Back from the Dyno ("mystery mod")
#81
Lead Footed
Originally posted by Mike:
<STRONG>exactly what he wants guys
</STRONG>
<STRONG>exactly what he wants guys
</STRONG>
LOL
RUF
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by RUF87:
<STRONG>Taking a look at the stock TLS' chart I noticed that there is a big jump in the HP and a nice one in the torque at around 5750RPM.
Does anyone have any insight as to why that is so? Just curious.
RUF</STRONG>
<STRONG>Taking a look at the stock TLS' chart I noticed that there is a big jump in the HP and a nice one in the torque at around 5750RPM.
Does anyone have any insight as to why that is so? Just curious.
RUF</STRONG>
#83
Happy CL-S Pilot
Originally posted by RUF87:
<STRONG>Taking a look at the stock TLS' chart I noticed that there is a big jump in the HP and a nice one in the torque at around 5750RPM.
Does anyone have any insight as to why that is so? Just curious.
RUF</STRONG>
<STRONG>Taking a look at the stock TLS' chart I noticed that there is a big jump in the HP and a nice one in the torque at around 5750RPM.
Does anyone have any insight as to why that is so? Just curious.
RUF</STRONG>
VTEC engaging the hot cams.
#84
Has anyone yet conjectured that the 'Mystery Mod" might be some kind of device to advance timing physically rather than by a chip, like a relocation of the timing sensor to an external wheel.
I am assuming that the crank position sensor works of of a Hall Effect? Is that right?
I am assuming that the crank position sensor works of of a Hall Effect? Is that right?
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Pull_T:
<STRONG>Has anyone yet conjectured that the 'Mystery Mod" might be some kind of device to advance timing physically rather than by a chip, like a relocation of the timing sensor to an external wheel.
I am assuming that the crank position sensor works of of a Hall Effect? </STRONG>
<STRONG>Has anyone yet conjectured that the 'Mystery Mod" might be some kind of device to advance timing physically rather than by a chip, like a relocation of the timing sensor to an external wheel.
I am assuming that the crank position sensor works of of a Hall Effect? </STRONG>
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: RedLineTypeS ]
#86
Sold 12/29/04 :-(
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Pull_T,
I just recently realized that I will need to start looking for better gripping tires. Can you tell me if you got the 1.998 60'times with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s? If you did I am buying them.
Thanks
I just recently realized that I will need to start looking for better gripping tires. Can you tell me if you got the 1.998 60'times with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s? If you did I am buying them.
Thanks
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by SFLA_Type-S:
<STRONG>Hey Pull_T,
I just recently realized that I will need to start looking for better gripping tires. Can you tell me if you got the 1.998 60'times with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s? If you did I am buying them.
Thanks </STRONG>
<STRONG>Hey Pull_T,
I just recently realized that I will need to start looking for better gripping tires. Can you tell me if you got the 1.998 60'times with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s? If you did I am buying them.
Thanks </STRONG>
#88
Originally posted by SFLA_Type-S:
<STRONG>Hey Pull_T,
I just recently realized that I will need to start looking for better gripping tires. Can you tell me if you got the 1.998 60'times with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s? If you did I am buying them.
Thanks </STRONG>
<STRONG>Hey Pull_T,
I just recently realized that I will need to start looking for better gripping tires. Can you tell me if you got the 1.998 60'times with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s? If you did I am buying them.
Thanks </STRONG>
Like the sig says, they are highly recommended. From my experience, they are about as good as it gets for 60' for a "regular" street tire. Drop that psi to 24-25 (for you fwd'ers, about 26-27), one quick spin to clean them off and boom, they hook really well.
They are about as good as any other tire I have tried in the categories of road noise, wet traction and tread wear. They also have a great looking tread pattern and are SUPER CHEAP, I think I paid $118 a tire for my size.
#89
Originally posted by RedLineTypeS:
<STRONG>
I dont think any other type is/can be used with DIS systems... ? Obviously ignoring magnetic (ancient) to sense notches in the crank... Is that right? right?
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: RedLineTypeS ]</STRONG>
<STRONG>
I dont think any other type is/can be used with DIS systems... ? Obviously ignoring magnetic (ancient) to sense notches in the crank... Is that right? right?
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: RedLineTypeS ]</STRONG>
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Pull_T:
<STRONG>
I may be stupid here since I am not totally familiar, but the "ancient" method is exactly how I change timing in my car. Are you saying that the CL doesn't have the notch system with a magnetic sensor or that it isn't feasible?</STRONG>
<STRONG>
I may be stupid here since I am not totally familiar, but the "ancient" method is exactly how I change timing in my car. Are you saying that the CL doesn't have the notch system with a magnetic sensor or that it isn't feasible?</STRONG>
#91
Sold 12/29/04 :-(
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THANKS FOR THE INFO
I was thinking of getting the Toyo Proxes T1S, but from what you're telling me I will go with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s. 1.998 is very impressive for a street tire. Thanks again
I was thinking of getting the Toyo Proxes T1S, but from what you're telling me I will go with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s. 1.998 is very impressive for a street tire. Thanks again
originally posted by Pull_T:
Yes, they are. I have the stock size (for my car) 245/45/17.
Like the sig says, they are highly recommended. From my experience, they are about as good as it gets for 60' for a "regular" street tire. Drop that psi to 24-25 (for you fwd'ers, about 26-27), one quick spin to clean them off and boom, they hook really well.
They are about as good as any other tire I have tried in the categories of road noise, wet traction and tread wear. They also have a great looking tread pattern and are SUPER CHEAP, I think I paid $118 a tire for my size.
Yes, they are. I have the stock size (for my car) 245/45/17.
Like the sig says, they are highly recommended. From my experience, they are about as good as it gets for 60' for a "regular" street tire. Drop that psi to 24-25 (for you fwd'ers, about 26-27), one quick spin to clean them off and boom, they hook really well.
They are about as good as any other tire I have tried in the categories of road noise, wet traction and tread wear. They also have a great looking tread pattern and are SUPER CHEAP, I think I paid $118 a tire for my size.
#92
Originally posted by SFLA_Type-S:
<STRONG>THANKS FOR THE INFO
I was thinking of getting the Toyo Proxes T1S, but from what you're telling me I will go with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s. 1.998 is very impressive for a street tire. Thanks again
</STRONG>
<STRONG>THANKS FOR THE INFO
I was thinking of getting the Toyo Proxes T1S, but from what you're telling me I will go with the Kuhmo ECSTA Supra 712s. 1.998 is very impressive for a street tire. Thanks again
</STRONG>
#93
Lead Footed
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk:
<STRONG>
VTEC engaging the hot cams.</STRONG>
<STRONG>
VTEC engaging the hot cams.</STRONG>
I thought that VTEC kicked in at 4700 or so. Are you saying that perhaps this is when the full effect of the cam profile kicks in?
RUF
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by RUF87:
<STRONG>
I thought that VTEC kicked in at 4700 or so. Are you saying that perhaps this is when the full effect of the cam profile kicks in?
RUF</STRONG>
<STRONG>
I thought that VTEC kicked in at 4700 or so. Are you saying that perhaps this is when the full effect of the cam profile kicks in?
RUF</STRONG>
#95
DAMN!!! is he running a 200 shot of NOS or is this a joke?.. i have a feeling this mod is some sort of a computer tweak . for the money, the ease of install and the numbers, i havent seen any hardware mods that would qualify ... (i dont suppose its an ultra-cheap Tesla turbine powered turbo? )... damn cant wait.. whats the word on J30 engines? .. i would love to see numbers for a V6 accord
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Fiddler ]
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Fiddler ]
#96
Lead Footed
Originally posted by RedLineTypeS:
<STRONG>
Dual Stage intake (IMRC) opens at 4800 .. Vtec kix in around 5500 or so .. and We have one cam per head .. "hot lobes" not hot cams</STRONG>
<STRONG>
Dual Stage intake (IMRC) opens at 4800 .. Vtec kix in around 5500 or so .. and We have one cam per head .. "hot lobes" not hot cams</STRONG>
RUF
#98
Originally posted by RUF87:
<STRONG>
Thanks for the feedback RedLineTypeS.
RUF</STRONG>
<STRONG>
Thanks for the feedback RedLineTypeS.
RUF</STRONG>
#100
Sold 12/29/04 :-(
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Fiddler:
DAMN!!! is he running a 200 shot of NOS or is this a joke?..
DAMN!!! is he running a 200 shot of NOS or is this a joke?..
The horsepower numbers are on the left side of the chart & the green line represents (282.2HP @ 6200RPM)
Then on the right side are the torque numbers. The black line represents (248.1 lb/ft of torque "peak" @5000 RPM)
I hope this was a little helpful
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: SFLA_Type-S ]
#104
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 54
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by NSXNEXT:
<STRONG>How about a new fuel rail or distributorless ignition?</STRONG>
<STRONG>How about a new fuel rail or distributorless ignition?</STRONG>
We already have an excellent DIS with a coil at each plug.
#105
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by scalbert:
<STRONG>
A fuel rail would be helpful only if the stock one can't flow enough fuel starving the engine and causing a lean condition. That is not currently the case.
We already have an excellent DIS with a coil at each plug.</STRONG>
<STRONG>
A fuel rail would be helpful only if the stock one can't flow enough fuel starving the engine and causing a lean condition. That is not currently the case.
We already have an excellent DIS with a coil at each plug.</STRONG>
I did find a few pages where people got temporary gains from dropping or raising the fuel rail (to modify the fuel-air ratio) at WOT; some cars run rich, other lean.
A lot of the people seemed to comment about how the "car's computer/brain", adjusted for the different O2 readings from the exhaust sensor after a period of time. It seems that most of the newer OBDII systems have our "I'm going to readjust your fuel mixture to what I want 'thing'" going on...
#106
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 54
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As mentioned, we need to look at what adds power to possibly get an insight on what this might be.
To gain power you can make the engine breathe easier. Increasing the displacement also helps. Or you can artificially increase the displacement through forced induction. Other simple ways are to advance the timing and/or recalibrate the fueling maps. Changing the valve timing can be of help. And then you can fully balance and lighten the internals. Excluding nitrous, those are primarily it with all of the sub-categories falling into their respective groups.
In the breathing area the simple ways are through a freer flowing intake and exhaust. These certainly give more power but this was mentioned to have been added to a car with these items already installed. You could work the heads and/or manifold but this is beyond the simple install.
Increasing displacement is out the window since it was shown to work on a stock 3.2L engine and well past the dollars amount.
Forced induction is also more costly than mentioned.
Changing the valve timing would take longer than 5 minutes and is probably out of the scope of work for most people.
Engine work is also out for the obvious reasons.
So where are we left... IMO, I feel that it will be someway to alter either the ignition timing and/or the fuel maps.
The ignition could be altered through a re-located prox sensor (mag pick-up, CPK, you pick your name). This could be made easy and a simple swap if manufactured correctly. A general rule of thumb is that you can pick up 1 - 2 HP per degree advance in timing. There may be 10 degrees advance capability in there, remember syncivic did stress that they were running 93 octane which would be needed.
The other area could be a piggy-back computer or even a reprogrammed PCM. These could also alter the timing maps but also the fuel tables.
But in either case, both could fall into the 5 minute install by anyone and could potentially yield these gains at the price mentioned.
Just a thought.
To gain power you can make the engine breathe easier. Increasing the displacement also helps. Or you can artificially increase the displacement through forced induction. Other simple ways are to advance the timing and/or recalibrate the fueling maps. Changing the valve timing can be of help. And then you can fully balance and lighten the internals. Excluding nitrous, those are primarily it with all of the sub-categories falling into their respective groups.
In the breathing area the simple ways are through a freer flowing intake and exhaust. These certainly give more power but this was mentioned to have been added to a car with these items already installed. You could work the heads and/or manifold but this is beyond the simple install.
Increasing displacement is out the window since it was shown to work on a stock 3.2L engine and well past the dollars amount.
Forced induction is also more costly than mentioned.
Changing the valve timing would take longer than 5 minutes and is probably out of the scope of work for most people.
Engine work is also out for the obvious reasons.
So where are we left... IMO, I feel that it will be someway to alter either the ignition timing and/or the fuel maps.
The ignition could be altered through a re-located prox sensor (mag pick-up, CPK, you pick your name). This could be made easy and a simple swap if manufactured correctly. A general rule of thumb is that you can pick up 1 - 2 HP per degree advance in timing. There may be 10 degrees advance capability in there, remember syncivic did stress that they were running 93 octane which would be needed.
The other area could be a piggy-back computer or even a reprogrammed PCM. These could also alter the timing maps but also the fuel tables.
But in either case, both could fall into the 5 minute install by anyone and could potentially yield these gains at the price mentioned.
Just a thought.
#107
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by EricL:
<STRONG>
A lot of the people seemed to comment about how the "car's computer/brain", adjusted for the different O2 readings from the exhaust sensor after a period of time. It seems that most of the newer OBDII systems have our "I'm going to readjust your fuel mixture to what I want 'thing'" going on...</STRONG>
<STRONG>
A lot of the people seemed to comment about how the "car's computer/brain", adjusted for the different O2 readings from the exhaust sensor after a period of time. It seems that most of the newer OBDII systems have our "I'm going to readjust your fuel mixture to what I want 'thing'" going on...</STRONG>
#108
Suzuka Master
Steve -- with all of the "parameter" changing -- the install time was 25 minutes, then 5 minutes, etc. it gets to be a true guessing game as to exactly "what" the "mystery" mod is.
This is the where the "genius" of this comes in...
Being curious creatures with EGOS the size of the planet, it makes for great marketing.
At this point, is there anyone around who doesn't know about this mod?
And how much did the marketing cost – ZERO!!!
Now that's using one's brain!
(I really am taking notes...)
This is the where the "genius" of this comes in...
Being curious creatures with EGOS the size of the planet, it makes for great marketing.
At this point, is there anyone around who doesn't know about this mod?
And how much did the marketing cost – ZERO!!!
Now that's using one's brain!
(I really am taking notes...)
#109
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 54
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by EricL:
<STRONG>
A lot of the people seemed to comment about how the "car's computer/brain", adjusted for the different O2 readings from the exhaust sensor after a period of time. It seems that most of the newer OBDII systems have our "I'm going to readjust your fuel mixture to what I want 'thing'" going on...</STRONG>
<STRONG>
A lot of the people seemed to comment about how the "car's computer/brain", adjusted for the different O2 readings from the exhaust sensor after a period of time. It seems that most of the newer OBDII systems have our "I'm going to readjust your fuel mixture to what I want 'thing'" going on...</STRONG>
Next the PCM starts adjusting the long term fuel trim (LTFT) to try and bring the STFT back to 0%. I don't recall which value is used first after the base injector pulse width is determined. It is fun to watch these values try and catch up when you make changes through fuel pressure adjustments or by modifying input signals.
But as you can see if the STFT goes to the +% you have encountered a lean condition. If it goes -% you have gone a little rich. These values are constantly being updated and can 'trim' out user adjustment in minutes or less.
BTW, to those who used to work with some 80's domestics, this is the nearly the same thing as the older BLMs (block learn modes) but much more standardized and advanced.
#110
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 54
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by EricL:
<STRONG>Steve -- with all of the "parameter" changing -- the install time was 25 minutes, then 5 minutes, etc. it gets to be a true guessing game as to exactly "what" the "mystery" mod is.
</STRONG>
<STRONG>Steve -- with all of the "parameter" changing -- the install time was 25 minutes, then 5 minutes, etc. it gets to be a true guessing game as to exactly "what" the "mystery" mod is.
</STRONG>
#111
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by RAdams:
<STRONG>
All OBDII-equipped cars do this. It's called fuel trim. There are both short and long term "changes" it makes to the fuel delivery that keeps it within the acceptable emissions levels while adapting to the way you drive the car. You can monitor (but not alter) these values using any of the available-for-end-user OBDII diagnostic equipment or, of course, with the ultra-cool but somewhat more spendy Honda PGM-FI tester.</STRONG>
<STRONG>
All OBDII-equipped cars do this. It's called fuel trim. There are both short and long term "changes" it makes to the fuel delivery that keeps it within the acceptable emissions levels while adapting to the way you drive the car. You can monitor (but not alter) these values using any of the available-for-end-user OBDII diagnostic equipment or, of course, with the ultra-cool but somewhat more spendy Honda PGM-FI tester.</STRONG>
Yep, you are CORRECT...
There are some OBDII diagnostic products (from 3rd parties) that DO allow people to change the internal mapping of fuel-air and timing. However, they don't make one for our car.
#113
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: where the weather suits my clothes
Age: 55
Posts: 27,921
Received 1,080 Likes
on
661 Posts
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk:
<STRONG>distibutor less ignition, we have a coil-over a spark plugs system
Fuel rail? how does't improve performance?</STRONG>
<STRONG>distibutor less ignition, we have a coil-over a spark plugs system
Fuel rail? how does't improve performance?</STRONG>
#114
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: off the Dumbarton bridge
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scalbert,
Glad to have you back. Still one of the most informed and mature members of this board.
How much do you think gains would change if lesser octane (91 here in CA) were to be used assuming that the mod is a remapping of sorts? I know this is a stupid question since we have no idea what the mod is but I had to ask.
Andy
Glad to have you back. Still one of the most informed and mature members of this board.
How much do you think gains would change if lesser octane (91 here in CA) were to be used assuming that the mod is a remapping of sorts? I know this is a stupid question since we have no idea what the mod is but I had to ask.
Andy
#115
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by AndyN aka CLTypeS:
<STRONG>Scalbert,
Glad to have you back. Still one of the most informed and mature members of this board.
How much do you think gains would change if lesser octane (91 here in CA) were to be used assuming that the mod is a remapping of sorts? I know this is a stupid question since we have no idea what the mod is but I had to ask.
Andy</STRONG>
<STRONG>Scalbert,
Glad to have you back. Still one of the most informed and mature members of this board.
How much do you think gains would change if lesser octane (91 here in CA) were to be used assuming that the mod is a remapping of sorts? I know this is a stupid question since we have no idea what the mod is but I had to ask.
Andy</STRONG>
All that I'm saying is our gas in not what it used to be.
BTW -- The TLS specs on the Acura site (www.acura.com) say the TLS requires 92 octane...
#116
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: where the weather suits my clothes
Age: 55
Posts: 27,921
Received 1,080 Likes
on
661 Posts
I would hope that our engines are not so finicky that they could tell the difference between 91 and 92 octane.
I suspect they just bought really cheap gas, half gas/half ?????
I suspect they just bought really cheap gas, half gas/half ?????
#117
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 54
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by AndyN aka CLTypeS:
<STRONG>
How much do you think gains would change if lesser octane (91 here in CA) were to be used assuming that the mod is a remapping of sorts? I know this is a stupid question since we have no idea what the mod is but I had to ask.
</STRONG>
<STRONG>
How much do you think gains would change if lesser octane (91 here in CA) were to be used assuming that the mod is a remapping of sorts? I know this is a stupid question since we have no idea what the mod is but I had to ask.
</STRONG>
The chance of hitting mild detonation would be increase with the lower octane. When knock is 'heard' by the PCM the base timing is pulled back. This is normally more than what would be required, usually defined as KR (knock retard). If this KR is more than the timing advancement then no gains are had and a little power maybe lost.
But the only way to tell would be to watch the PCM data with a lower octane gas. Remember, there are many attributes that lead to deto. Run a lower octane in cold weather without experiencing knock and you get even more power (more BTUs in the lower octanes).
But run this lower octane with advanced timing in the summer, when stuck in traffic (road temps up to 140 degrees where a CAI is ingesting) and there may be significant KR to the point of loosing power beyond what would be attained without the advance.
#118
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 54
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by EricL:
<STRONG>
One member who put in a couple of gallons of high-test (100-octane 76) got the pinging to go away.
</STRONG>
<STRONG>
One member who put in a couple of gallons of high-test (100-octane 76) got the pinging to go away.
</STRONG>
Maybe time to look into a scan tool before messing with the timing...
#119
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by NSXNEXT:
<STRONG>I would hope that our engines are not so finicky that they could tell the difference between 91 and 92 octane.
I suspect they just bought really cheap gas, half gas/half ?????</STRONG>
<STRONG>I would hope that our engines are not so finicky that they could tell the difference between 91 and 92 octane.
I suspect they just bought really cheap gas, half gas/half ?????</STRONG>
(The TLS says -- I want 92, the CLS says I want 91...)
The exercise in "bumping" the octane up, was more of a "diagnostic" to help the dealer. It was just my feeling that the more info is better than less info.
I've talked to a few of my friends with Audis, Maximas, and others who "think" that their cars don't feel quite as peppy (who knows???)
I do know that 91-octane California gas should be not considered to be "identical" to 91-octane out-of-state gas...
#120
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: off the Dumbarton bridge
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by EricL:
<STRONG>
I do know that 91-octane California gas should be not considered to be "identical" to 91-octane out-of-state gas...</STRONG>
<STRONG>
I do know that 91-octane California gas should be not considered to be "identical" to 91-octane out-of-state gas...</STRONG>
Gotta love politicians.