M6 LS1's have 3.42 gears only. Stock A4 LS1's still run mid 13's to high 13's at 103-105mph with no problems. Most of the A4 LS1's owners change final diver gears, but they do it to get better 60ft's not to gain MPH per hour. So gear changes doesnt affect MPH for LS1's since its power band is broad as u can see in the dyno sheet i provided.

scalbert

Do you have the individual ratios so the overall ratio can be calculated??

Fast Gold

I dont have the individual ratios.

BoostedM3

Fast google search gave me this

Automatic 2.73:1

3.06
1.63
1.00
0.70