another successful vsa delete!
#41
ASM I.S. Design FTW.
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Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai
OK since it is so stupid, explain to us why ACURA would have wasted their time and money by designing the system the way they did........after all since they didn't really need it and the car is safter according to the poster of that crap..........
i am sure acura would LOVE your insight after all you are sooooooooo much smarter
i am sure acura would LOVE your insight after all you are sooooooooo much smarter
#42
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Originally Posted by gc86
For all you idiots who are defending the removal of VSA, this mod is for enthusiast who would like to make the most power by deleting any unnessesary restriction. And YeuEmMaiMai why the fuck do you think the 6spd CL-S doesn't come with VSA? leave your useless comments and worries to yourself. This is a informative thread on how to remove a annoying traction control system that a real driver doesnt need, not a "why would acura put it on there if its so horrible" thread.
P.S. I'm thinking about ripping my rear rotors off...I still have front brakes...and I'm a real driver I don't need back brakes...I think acura was stupid putting them on there in the first place I think I will gain a .001 sec in the quarter mile with the weight I save on no rear brakes.
#43
Suzuka Master
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Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai
OK since it is so stupid, explain to us why ACURA would have wasted their time and money by designing the system the way they did........after all since they didn't really need it and the car is safter according to the poster of that crap..........
i am sure acura would LOVE your insight after all you are sooooooooo much smarter
i am sure acura would LOVE your insight after all you are sooooooooo much smarter
#44
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
have you ever looked at the 6spd engine bay? you might notice there is no VSA throttle body. so yes, acura DID correct themselves and realized it wasn't completely necessary. now next time you want to insult me you better have something to back it up.
2007 TL and TL-S
Both the TL and TL Type-S feature 4-wheel disc brakes with Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist, an anti-lock braking system (ABS) and 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with Traction Control System (TCS) as standard equipment
Anti-lock Braking System
Standard on the TL is a three-channel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), which works in conjunction with the Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) system. Utilizing speed sensors located at each wheel, the system modulates braking power to the front wheels independently and to the rear wheels in tandem-enhancing driver control during maximum-effort stops. For 2007, a new ABS modulator improves response time and reduces noise when operating.
VEHICLE STABILITY ASSIST™ (VSA®)
The TL is equipped with 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) that helps the driver retain control of the car in the event the vehicle reaches its dynamic traction limits. For example, this may occur through aggressive cornering, encountering ice or dirt on the road, or entering a decreasing-radius corner too fast.
In the event of understeer, the system can apply the inside front and rear brakes to increase yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to complete the turn. Engine torque may also be reduced by coordination of the Drive-by-Wire Throttle System™ and powertrain control module.
The 4-channel system controls all four brakes independently. In the event of oversteer (where the rear tires lose grip), the system can apply the outside front and rear brakes to decrease yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to stay on its intended path.
An indicator light on the instrument panel alerts the driver whenever the VSA system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability.
The traction control component of VSA uses sensors that monitor each of the wheels and a computer-controlled modulation of engine power and front brakes to help prevent wheel spin when starting out or accelerating. If the sensors detect wheel spin, traction control reduces engine power and applies brake force to the affected wheels. This helps the TL maintain traction during acceleration and helps the driver retain steering control, even when accelerating on slippery surfaces.
A cockpit switch is provided to disable the vehicle stability and traction control aspects of the system while leaving the ABS system fully functional.
Holy crap...you mean you don't have to remove it?!?!? WOW!!!
#45
Suzuka Master
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Originally Posted by cbusAcuracls
Acura still puts VSA on their models...so how did they correct themselves?
2007 TL and TL-S
Both the TL and TL Type-S feature 4-wheel disc brakes with Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist, an anti-lock braking system (ABS) and 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with Traction Control System (TCS) as standard equipment
Anti-lock Braking System
Standard on the TL is a three-channel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), which works in conjunction with the Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) system. Utilizing speed sensors located at each wheel, the system modulates braking power to the front wheels independently and to the rear wheels in tandem-enhancing driver control during maximum-effort stops. For 2007, a new ABS modulator improves response time and reduces noise when operating.
VEHICLE STABILITY ASSIST™ (VSA®)
The TL is equipped with 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) that helps the driver retain control of the car in the event the vehicle reaches its dynamic traction limits. For example, this may occur through aggressive cornering, encountering ice or dirt on the road, or entering a decreasing-radius corner too fast.
In the event of understeer, the system can apply the inside front and rear brakes to increase yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to complete the turn. Engine torque may also be reduced by coordination of the Drive-by-Wire Throttle System™ and powertrain control module.
The 4-channel system controls all four brakes independently. In the event of oversteer (where the rear tires lose grip), the system can apply the outside front and rear brakes to decrease yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to stay on its intended path.
An indicator light on the instrument panel alerts the driver whenever the VSA system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability.
The traction control component of VSA uses sensors that monitor each of the wheels and a computer-controlled modulation of engine power and front brakes to help prevent wheel spin when starting out or accelerating. If the sensors detect wheel spin, traction control reduces engine power and applies brake force to the affected wheels. This helps the TL maintain traction during acceleration and helps the driver retain steering control, even when accelerating on slippery surfaces.
A cockpit switch is provided to disable the vehicle stability and traction control aspects of the system while leaving the ABS system fully functional.
Holy crap...you mean you don't have to remove it?!?!? WOW!!!
2007 TL and TL-S
Both the TL and TL Type-S feature 4-wheel disc brakes with Electronic Brake force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist, an anti-lock braking system (ABS) and 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with Traction Control System (TCS) as standard equipment
Anti-lock Braking System
Standard on the TL is a three-channel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), which works in conjunction with the Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) system. Utilizing speed sensors located at each wheel, the system modulates braking power to the front wheels independently and to the rear wheels in tandem-enhancing driver control during maximum-effort stops. For 2007, a new ABS modulator improves response time and reduces noise when operating.
VEHICLE STABILITY ASSIST™ (VSA®)
The TL is equipped with 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) that helps the driver retain control of the car in the event the vehicle reaches its dynamic traction limits. For example, this may occur through aggressive cornering, encountering ice or dirt on the road, or entering a decreasing-radius corner too fast.
In the event of understeer, the system can apply the inside front and rear brakes to increase yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to complete the turn. Engine torque may also be reduced by coordination of the Drive-by-Wire Throttle System™ and powertrain control module.
The 4-channel system controls all four brakes independently. In the event of oversteer (where the rear tires lose grip), the system can apply the outside front and rear brakes to decrease yaw, slowing the vehicle and enabling it to stay on its intended path.
An indicator light on the instrument panel alerts the driver whenever the VSA system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability.
The traction control component of VSA uses sensors that monitor each of the wheels and a computer-controlled modulation of engine power and front brakes to help prevent wheel spin when starting out or accelerating. If the sensors detect wheel spin, traction control reduces engine power and applies brake force to the affected wheels. This helps the TL maintain traction during acceleration and helps the driver retain steering control, even when accelerating on slippery surfaces.
A cockpit switch is provided to disable the vehicle stability and traction control aspects of the system while leaving the ABS system fully functional.
Holy crap...you mean you don't have to remove it?!?!? WOW!!!
#46
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
excuse me when i say this, but you are a fucking moron. have you read a single thing i posted? this ENTIRE THREAD is about an ADDITIONAL THROTTLE BODY as PART of the entire VSA system. acura NO LONGER USES a second throttle body in their VSA system. seriously dude, you have no reading comprehension.
#47
ASM I.S. Design FTW.
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Originally Posted by cbusAcuracls
I read post #34...and I agree with everyone else....your the moron. I am surely glad you don't work for honda/acura. Have fun ghetto rigging your car. peace
Clean, don't even bother with this idiot or the prior one for that matter. obviously they have no clue what they're talking about.
#49
Well...it's kinda fast...
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This thread is great. Please correct me if I'm wrong (happens all the time), but I would imagine the CLS-6 didn't have the VSA/addt'l TB because it already had a mechanical traction system in the form of a LSD.
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LSD is just there for the driving enthusiast, thats not really a form of traction control even though it would prob save you if you were going all out in the turn.
#51
Lead Footed
Originally Posted by CleanCL
excuse me when i say this, but you are a , have you read a single thing i posted? this ENTIRE THREAD is about an ADDITIONAL THROTTLE BODY as PART of the entire VSA system. acura NO LONGER USES a second throttle body in their VSA system. seriously dude, you have no reading comprehension.
Anyway, most computer control systems are designed to reduce some of the risks most, not all drivers face when pushing their cars to the limit. Many new cars produce more power than the average driver can handle, so while I suspect many of us on this forum can push and handle our cars at those limits, we would mostly benefit from such technology in emergency situations. Personally, I prefer controlling the car and not the other way around.
There have been many articles written by auto enthusiasts where they have taken a car through its paces and were able to produce better track times with these systems disabled. Only a few, such as a slalom on a wet course has ABS and traction control helped.
Ruf
#52
Read through the thread, I don't see what the problem is removing the VSA throttle body, considering the remainder of the system is still active and operational if VSA is required. It's just one of those things that someone would do if they're just trying to milk every last bit of performance out of their ride. I personally wouldn't do it. All I gotta say is to each his own. Also, the fact that Acura doesn't use the additional throttle body is pretty interesting, thanks for the info.
#53
on top of removing the extra tb i have also taken out my passenger seat, center console, and cdplayer. now my ride is super dope fast!!! my next mod is to somehow make the car remote controlled. i cant have it rolling around with that extra 200lbs in the drivers seat
#55
READ THIS POST CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU SPOUT OFF SOME STUPID RESPONSE.
I don't think that anyone is going to dispute the fact that a PROFESSIONAL driver can get a car without any kind of driver aids around a track faster than a car with drive aids. Just a guess but I don't think that anyone on here is a professional driver and couldn't consistently get their car close to the limit on a race track. Just a guess. Ferrari has a new system out with a RACE future with watered down driver aids but it left the average driver get within 5 seconds of a professional driver on a 1 1/2 minute course; couldn't get within 10 seconds without em.
HA. I think that an LSD would help anyone get the power down, not just “driving enthusiasts.” These FWD cars now days are making so much power that an LSD is almost necessary to put all that power down.
I saved my favorite bit for last. So the 6-speeds didn't have this VSA throttle body, okay. But they did have it on the autos... Huh, I wonder why that is. All you sallys clamoring on about being "real drivers" and "this mod is for enthusiasts" is the stupidest thing I have heard since I thought you idiots were actually removing the entire VSA. I know, I know I am an idiot for not understanding exactly what you were doing. Just the title VSA delete is slightly confusing.
Anyone who is doing this "mod" has an AT and I don't think that anyone with an AT can call themselves an "enthusiast" in terms of getting the most out of their cars. In fact I can't think of a anything that would inhibit a good racecar more.
I know that all you AT drivers out there who claim to be "enthusiasts" will take offense to^^^but that's a fact. If you really want to get the most out of your cars get a MT.
A word to the wise: it's you're a moron, not your a moron. Writing it as "your" proves the other person right.
Originally Posted by RUF87
There have been many articles written by auto enthusiasts where they have taken a car through its paces and were able to produce better track times with these systems disabled. Only a few, such as a slalom on a wet course has ABS and traction control helped.
Originally Posted by gc86
LSD is just there for the driving enthusiast
I saved my favorite bit for last. So the 6-speeds didn't have this VSA throttle body, okay. But they did have it on the autos... Huh, I wonder why that is. All you sallys clamoring on about being "real drivers" and "this mod is for enthusiasts" is the stupidest thing I have heard since I thought you idiots were actually removing the entire VSA. I know, I know I am an idiot for not understanding exactly what you were doing. Just the title VSA delete is slightly confusing.
Anyone who is doing this "mod" has an AT and I don't think that anyone with an AT can call themselves an "enthusiast" in terms of getting the most out of their cars. In fact I can't think of a anything that would inhibit a good racecar more.
I know that all you AT drivers out there who claim to be "enthusiasts" will take offense to^^^but that's a fact. If you really want to get the most out of your cars get a MT.
A word to the wise: it's you're a moron, not your a moron. Writing it as "your" proves the other person right.
#56
140,000 miles young
Louie11 - since you actually pulled it off. Have u experienced what the car's VSA activity feels like now that the secondary TB is off? If not, perhaps you might take a few slides in a parking lot or something and see how it kicks in/what kind of assistance it gives you and if it's noticeably different from how it reacts with the TB in place. This is the real question that needs to be answered.
#57
Suzuka Master
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Originally Posted by underst8
Louie11 - since you actually pulled it off. Have u experienced what the car's VSA activity feels like now that the secondary TB is off? If not, perhaps you might take a few slides in a parking lot or something and see how it kicks in/what kind of assistance it gives you and if it's noticeably different from how it reacts with the TB in place. This is the real question that needs to be answered.
#58
140,000 miles young
cleancl i actually have been watching this thread the whole way through and reading each post. Everyone is arguing over the supposed benefits or drawbacks to this mod, when what I'd like to know, and what would shut all the bickering up, is if you start sliding in a CL with the VSA TB installed and with it removed, will the car have the same reaction. IE - does removing the TB have any noticeable affect on the VSA function since it is still cutting fuel, etc...Not the same damn question over and over, im interested in the real impact, not the arguments.
#59
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by fish008
READ THIS POST CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU SPOUT OFF SOME STUPID RESPONSE.
I don't think that anyone is going to dispute the fact that a PROFESSIONAL driver can get a car without any kind of driver aids around a track faster than a car with drive aids. Just a guess but I don't think that anyone on here is a professional driver and couldn't consistently get their car close to the limit on a race track. Just a guess. Ferrari has a new system out with a RACE future with watered down driver aids but it left the average driver get within 5 seconds of a professional driver on a 1 1/2 minute course; couldn't get within 10 seconds without em.
HA. I think that an LSD would help anyone get the power down, not just “driving enthusiasts.” These FWD cars now days are making so much power that an LSD is almost necessary to put all that power down.
I saved my favorite bit for last. So the 6-speeds didn't have this VSA throttle body, okay. But they did have it on the autos... Huh, I wonder why that is. All you sallys clamoring on about being "real drivers" and "this mod is for enthusiasts" is the stupidest thing I have heard since I thought you idiots were actually removing the entire VSA. I know, I know I am an idiot for not understanding exactly what you were doing. Just the title VSA delete is slightly confusing.
Anyone who is doing this "mod" has an AT and I don't think that anyone with an AT can call themselves an "enthusiast" in terms of getting the most out of their cars. In fact I can't think of a anything that would inhibit a good racecar more.
I know that all you AT drivers out there who claim to be "enthusiasts" will take offense to^^^but that's a fact. If you really want to get the most out of your cars get a MT.
A word to the wise: it's you're a moron, not your a moron. Writing it as "your" proves the other person right.
I don't think that anyone is going to dispute the fact that a PROFESSIONAL driver can get a car without any kind of driver aids around a track faster than a car with drive aids. Just a guess but I don't think that anyone on here is a professional driver and couldn't consistently get their car close to the limit on a race track. Just a guess. Ferrari has a new system out with a RACE future with watered down driver aids but it left the average driver get within 5 seconds of a professional driver on a 1 1/2 minute course; couldn't get within 10 seconds without em.
HA. I think that an LSD would help anyone get the power down, not just “driving enthusiasts.” These FWD cars now days are making so much power that an LSD is almost necessary to put all that power down.
I saved my favorite bit for last. So the 6-speeds didn't have this VSA throttle body, okay. But they did have it on the autos... Huh, I wonder why that is. All you sallys clamoring on about being "real drivers" and "this mod is for enthusiasts" is the stupidest thing I have heard since I thought you idiots were actually removing the entire VSA. I know, I know I am an idiot for not understanding exactly what you were doing. Just the title VSA delete is slightly confusing.
Anyone who is doing this "mod" has an AT and I don't think that anyone with an AT can call themselves an "enthusiast" in terms of getting the most out of their cars. In fact I can't think of a anything that would inhibit a good racecar more.
I know that all you AT drivers out there who claim to be "enthusiasts" will take offense to^^^but that's a fact. If you really want to get the most out of your cars get a MT.
A word to the wise: it's you're a moron, not your a moron. Writing it as "your" proves the other person right.
#60
Suzuka Master
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Originally Posted by underst8
cleancl i actually have been watching this thread the whole way through and reading each post. Everyone is arguing over the supposed benefits or drawbacks to this mod, when what I'd like to know, and what would shut all the bickering up, is if you start sliding in a CL with the VSA TB installed and with it removed, will the car have the same reaction. IE - does removing the TB have any noticeable affect on the VSA function since it is still cutting fuel, etc...Not the same damn question over and over, im interested in the real impact, not the arguments.
it still engages, and if the system still senses traction loss it puts itself into a safey/limp mode which all but stalls the car leaving the ! light on, but it reset as soon as you turn the car off and back on, with the TB in place the car will NOT go into the limp mode, so in my mind its actually safer without the TB in because it goes one step beyond and throws it into limp mode. this has been posted already and isnt argument, this is what it does, what more do you want?
#61
Originally Posted by typeR
show me a 6MT thats gotten close allmotor ? 1.9 60' on strret tires 106 n/a 13.3 n/a i smoke every 6mt on this board thats n/a and only the most HBP s/cd 6mts are close i think all if not most needed the hope system too ! now how enthused are you ?
If you took two idential car and one was an AT and the other was a MT the MT would win everytime if you had someone who knew how to drive. The fact that you are the fastest car on here is great. That means two thing. First, you mostlikely have a great reaction time. Second, it means you have mostlikely spent more money than most on your motor. I don't mean this as a shot at you but besides your reaction, that no one else has I should add, all you are doing in an AT is letting off the brake and pushing the gas. Not much skill there.
#62
140,000 miles young
OK thank you CleanCL, I saw you describing this earlier. More or less answers my question.
Taking the TB off is not any less safe than leaving it on, just more annoying when vsa goes to limp mode. In that case this thread should be over and those who want to take it off take it off without worrying your vsa won't work as well.
Fish on your point about MT vs AT. I would agree that given the choice between mt and at mt is sweeter and more performance oriented. However, I would not go ahead and say mt drivers are necessarily more enthusiast-oriented. I would love an MT, but 1) got a great deal on my 01 CL 2) could not get an mt in an 01 3) can not afford an '03 6mt. I still mod my car and am a driving enthusiast as much as the next guy driving a 6mt. Also, sometimes an mt just blows in city traffic...whoohoo for sportshift.
Taking the TB off is not any less safe than leaving it on, just more annoying when vsa goes to limp mode. In that case this thread should be over and those who want to take it off take it off without worrying your vsa won't work as well.
Fish on your point about MT vs AT. I would agree that given the choice between mt and at mt is sweeter and more performance oriented. However, I would not go ahead and say mt drivers are necessarily more enthusiast-oriented. I would love an MT, but 1) got a great deal on my 01 CL 2) could not get an mt in an 01 3) can not afford an '03 6mt. I still mod my car and am a driving enthusiast as much as the next guy driving a 6mt. Also, sometimes an mt just blows in city traffic...whoohoo for sportshift.
#63
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by fish008
If you took two idential car and one was an AT and the other was a MT the MT would win everytime if you had someone who knew how to drive.
There are cars out there where the automatic version is quicker/faster than the manual version while being bone stock.
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Originally Posted by fish008
My comments about MTs being more sporty and a better overall performance are generalizations that are correct. Sure you can find an example here and there of and AT that will out-do an MT but pretty much all racecars at MTs, and thats a fact. And frankly I wouldn’t be enthused at all to be driving AT even if it was faster; I actually like being involved in the drive.
If you took two idential car and one was an AT and the other was a MT the MT would win everytime if you had someone who knew how to drive. The fact that you are the fastest car on here is great. That means two thing. First, you mostlikely have a great reaction time. Second, it means you have mostlikely spent more money than most on your motor. I don't mean this as a shot at you but besides your reaction, that no one else has I should add, all you are doing in an AT is letting off the brake and pushing the gas. Not much skill there.
If you took two idential car and one was an AT and the other was a MT the MT would win everytime if you had someone who knew how to drive. The fact that you are the fastest car on here is great. That means two thing. First, you mostlikely have a great reaction time. Second, it means you have mostlikely spent more money than most on your motor. I don't mean this as a shot at you but besides your reaction, that no one else has I should add, all you are doing in an AT is letting off the brake and pushing the gas. Not much skill there.
edit: btw I was just at infineon raceway yesterday and you know the cars running 10s? automatics, so you're telling me that they aren't enthusiasts? moron.....
#65
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Originally Posted by fish008
My comments about MTs being more sporty and a better overall performance are generalizations that are correct. Sure you can find an example here and there of and AT that will out-do an MT but pretty much all racecars at MTs, and thats a fact. And frankly I wouldn’t be enthused at all to be driving AT even if it was faster; I actually like being involved in the drive.
If you took two idential car and one was an AT and the other was a MT the MT would win everytime if you had someone who knew how to drive. The fact that you are the fastest car on here is great. That means two thing. First, you mostlikely have a great reaction time. Second, it means you have mostlikely spent more money than most on your motor. I don't mean this as a shot at you but besides your reaction, that no one else has I should add, all you are doing in an AT is letting off the brake and pushing the gas. Not much skill there.
If you took two idential car and one was an AT and the other was a MT the MT would win everytime if you had someone who knew how to drive. The fact that you are the fastest car on here is great. That means two thing. First, you mostlikely have a great reaction time. Second, it means you have mostlikely spent more money than most on your motor. I don't mean this as a shot at you but besides your reaction, that no one else has I should add, all you are doing in an AT is letting off the brake and pushing the gas. Not much skill there.
btw... what does reaction time have to do with anything? typeR knows how to drive his car, i never knew of an RT counting towards your 1/4 time. typically its the 60', how fast you shift, and how fast you get down the track. unless you meant reaction time in terms of shifting in which case it would be hard to make an argument that a manual tranny shifts faster than an auto...
#66
Originally Posted by fish008
If you took two idential car and one was an AT and the other was a MT the MT would win everytime if you had someone who knew how to drive.
Originally Posted by BigLizard
Your statement must of derrived from stupidity. Back up your proof and I'll believe you. Till then...
There are cars out there where the automatic version is quicker/faster than the manual version while being bone stock.
There are cars out there where the automatic version is quicker/faster than the manual version while being bone stock.
Originally Posted by gc86
obviously you have never drag raced a AT and reaction time has nothing to do with your 1/4 result, moron.
edit: btw I was just at infineon raceway yesterday and you know the cars running 10s? automatics, so you're telling me that they aren't enthusiasts? moron.....
edit: btw I was just at infineon raceway yesterday and you know the cars running 10s? automatics, so you're telling me that they aren't enthusiasts? moron.....
Originally Posted by CleanCL
i guess thats why all the old school muscle heads put autos in their track cars...
btw... what does reaction time have to do with anything? typeR knows how to drive his car, i never knew of an RT counting towards your 1/4 time. typically its the 60', how fast you shift, and how fast you get down the track. unless you meant reaction time in terms of shifting in which case it would be hard to make an argument that a manual tranny shifts faster than an auto...
btw... what does reaction time have to do with anything? typeR knows how to drive his car, i never knew of an RT counting towards your 1/4 time. typically its the 60', how fast you shift, and how fast you get down the track. unless you meant reaction time in terms of shifting in which case it would be hard to make an argument that a manual tranny shifts faster than an auto...
I am not going to debate this any longer because no one will ever win. It doesn’t matter anyways. You should really get the idea thought your heads that a racecar is not just a quarter mile car.
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I never said a racecar was just a 1/4 car? and NO RT has nothing to do with the 1/4 end result time. And yes I meant the old school muscle heads, the only ones in the 10s and 9s there were automatics.
#69
Before I make a long drawn out post I have a question.
With the second TB removed and the VSA still working, but going into safe mode does the car do that anytime the VSA engages due to wheel spin, oversteering/understeering requiring the driver to pull over everytime and shut the car off the reset the system?
With the second TB removed and the VSA still working, but going into safe mode does the car do that anytime the VSA engages due to wheel spin, oversteering/understeering requiring the driver to pull over everytime and shut the car off the reset the system?
#70
Pro
Originally Posted by fish008
How about how every purpose built racecar out there. The following cars are MT racecars; it still is an MT if it has a clutch and can only be manually shifted. IRL, NASCAR, F1, LeMans, GT class, funny cars, ¼ mile dragsters, ect, ect. The list goes on and on. You guys think racing is just ¼ racing and that’s it. There is a lot more to raceing than just a straight line. Alright BigLizard try to name 5 production cars that are available in both AT and MT where the AT is faster. I bet you can’t do it.
#71
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by turbo_911
dude, you know that F1 and LeMans are auto-manual, do a research before you post that, they use paddle shifters.... duh
Originally Posted by fish008
Alright BigLizard try to name 5 production cars that are available in both AT and MT where the AT is faster. I bet you can’t do it.
2. 2006 Benz C230s auto
3. 2007 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L Diesel auto
4. BMW M3 E46 (SMG)
5. 2007 G35 sedan auto
Ok...
I say enough about all this bickering and get back on topic or teh dancing will come.
#72
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Im planning to do this once I get my P2R TB Spacer and 6spd AEM CAI. I too am wondering about the safe mode, sometimes if im accelerating and I hit a slight bump or road imperfection the VSA blinks and I feel the car cut power, will this trigger the limp mode?
#73
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VSA saved me before on a wet night on the highway. Some fuckface kid in a 325i had a typical "ultimate driving machine" personality and wanted to show me and my machine that we were inferior apparently. During a long sweeping curve he zoomed up and nearly rear ended someone in the other lane, cutting in front of me and almost side swiping me. I was forced to brake hard in the turn, losing stability and starting to spin in the process. VSA kicked in and I barely had time to know I was in trouble before I was safe again. I know it works.
Removing the throttle body for less restriction seems scientifically logical and generally safe if VSA characteristics are largely unchanged by it. LSD is great for performance, I don't think it is any slouch when it comes to safety either.
Two reasons most manuals can be faster than their auto counterparts
- They tend to have better gear ratios.
- They tend to have less drivetrain loss because of things like torque converters (and therefore more whp).
Two reasons some autos can be just as fast, if not faster than their manual counterparts
- They have similar or equal gear ratios.
- They can shift more precisely and quickly than most manual drivers.
With this being said, there is a small population of drivers than can actually shift as fast or faster than the average auto. This is the ideal behind manuals being better for performance.
I saw a Chevelle SS sedan today (don't know what year?), 427ci, and AT
Removing the throttle body for less restriction seems scientifically logical and generally safe if VSA characteristics are largely unchanged by it. LSD is great for performance, I don't think it is any slouch when it comes to safety either.
Two reasons most manuals can be faster than their auto counterparts
- They tend to have better gear ratios.
- They tend to have less drivetrain loss because of things like torque converters (and therefore more whp).
Two reasons some autos can be just as fast, if not faster than their manual counterparts
- They have similar or equal gear ratios.
- They can shift more precisely and quickly than most manual drivers.
With this being said, there is a small population of drivers than can actually shift as fast or faster than the average auto. This is the ideal behind manuals being better for performance.
I saw a Chevelle SS sedan today (don't know what year?), 427ci, and AT
#74
Suzuka Master
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the VSA will not go into limp mode all the time, if you see the traction loss and light blink, just ease off the gas and it will be fine. if you sit there and spin the wheels it will go into limp mode. also the car is very driveable even when it falls into the safe mode. you will notice power loss, but its not the same safe mode the ECU goes into when you can't rev past 3,000 rpms.
#75
Originally Posted by turbo_911
dude, you know that F1 and LeMans are auto-manual, do a research before you post that, they use paddle shifters.... duh
Originally Posted by BigLizard
lol...
1. 1998 Toyota Supra TT auto
2. 2006 Benz C230s auto
3. 2007 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L Diesel auto
4. BMW M3 E46 (SMG)
5. 2007 G35 sedan auto
1. 1998 Toyota Supra TT auto
2. 2006 Benz C230s auto
3. 2007 Dodge Ram 3500 6.7L Diesel auto
4. BMW M3 E46 (SMG)
5. 2007 G35 sedan auto
Here is your slower M3 SMG (sequential MANUAL GEARBOX) (which is an automated MT, not a slushbox) http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...mw-m3-smg.html Slower by 0.3 seconds to 60 I might add and that. If you don’t believe me that those automated manuals are still MTs read this.
#78
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (4)
Originally Posted by fish008
You are referencing an automated manual which is not an automatic transmission (and would never be considered one by definition) and does not automatically shift. F1 cars are MTs just not as you may think of them with a stick. They don’t have a clutch pedal but do have clutch paddles behind the wheel that need to be let-out by hand when starting. They have a clutch and the paddle shifters send a signal to the transmission to change the gears. There is no automatic mode and there are no torque converters. Paddle shifters does not mean its an automatic. For years Ferrari’s have offered 2 transmission choices in many of their cars, one being a traditional MT and the other being an F1 style with paddle shifters. They are the exact same transmissions, with a clutch, as the MTs except they have hydraulic rams to move the gears instead of a stick. Even the gear ratios are identical. The 355, 360 Modena, F430, 550, 575, 599 have all offered F1 transmissions that have an automatic mode but the transmission itself is still an MT. And the Enzo didnt have an automatic mode for its MT, it had to be shifted with the paddles for each change.
Prove that list with tests from identical magazines so their test procedures are identical. You just made a list and unless you can prove it, its just a list.
Here is your slower M3 SMG (sequential MANUAL GEARBOX) (which is an automated MT, not a slushbox) http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...mw-m3-smg.html Slower by 0.3 seconds to 60 I might add and that. If you don’t believe me that those automated manuals are still MTs read this.
Prove that list with tests from identical magazines so their test procedures are identical. You just made a list and unless you can prove it, its just a list.
Here is your slower M3 SMG (sequential MANUAL GEARBOX) (which is an automated MT, not a slushbox) http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...mw-m3-smg.html Slower by 0.3 seconds to 60 I might add and that. If you don’t believe me that those automated manuals are still MTs read this.
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
if anyone is interested in doing this mod and doesn't want to deal with much of the electrical end, maybe we could set something up with a vendor here, here is what went on my car and has been there for over a year through snowy winter, and i haven't had a problem.