allmotor_2000

Guys.

I took the transmission off today and have finally figured out exactly what has happened.

The stock flywheel is a dual-mass unit. In fact, the face (which the clutch disc touches) is spring-loaded to flex axially a certain amount independant to the crankshaft. There is a very good reason for this... I have learned the hard way.

Basically, there were 'chunks' of metal inside my transmission. The Comptech flywheel itself (dimensions, clearance etc.) was NOT the problem. However, because the flwheel is a single-unit, the pressure-plate cracked. By this, some of the metal pieces that is used to release the clutch snapped. This has gotten caught inside the tranny and the flywheel and subsequently damaged the CPS (and shroud) and other internal parts. The clutch and pressure-plate ($340) is not readily available. I will NOT put the broken pressure-plate onto the car as if more parts come loose, the damage will occur again and might be worse. The transmission is still usable.

So, the verdict is that while Comptech's craftsmanship and customer-service (at least so far) have been great, this design has a very huge flaw - it cannot support the torque this motor generates nor is it a robust alternative to the factory design. I have NOT tracked the car... imagine if I launched this on slicks!

Subsequently, I cannot recommend this product, because its a matter of time before something pops loose on the pressure-plate and starts creating a mess inside the transmission housing.

The reason that last night the car did not run is becuase the Comptech flywheel is damaged and not usable.

I will be contacting Comptech reagarding all this. I do not want their product any longer and could accept nothing less than a complete refund. In addition, I hope they compensate me for my new clutch/pressure-plate (which is on order) and the associated labor-cost. I am not doing this last install myself.

I am attaching a picture of the pressure-plate... you can see the damage.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/bc/gun...c=ph%26.view=t

If Comptech gives me a hard-time about this, I would appreciate any and all support this forum can give me.

I suggest those that are considering this product... NOT to purchase it. I also recommend those who have already installed the flywheel to remove it... or NEVER do a hard-shift through the life of the car!

danny25

sux that this had to be figured out the hard way by a customer of comptech. They should have done more R&D and made sure everything was right. Hope everything works out for you.

J.T.'s 3.2CL

That's bad news, sorry bro.

SiGGy

Do they have the CT flywheel installed on a SC'd vehicle?

I would expect it to exhibit the same problems.


Sorry about your troubles.

civic4982

hope it al works out for you man. That really sucks... I know everyone on the board respects that your work is always top notch. You've definitely got our support if Comptech made a fault product. Hope it all gets worked out soon and they replace everything.

I wonder who tested it before you? Their R&D car must have had similarl problems either that or the production model just came out incorrectly.

Zapata

very disappointing......

allmotor_2000

I don't think they drive the Comptech S/C'd CL-S hard - it ran a 14.4 remember!!

It's just unfortunate because this design does not qualify as a reasonable replacement for the stock flywheel - that's just the bottom line.

allmotor_2000

It's a flaw inherent to the design of the flywheel/clutch system... compared to the OEM design - it just falls short/

mc222

Sory to hear about your issues of late allmoteor - Good luck!

Zootking

I hope TypeS1967 reads this post...didnt he just install this on his car??

allmotor_2000

I think I know what Comptech is going to say. "Transferring the springs to the clutch disc from the flywheel accomplishes the same thing". It does... but not to the extent required, in my opinion.

I did some research on single-mass flywheel replacements to dual-mass flywheels. There are many more springs on the clutch-disc for vibration and to soak up some torque and the pressure-plate design is changed appropriately.

The engine stalled during a hard 1-2 shift... so it makes more sense to me that the metal piece cracked and caused all that damage immediateley.

Slimey

That's what my face looked like as I read your post.

Hopefully, Comptech will take care of you, not only for what you deserve, but for beta testing their product before a full release (they still do not have it listed on their site).

I hope they contact other people that have installed this product too, hopefully to prevent a problem.

Based on personal experience, I've been very happy with Comptech customer service. I hope they really take care of you in this time of need.

Smitty

He has been notified...


Hmmm sorry for all the mess your going through Allmotor... it must really suck, but thanks for the heads up..

Smitty

Scrib

Fuck that sucks. I really hope Comptech works with you through this. They owe it to you!!!

civic4982

Could a similar result come from the inner bolts and parts of the transmission not being torqued correctly ? Just wondering if there was another way a tranny could blow up from replacing stuff is all.

allmotor_2000

The tranny itself is fine... just the pressure-plate which damaged the flywheel and the CPS.

Trust me... its not a happy time right now!

frank828

hopefully comptech will work with you with this.

They typically are good about customer support.

SLY1TYPES

sorry to hear that it messed up your car, I would have thought comptech would have done a lot more testing to assure this crap would not happed I was really considering this, but now i don't know if i will consider comptech at all if they don't make it right with you!!!! by paying for the damage and refunding!

Kevin

ChadT

Holy Crap!! That sux bad! So the clutch disc did have springs on it I take it? Solid disc/solid flywheel would be disasterous. Is the pressure plate stock? The service manual show a procedure I've never seen before for installing a pressure plate. There is a bracket that attaches to the flywheel and pushes in on the fingers of the pressure plate. It's supposed to be used when removing and installing the pressure plate. I wonder if there is an existing high performance pressure plate that could be adapted to use with the lightweight flywheel. I've been dreaming of doing this mod ever since I heard about it. What a drag. Comptech should help you out for using you car as a test mule. There's got to be a way to make this work. Hopefully they will get figured out.

VTECPOWER

good luck and hope CT will work something out for u

types1967

that sucks allmotor sorry to hear about it.i have 6000 miles on the comptech clutch and no problemso far it kicks ass.maybe the flywheel they sent you was bad?anyway ill keep tabs on it but hope its not going to fail,i would think by now with all the hard launches i do between 1st and second and so forth something would have happened but so far im very pleased with it.well good luck and keep me posted as for what happens.again sorry to hear that.

DDT-TypeS

so hypothetically if the CT flywheel was to work 100% properly on the CLS6, what would be the benefit of installing such item? What is the drawback of our current dual mass flywheel? Couldn't CT design something strong enough for this engine?

?? I'm not a mechanic...

allmotor_2000

The gadget helps align the clutch and tighten the pressure-plate at the same time... its not necessary to use as long as you use a clutch alignment tool.

I will chat with Comptech on Monday... its not like I don't like the flywheel... I definately do - I just don't think the current setup is strong enough for this car with mods.

It's a good think Types1967 has not had any issues... maybe I am the only one - we will just have to find out. I don't like having problems when I use mods from a reputable company - if I was 'inventing' some mod (like the turbo for example)... any problem is my own seeking!

ChadT

The main benefit is a quicker reving engine due to reduced weight of the flywheel. Notice how slow the engine revs rise and fall if you give it gas in neutral? The main drawback of a dual mass flywheel is added weight and slack in the drivetrain. I would like to have the lighter one so the revs drop quicker between shifts. Seems to me a lighter flywheel would really match the character of the engine much better. Also there should be a big difference in how the car responds in 1st and 2nd gears. Not gonna do it though if the stock pressure plate can't handle it and there is not another one available. If the pressure plate is unique to this car I doubt anything else will be available. When I got a Centerforce Dual Friction clutch kit for an Audi it just had a stock pressure plate painted orange. It will be interesting to hear what Comptech says about this situation.

DDT-TypeS

thanks allmotor/chadT for the explanation...but wouldn't you think a company like Comptech would do some major R&D before releasing a product that can handle the current CLS6 setup? Sometimes I think automobile manufacturers have a great experience creating cars and if they included a dual mass flywheel, it must be for a certain reason. Perhaps due to the power of the current engine...

damn, hope you (allmotor) can get your money's worth here...my motto has always been "if it ain't broke, don't fuck with it"...but then again, my ass is not a mechanic and shit, I only do oil changes...

darrinb

wow

i wouldnt expect this from comptech

good thing i bought the obx headers!!!!








lol

Jens H.

Before we all go off the deep end let's just consider that this might just be a case of one defective flywheel not poor design etc.Since no one else has had any issues that I have been made aware of it could just be a one time failure .
I certainly hope that when CT has been given the opportunity to examine the failed parts they will make a determination as to what went wrong and if it is a faulty part that they do the right thing for Allmotor. Meantime like I have said many times before let's keep our heads folks .
Jens

ChadT

Well yes dual mass flywheels are used for a certain reason. You almost always see them on high end sport/luxury cars. They dampen a lot of vibration and absorb a lot more of the shock when the clutch is engaged. Most car nuts like myself are willing to sacrifice some quietness and soft clutch grab for a little more performance. As the CL was not built as an all-out performance machine the clutch/flywheel is designed more for the average luxury car buyer than the enthusiast. The stock clutch/flywheel is designed to have a very smooth idle and for the clutch to be smooth and easy to operate for the average driver. To me this high reving vtec motor is begging for a lighter flywheel. There are mega horsepower cars that don't have dual mass flywheels. They are not meant for performance at all. Something is up with this particular pressure plate. This should not have happened. It is definitely a different looking piece though and I would suspect that it is the weak link in the chain. I wouldn't think it would be too hard for Comptech to adapt their NSX flywheel to work with the CL. This would open up many more clutch/pressure plate options.

allmotor_2000

As I had said before, the flywheel clearances, tolerances etc. are not the issue here. One of the springs cracked and subsequently destroyed pretty much everything inside the tranny housing.

Comptech has been helpful so far in the matter... its just that I am led to believe there was some undue stress on the pressure-plate with this design. Now... it is also possible my pressure-plate might have been faulty... that I really can't determine. I just hope Comptech doesn't come back with "Well, you must have broken the pressure-plate during the install of the flywheel". If its a defective pressure-plate... I can't take it to Acura either!! This puts me between a rock and a hard-place. I can't quite imagine the issue being a defective pressure-plate.

I was pretty clear in my message to Comptech that this is an unfortunate situation and I just want it resolved (at this time, putting the stock flywheel back on is what I would like to do) without any more significant expense on my part. Plus, I don't want to sit on a $900 flywheel that is useless to me! On top of that, I have to buy a brand-new clutch/pressure-plate and pay for the associated labor - its right around $1500 already. Plus, I haven't had a car to drive for nearly a week and I don't see it back to me for the rest of this week either.

I am not ripping on Comptech... just that based on this experience, I don't feel this product qualifies as a suitable replacement (performance enhancing replacement) for the OEM design.

Trust me... I LOVED the performance gains of the flywheel. I was pretty much one week from taking it to the track on slicks and I am positive it would have hit a 13.2 E.T or better NA. If anything I am glad this happened now rather than on the track with slicks as the damage would probably have been much worse... or if it happened at 80-100mph... well, you know what happens then.

cusdaddy

Sorry to hear about this! I hope Comptech owns up to this and makes it right

Quick question: I know with the Z which I am more familiar about the lightweight flywheels, the performance gains are negligable, even with the 14lb flywheel (stock is close to 30lbs). Did the Comptech flywheel really improve acceleration or just improve the throttle response and make rev matching quicker and easier? Is the stock unit on the CLS much heavier than the Comptech unit?

Smitty

oh yeah...YES!!!
Much heavier from my understanding....

darrinb

all this clutch and fly wheels talk, i want a 6 speed

civic4982

13.2 from 13.9 with the flywheel? woah! that's a bit tough to believe, why expecting of .7 sec quickre?

mattg

he's done more than just the clutch/flywheel.

Chemmech

Wow! Great times!!!

civic4982

ahhh... what new toys do youhave on since the last run allmotor?

allmotor_2000

Looks like the clutch/pressure-plate is on National Back Order from Honda!!

CLS2001_97124

Sorry to hear that... Time for CT to pay up for a nice loaner.

hughesne

Tell me something i didnt know My belief is that they've had a few complaints, me being one, and they are fixing something, im gonna be looking at my invoice like a hawk to see if the part #'s are different. My car has been in the shop for 8 days and probably will be for a few more weeks. I got a pimp as cavalier loaner though. :ghey:

New Image

bringing a thread back from the dead. what was the outcome of this situation?