http://www.kgw.com/kgwnews/story.html?StoryID=35199

 

that was sad

 

Definately sad to see. With more and more young drivers on the road this stuff is gonna keep happening.

In the article they said there was another race where an 11 year old passanger was killed. Who races at over 100 mph with an eleven year old in the car????

 

Teaches you to race in a mustang.

Keep it on the track guys. Racing through traffic aint worth it.

 

Damn guys. Good to see this stuff every once in a while. It reminds us not to race. I feel bad for the person that died in this accident. But really who races with an 11 year old in the car? Thats just insane.

 

Survival of the dumbest: The idiot who pulled out in front of traffic survives just fine. They always get away with their stupidity.

Like all the idiots who don't put on their blinkers when they're going to turn (or put on the OPPOSITE blinker). And these tools who pull out onto a road a hundred feet in front of 50mph traffic and don't even attempt to accelerate.


It's not like the kids were racing in traffic or bad weather or anything that retarded. I blame the jackass who pulled out in front of them.

For all we know he was thinking, "I'll teach them to race, I'm going to pull out and not touch the gas pedal."

Why do I see this side of the picture? Probably because I live in Maryland where there is apparently the highest number of the worst drivers in any one state.

I've had to cross double-yellow lines and pull several other emergency (but officially-illegal) maneuvers to avoid the utterly inbred retards who managed to get licenses but can't drive for shit.

I feel sorry as heck for the passenger who died, because it is still the driver's fault she died. I also feel sorry for the street racing scene because all the idiot politicians and police chiefs will demand harsher legislation, more officers doing speed traps instead of fighting crime, and more red-light and photo-radar communism-cameras.

And I blame it all on the jackasses who can't drive at least the speed limit (weather permitting obviously), can't use directionals, drive super-fast in bad weather because they think their SUV has some kind of magnetic stick to icy roads, non-handsfree cell phone users who aren't giving priority to driving, and people who pull out into traffic and don't accelerate enough so that the people behind them have to slam on the brakes.

 

Btw, anyone talking about a Mustang didn't even read the story right. The Mustang was the previous fatal accident in that state, but this race was supposedly between two Hondas.

 

Damn this is sad man. Thats why I quit racing with my car on public streets.

 

Yeah, some dumbass. Didn't realize approaching cars were doing 80MPH! I mean "really!" we gotta keep these people off of the roads, and keep them clear for our brave young drivers who want to show off, and show how brave they are!

 

Well, no excuse for racing on the public road. If you don't have the reflexes to control the car, (yes, even if someone shoots out into traffic...always have an out) then don't drive that fast. That being said, it's not as if the 19 yr. old woman was an innocent bystander, though. She could have gotten out of the car before the racing. She could have been just as jazzed as the driver about racing. C'mon guys, you know they (girls) get off on their 'man' beating some other guy....we all know how that works. Yeah, he's going to have to live with that for the rest of his life, but let's not make out like the girl was standing on the sidewalk when she was taken out...she was racing just like he was.


dee

 

Its a shame. I think life is too valuable to waste it on stunts like that.

 

your serious right? i sure hope not.. those kids were doing the double the speed limit. 80 in a 40 zone.. and it was prob hard to judge their speed from his viewpoint..

i mean what would either one of them gotten if they 'won'? a cookie? a trophy? 3 inches added to their penises? what really would they have won? I'm really dying to know what people get from 'racing' complete strangers they will never see again and get all worked up about it..

if you really want to race so bad goto a track where they have drag days, or join the scca and race in a controlled enviroment. and if you are good at least you will be recognized in those arenas..

i lost a cousin to highway racing, i sure hope you don't lose anyone before you change your philosophy..

 

Only a typical retard driver wouldn't be able to tell 40mph compared to 80mph - you do realize that's DOUBLE the speed, right - because if you're a normal driver you look at the oncoming traffic long enough to judge if you can safely pull out.

The obvious fact is that he is either too stupid to judge whether or not they were going fast, or he didn't accelerate after pulling out. Either way, he's a jackass.


It's not an issue of, "hmmm they are going exactly 78.2mph" No one can judge that. The point is you CAN judge if they're going "FAST" enough that you shouldn't try pulling out and onto the road or not, and that is all that matters. You DON'T pull out into traffic unless you are sure they're not going too "FAST" - unless you're one of these retards who likes to pull stunts like this idiot might have.

Either way, he's an idiot - either for pulling out into traffic and not accelerating to a normal rate of speed, or for not taking the time to judge the overall quickness of the cars approaching.

I'm sorry but if you can't tell those cars are going relatively* fast, you shouldn't be driving.

*relative to the posted and normal speed cars approach him at that intersection every other time he's merged onto that road.


Oh and nt5k - you start asking me questions about street racing. Uh, I'm not here to defend or argue that. I'm only here to point out that the merging driver is most likely a fuckhead. I think I've successfully made that point.

 

Yeah, like I said, God forbid I may expect others to follow traffic laws. Until I can be sure I can tell how fast someone is coming at me I'll just have to please ask the cops to crack down on them. Or maybe we should make that a part of getting a drivers license? How about "must be able to tell if there is someone who is racing on the street you plan to drive on"? Would that get rid of the "dumbass" drivers good enough for you?

 

Its hard to judge speed when you look at an object from a low angle... At night.

 

Simply put, it sounds like you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

Once again, there is no need to judge exact speed, only that people are moving quickly so you shouldn't pull out in front of them like these retards tend to do.

Sometimes I wish I drove a big truck with a steel plow on the front so I could just push those retards right back off the road who think they can just pull out into traffic without a care in the world or a foot on the accelerator.


Look, I've already won my points. There's nothing to argue:

The loss of life is tragic.
It is the driver's fault for the loss of life.
There an an inordinant number of inbred retards on the roads (especially in MD) who can't drive worth crap and pull stupid maneuvers like turning off a side street into traffic because their two brain cells don't rub together often enough to understand basic driving principles.
You don't need to judge the exact speed of a car to be able to tell whether or not you should pull out in front of it or not - common sense (which seems to be highly lacking among drivers) will tell you.


You don't force everyone else down to the lowest common denominator - you remove the lowest common denominator that is holding everyone else back:

You remove licenses from the retards, not people who know how to drive. You don't solve this problem by all the bullshit cameras and radar ambushes, you get the retards off the road who can't drive properly even on a normal day.

And as for the racers in this instance, they weren't doing anything foolish like racing in wet weather or in traffic, so I don't see them as the problem here. Although the racing itself is illegal, the idiot who pulled out in front of them is the CAUSE of the accident.

 

For the last time, there are two things here, fault and cause.

The racers are at fault for the death - that is obvious - if they hadn't been racing, there wouldn't have been a death.

The cause of the accident, however, lies with the retard who pulled out in front of them because he wasn't able to figure out the nuclear higher math rocket science that derives, "Gee, those cars are moving kinda quickly, perhaps I shouldn't roll into the street in front of them."

Then again there is also retard logic which goes, "Those kids must be racing. I'll teach them a lesson. I'll pull out in front of them and not accelerate, thus forcing them to come to a screeching halt." Some people think that by doing things like that, they will single-handedly stop people from driving fast. @_@

I'm not going to assume that our retard was thinking that, because we honestly don't know, and we never will. But there are people who do such things on purpose just as there are people who drive like retards without intending to.

Either way, he's still a retard whether he intended to cause them a problem or not, and he's still the cause of the accident.

 

None of us was there and the story from the paper wasn't that detailed. It's foolish to try and guess -exactly- what happened and what could have been done differently by either driver. Bottom line is that assuming the racer was going 80MPH, it's a lot harder to stop and control the car than at 40MPH. Especially when the car in question is a Civic which isn't designed for high speed performance driving (yes, this applies to the Si also).

 

all i have to say is the same thing i have said in like 6 other message forums.....if people would learn how to drive instead of trying to show off and show how"cool" they are then nobody would ever die like this!

 

Part of the bottom line is that this guy pulled out in front of the cars. That is fact.

Some of you will insist the racers' caused the accident, and others (myself included) will deduce this guy is the cause although the racers were at fault.

Either way, we all know those in power will see fit to place 100% of the blame on the racers and will use this incident as another platform for lobbying for more idiocy cameras and cops with radar guns taking away nice looking cars instead of worrying more about the retard drivers that cause such accidents.

 

this to me is the real cause, no? every hear of 'defensive' driving? do you think the people racing were driving defensively? when you drive you have to pretty much anticipate that everyone else is a moron. true the guy pulling out was a moron, but the fact remains that if he pulled out and the kids were following the speed limit they would have been able to avoid or stop in time or at least slow from 40mph to 20mph and have a relatively light,livable accident.. i mean if the kids were following the limit, would this have even happened?
i think the racers were morons to assume that their wouldn't be people trying to pull out in front of them and for stupid to assume that the road was all clear.. unless your at a closed track you can never assume that the road is clear..
also by your logic should the racer kid keep his license because he 'knows how to drive' and the guy that pulled should lose it because he doesnt?

 

No. If the idiot hadn't pulled out, there wouldn't have been an accident. The stupidity in assuming the road obviously belongs on that moron who pulled out into traffic. They need to make that part of driver's ed classes: YOU DON'T PULL OUT IN FRONT OF TRAFFIC. Not even because they're retards and can't find the accelerator pedal, but also because the common sense logic What if you car stalls?

You need to learn cause and effect.

Cause: Idiot pulls out into traffic
Effect: Accident.

You're trying to say:

Cause: People racing.
Effect: Accident.

It is clear which is the logical cause of the accident.

 

Obviously they were once Retard pulled out in front of them and they had to avoid him, but since Retard can't judge relative speed and pulled out in front of them in a short enough distance that they couldn't avoid him, defensive driving didn't help.

Just consider for a moment you are driving at 80mph. I'm sure most of you have driven that speed. Now consider how easy it is to slow to around 55-60mph. Not hard at all. Takes like two seconds and that's not even slamming on the brakes.

Now realize just how close to these racers this idiot must have pulled out to make a collision unavoidable. Hell, the racer almost avoided him successfully but clipped the idiot's bumper just enough to put racerboy into a spin.


The true solution is to get rid of all the Mr. and Mrs. Retards out there who can't drive. Revoke their licenses. Shoot them on sight. Whatever.

Obviously the simpler solution is to enforce speed limits more strictly on everyone, and this is what will happen. This is the "reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator" I was talking about earlier. This will definitely happen because it gives government just a little more control over our lives, and we all know how quickly they jump at the chance to lock us down just a little more.

 

JRock,

Assuming the road the accident happened on is a four-lane highway, at 10:15PM, how was the driver that made the turn supposed to know that the two cars coming toward him were traveling at twice the posted speed? As I said before, I wasn't there, but I can see how someone could easily misjudge closing distance at night with two cars traveling in parallel when excessive speed is involved. This is especially true if this is a road that the Grand Prix driver is familiar with and has developed a mental model of what should be safe and what shouldn’t. Doesn’t the Grand Prix driver have a reasonable right to assume that oncoming traffic is traveling at or near the speed limit? As it is, the Civic clipped the rear bumper of the Grand Prix so you can assume that GP driver was fairly well through his turn indicating that his maneuver wasn't necessarily as dumb ass as you imply if the oncoming cars had been going close to the posted 40MPH. Also, if everything was so above board, why did the other "racer" run for it and evade police until six hours later? Even if you only buy that the Civic was going 80MPH, how can you not assign the majority of blame to the "racers" who were traveling twice the speed limit in a residential area? Are you saying that's OK and it’s every other drivers responsibility to anticipate street racing?

 

You credit me with:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by CO-CL-S
A bunch of foolishness.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But I don't see those words in either of my posts? I guess you could say I am part of a problem, that being a person who will try my unmost to get "racers off of the streets!". And if that's a problem for some people then good..

 

Yet again, it's not an issue of determining how fast they are going, which is obviously hard to do at night. It is an issue of "they are going fast so it's not safe to pull out right now" not "how fast are they going".



Complacency is no excuse for failure.

I never defended their actions. They were racing, therefore they were breaking the law.

My current goal is only to make it clear that the cause of the accident is the guy turning into traffic. The fault of the death is most definitely on the racers (especially since it would be impossible to prove otherwise - for example, that the Pontiac driver had malicious intent or anything of that sort.)

You act like I'm defending street racing. I'm not.

I am upset because I see another excuse for people to clamor for more photo-radar cameras and cops ambushing people with radar guns because that is the laziest and most oppressive way to solve the problem, and therefore is naturally the one that will occur.

 

yeah i guess the road belonged to the people racing and this guy hadn't seen the deed to roadway.. silly him..

if the people racing >didn't< cause the accident then in all honesty can you really tell us that this wouldn't have happened if they weren't racing? you don't drive in a residential roadway and not expect people to try to get on the road.. or answer this simpler question, if the people weren't racing >and< the guy pulled out would there have been an accident or a death?

well, whatever.. your not gonna get how stupid racing on public roads is until someone you personally know if effected..

 

In his last response, JRock clarified his position and I can't say I don't agree with him. The old adage "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" is true. In the U.S., a driver’s license is viewed as a "right" where in Germany it is viewed as a "privilege". To get and keep a license in Germany requires the completion of a comprehensive list of written and driving tests and they have an annual renewal process. The per capita accident and fatality rate in Germany is a fraction of ours and their speed limits are significantly higher. Speed traps and photo radar aren’t really going to change anything - a more serious take on driver education and licensing would probably go a long way toward making the roads safer.

 

Your logic is faulty.

They didn't cause the accident. There wouldn't have been an accident except for the guy pulling out into the road in front of them. There is no accident until SpEd pulls out in front of them.

You don't pull out into traffic and expect everyone else to have to slow down to accommodate you. If you think pulling out right in front of traffic is acceptable, you are part of the problem.
Now in this instance, the fault lies with the racers because they were racing. However, once again we are arguing the cause of accident not whose fault it was, as we all agree it was the racers' fault since we cannot prove otherwise.

Once again your chronology of events is faulty.

We have a road.
We have two cars on the road.
THEN we have someone pulling out in front of them.

What is the cause of the accident? The person pulling out in front of them.

Now if you want to discuss fault you can bring speeds and laws into the picture. But if you are delineating cause and effect, you must get down to the basic facts of what was present and what changed that caused an effect.

What changed on that road was the car pulling out onto the road.
That causal event made the accident possible. Had no car pulled out onto the road, it is a physical impossibility for the cars on the road to have an accident with said car.

 

Wait, wait, wait. Accidents are caused EVERY FREAKIN DAY 'bout numb-nuts who just pull out into traffic going too slow... Look at the rear ends and sideswipes!

That they were traveling very fast may have acerbated the results...ie hitting the pole at 60 to 70 instead of 35 or 45, but people can and DO die from hitting poles at those speeds.

The kids were breaking the law...fine.

The idiot pulled out when he couldn't judge the speed on on-coming traffic....STUPID!

Racing didn't cause the accident, being cut off with no time to break and veer did.

Done the same way at 40 mph. He could have still pulled out and caused the accident even at that low speed. Their speed didn't cause it, the avoidance of the nose-picker did.


dee

 

Well almost. The avoidance of him didn't cause the accident, he caused the accident by pulling out into traffic. The result (read: effect) of his pulling out into traffic is the necessity to avoid this retard and since that proved to be impossible, an accident occured.

This accident is one that could have very easily occured at legal speeds, as you so wisely pointed out. It can and does happen because of retards who think they can just pull out into traffic.
The racing is not a necessary factor for this accident to occur. The idiot pulling out into traffic is.


Oh, and it's exacerbated.

 

ok so the moron caused the accident, and the idiots racing caused the death. ie. if he didnt pull out there would be no accident, and if they were racing there would be no death..

which at the end of the day is the whole point. if they weren't driving at such a high rate of speed they might had had the accident still, but im guessing there would have been a greater possiblity of survival.

 

Well almost. The fault of the death is on the driver who was racing his car, but the cause of her death would be the car impacting whatever it hit, thereby killing her. At the morgue you wouldn't see "Cause of Death: Ricer" you would see "Cause of Death: Cerebral Hemotoma" or whatever it was that ended her life after impact.

It's clear you still confuse the words fault and cause. They are not interchangeable.

Also keep in mind you cannot prove what didn't happen would happen. To say that if they hadn't been speeding she wouldn't have died... while I would agree with that... it is not a fact. That is just a statement you would hear from the prosecuting attorney in the courtroom as he tries to influence the jury to his favor.

 

Just to offer an example, it would be like saying, "If Earnhardt had worn a HANS device he would be here with us today." Sorry, but you can't prove that, even though I might agree with you.

 

Oh btw, this is something I meant to comment on back when this thread was only one page long, but I bypassed it so as to keep on track with my replies.


CO-CL-S wrote:
I'm actually kind of at a loss as to how to reply to that. I mean, other than it being crystal clear you aren't someone who gets excitement out of racing another car. And between that and some of your other statements in this thread, it is clear that you are one of the people all for reducing everyone else to the lowest common denominator to ensure safety for the retard drivers out there who in reality just shouldn't be on the roads in the first place putting everyone elses' lives in danger.

This goes much deeper than this one instance of kids racing and the end result we all know about. This is about people who pull stupid stunts like I listed in my first post in this thread. People that should not, under any circumstances, be behind the wheel of a vehicle because they threaten the safety of everyone else on the road everytime they get behind the wheel.

Problem is, we are being forced down to their level, to ensure their safety. The irony is we still see so many of the stupid people fuck up anyway, it should be clear the current implementations have little effect on the amount of stupidity sitting behind the wheel.

But instead of working to fix that by preventing Stupidity from even getting behind the wheel, those in power deem it necessary to INCREASE the control over us normal drivers.

Now call me crazy but if using a screwdriver to get a nail into a board isn't working too well for you, maybe you ought to try a hammer. Well, sure, you could push more effort into the screwdriver and try to push that nail into the board, but what is the end result of that? A bent nail and a nice screwdriver nick in your board.

To relate that to reality, if enforcing us all to follow speed limits (and watching us with cameras and radar to make sure we do it) isn't helping prevent people from dying when idiots get behind the wheel, how is MORE law enforcement going to help prevent the "the jackasses who can't drive at least the speed limit (weather permitting obviously), can't use directionals, drive super-fast in bad weather because they think their SUV has some kind of magnetic stick to icy roads, non-handsfree cell phone users who aren't giving priority to driving, and people who pull out into traffic and don't accelerate enough so that the people behind them have to slam on the brakes" from killing other people? It isn't. You're just going to end up with more government control over us with no good result except a greater loss of freedom (the "nick in the board").

You have to use the right tool for the application. Just as you need to use the hammer on the nail, you need to solve the Stupid Driver Problem with something that works. If you prevent idiots from getting behind the wheel of a vehicle, which we all understand is a deadly weapon when in the hands of an idiot, you solve the problem.

But of course, if we want to be realists about this, we know such legislation would never work because there are a great number of idiots on the road and taking away their licenses would just royally screw over the already unstable economy. Not to mention they would be violently opposed to such legislation and being great in number they would have some sway in the matter, and would much rather just see the rest of us under tighter lock and key when it comes to driving.

And so we will all suffer under increased scrutiny while on the road. And those who suffer the most will be the performance enthusiasts for obvious reasons. Being that you are clearly not a performance enthusiast (as you don't even understand the thrill of racing another car) it is no great surprise that you would instantly see the side of the driver pulling out into traffic, as well as subdued joy at the impending legislation and scrutiny increase that will surely come our way from the cacophony of unscrupulous vermin intent on removing any fun or pleasure from driving.

According to them we should all be in electrically-powered Geo Metros. Alas, the blindingly obvious truth is that Stupid will still be behind the wheel causing plenty of mayhem and havoc and we'll be the ones suffering for it.


ps - I apologize for the poor screwdriver analogy but it was the best I could do at the moment.

 

while it is true that i would like people meet the lowest denominator, i am also in strong favor of bringing the quality of people at the lowest denominator up.. your always going to have a lowest denominator but if the people at this level knew what was what then that's more favorable. ie. i think it should be much harder getting a license here and favor more required driving instruction. and i don't see why we can't have no speed limits like germany, but before we can do that we need the education part in place first. while you may consider yourself an expert driver , what about the old lady next to you in 15 year old car trying to keep up with the speed limit.. so you'll prob say she shouldnt drive , and i agree, but she has to get around too and obviously doesnt have her kids take care of her. (which is a more society issue) also i'm pretty sure our friends in this race thought of themselves as experts.. but i'm pretty sure they saw 0 hours of real car handling instruction..
until the minimal quality of all drivers is raised to a more adequate level, this country will be forced to meet the needs of the morons on the bottom of the ladder..

while i love the rush of speed and competition, i choose to get this rush with my college's Formula SAE team. (0-60:4 sec, Lateral G: 1.4G) and once i get a more approriate car through autocrossing. both of which are sanctioned and legal activities. and most importantly they are carried out in an environment free of outside obstacles, moronic drivers, cops, unfamiliar roads, etc.. there is no reason you can't get the rush of speed and be safe as well.. and although it might be fun to beat a person on public roads, when you factor in the possibility of death, having your license revoked, etc.. it doesn't really add up..

 

Ah yes, sorry, you wrote that, not CO CL S.

And thank you for replying with something more sensible than the bit I quoted in my previous post.

 

I'm sorry, but it's not the guys fault who pulled out in front of them. It's the kids racing who's fault it was. It makes me a bit sad hearing about this. As I have lost a few friends in car accidents. Anyone who says it's the guys fault who pulled out in front needs to grow up a bit. And stop making excuses...

If they were only going 40, the accident most likely would not have happened. Nor would there be any likelyhood of their being any casualtys. And then accident would have been cause by the guy pulling out. Not the young and dumb kids racing...

We used to race all of the time where I'm from. Late at night and back in an industrial area. No people around. And you could go weigh in your car on the truck scale... (this is in suburbs of Chicago, and even Downtown by lake and pulaski)

Of course we strip raced in real cars not these 4-bangers with big exhaust pipes. *Slowest* thing racing with us was mabye a 13.0 second car. A lot of mid 11 cars... those GNX Grand Nationals are pretty quick mod'd. Not to mention all of the stroked chevy small blocks. And the Mustang with 460's in them pull the front wheels of the ground for 50-100ft.

 

I have nothing against racing because I do it on the highway everyday, but only when it's really safe for me and the other racer. I of course don’t know what they are thinking. I would prefer road racing on a track and I never over extend on the highways - I know my limits and the others on the highways. But strict conditions prevailing, I will go. That come from years of maturity of learning from my mistakes.

What makes you hesitate is what makes you think. Please, just listen to that inner voice that make you pause for a sec. It's what has kept me alive to 28 and I know to listen and trust it. I think that what separates the youth from the old. Just listening to that voice from your gut.

Everyone forgets 2nd place especially when they are dead.