Tom2

Has anyone made an effort to advance the ignition timing on a CL-S?

Just a few degrees would make an immediate/noticeable horsepower gain.

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CL-S and M3

tw1112

I heard someone say that acura made it not possible to change the timing? Have you heard anything on the process Tom? I think a couple of people were interested but heard it couldn't be done?

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Tw1112
CL 3.0 '98 - Cleared bumper, Hiper/Piaa/Polarg bulbs all around, PIAA 1700x fogs, AEM CAI, V1, and Mugen Pedals.

• My CL
• LA Autoshow
• SoCal Meet

CLpower

you can't change the timing at least on the 3.0 because of the electronic ditributer (i believe)

Jens H.

Sorry guys without a chip this will not happen remember the 01 CL and up lacks a distributor and timing events are calculated from several fixed sensors.Kind of a bummer if you ask me.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

CLpower

ya i'm really disapointed too

Tom2

Jens,

Just because we lack a distributor does not mean we can't alter our base ignition timing. I've already managed to advance mine, but I haven't perfected it yet. Ambient temperature changes are still giving me trouble, but I should have it worked out soon. I'll let you know when I do.......



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CL-S and M3

soopa

Tom, you do know that your other screen name "Tom" still works? Just checkin...

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit

Chrisbert

Has anyone made a "Chip" for our Type S yet?
HyperTech, JET, anyone?

Thanks,
Chrisbert

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01 CL-S San Marino Red/Black, K&N drop in, no nav, rear wing, otherwise stock thus far, has an appetite for Bavarian cars.

Tom2

You sure? I tried it the other day, and it wouldn't let me post. I kinda like this new name. Reminds me of T2 (Terminator 2)



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CL-S and M3

Mike

"I'll be bock"

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2001 Satin Silver Cl Type S.
Comptech:Headers, Springs & Sways
Muds
Wheel locks
35% Llumar metallic tint
My Car

FDao

chrisbert,

Jet can customize a chip for the Type-S.

One of the members on this board had it done.

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Frank
01-S White/Parchment
Comptech Sways & Springs

tankmonkey

"tominator" is about how it sounds when ahnold says it anyway...

Jens H.

Ambient temp and ignition timing? ummm??? ok I'll bite, tell me more about this.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

F=ma_RENAMED

Just throwing it into the pot, Accord V6's timing can be altered. There's a decent chance that a car 60% the same makeup will as well.

CLpower

'


are you sure?; and if so how?

F=ma_RENAMED

hold on, maybe I can get the guy who had his timing changed on this board. I'll have to email him.

Tom2

Without typing my fingers off, let me just say that base ignition timing is set by the IAT sensor. Most DIS are set up this way. By "fooling" the ECU with a fixed resistance in place of the IAT sensor input, you can very easily alter your timing.

I'll post more when I have all the numbers worked out.



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CL-S and M3

Jens H.

So by altering an input from the IAT you managed to change the base timing?How many degrees did you manage to advance it? Did this affect the cold start ignition retard feature built into the ecu for emission purposes?Did this result in an increase of performance? I assume you added instead of the variable resistance of the IAT a fixed resistor? What resistance does this resistor have?How does this affect fuel mixture since the IAT provides information the PGM-FI ecu uses in the calculation of fuel mixture.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

Tom2

That's exactly what I'm saying, Jens. I'm working with an advance of 3 degrees, and its definitely a noticeable gain.

As you know, upon cold start-up, the car is in open loop, thus runs off set parameters, not any sensor input. Until closed looped is attained, my mod couldn't possibly have any benefit.

So far, I've been playing with different resistors to determine which works best. My main problem is managing to advance the timing to a point that won't knock (if the knock sensor kicks in, timing is retarded big time in our cars) using premium unleaded. I'm sure I could really get a decent advance with higher octane fuel. Of course, weather plays a role here too. I'm probably gonna have to use different resistors in summer than winter to get the benefits of advanced timing without any knock.

I'll post more info as I get more results. I'm still just testing this out at this point.



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CL-S and M3

astro

Tom, this information is SO educational, thanks for sharing it with us

I for one am anxiously waiting for your next installment



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Astroboy out...
2001 Acura CL Type S: Comptech: Headers, filter, sways, springs, koni shocks, goodridge braided brake lines, full kicker system
1996 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo: H&R Springs and sways, Bilstein shocks

Jens H.

Sounds like your having some fun there.Well next time I speak to one of the engineers at Acura(I work for a dealer) I will ask them about this perhaps one of them can cut loose some info to help this project along a bit.Meantime I am going to go hunt around our service manuals and see what there is to be seen. Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA headlamp system tinted custom taillites and on and on

volsfan0911

Mucho cool stuff Tom - keep us posted. This sounds a lot like the 'timing tricker' mod that abounds with the LS1 guys. Do you have the Honda/Acura equivilent of AutoTap or do they make an OBDII setup for the CL-S? I'm very interested because there have been some detonation problems with the LS1 folks. Most of the Z06 folks seem to be OK so far - or maybe there aren't that many that have modded like crazy yet . BTW - mine literally got in this morning! (taking a break from driving right now ).

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when you're ready to succeed!

F=ma_RENAMED

Up, this is a good thread.

Question: would an OBD II sensor help? I know a friend that has one, and our OBD II sensor is really easy to get to. Just pop open the panel right under/behind our not-an-ashtray thingy.

astro

bump

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Astroboy out...
2001 Acura CL Type S: Comptech: Headers, filter, sways, springs, koni shocks, goodridge braided brake lines, full kicker system
1996 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo: H&R Springs and sways, Bilstein shocks

fbazakos

I'll talk to my cousin, he's an acura tech up here at our dealership

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Black 2001 Type S
*Xephyr Cold Air Intake
*PIAA 19169 Road Lamps
*Acura Winter Mats
*Mudguards
*Mobile 1 Synthetic
---Still 2 rims not scratched---

Tom2

OBD II sensor? Not sure what you mean. I've been using an OBD II scan tool (I have an OTC unit) to moniter and record ALL running changes with different resistance.

My scan tool even has the capability to record running data, even as you drive the car. Kinda makes it very easy to see what's happening.

Is this what you meant?



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CL-S and M3

astro

Tom, can you plug that into a laptop to record everything so that you can later analyze it with desktop dyno or a similar program?



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Astroboy out...
2001 Acura CL Type S: Comptech: Headers, filter, sways, springs, koni shocks, goodridge braided brake lines, full kicker system
1996 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo: H&R Springs and sways, Bilstein shocks

scalbert

The changing the perceived intake temps won't change the base timing!! Going colder, typically a higher resistance will advance the timing to a point. But this is after the base timing is read from the maps.

Base timing is just that, the preset value before adjustments. BTW, ECT also affects the timing. However, these also affect fueling parameters. So what you get is more timing and fuel, is it isn't needed then you are defeating any gains from the timing.


Plus, if I am not mistaken (will check the manuals tonight), we don't even have an IAT. We have a MAT sensor that is used to adjust timing but is primarily used for the speed density calculations. This is for load and fueling requirements.

But there is a way to change the base timing. But it can get you in a world of problems if taken too far. You could slightly adjust the crank position sensor so that it is truly advanced. However, this does change the fueling timing too.

This just sounds a little off. BTW, with the heated O2 sensors used today, open loop only lasts for about a minute on start up. Sometimes less if already warm. No longer does the engine have to wait for the coolant temp to increase.

scalbert

Autotap will have a version out soon that will allow you to hook up a laptop to monitor parameters, reset code and log data. I've used this on vehicles for years and it is one of the most valuable tools.

F=ma_RENAMED

Yes, and OBD II scanner, excuse me.


http://www.ontool.com/store/product/441-5044

This is the one I had in mind.

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Kenny
Slow TL

scalbert

BTW, In response to my earlier message I need to correct myself. According to the manual, Acura calls the MAT an IAT. My history and understanding comes from an idea that the IAT was pre TB and a MAT was in the manifold like the CL has. However, names can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

However, the manual seems present that the ECT has more to do with timing issues (similar to other vehicles) and the IAT/MAT has more to do with fueling.

typeR

and so to bring this back from the dead....ECT get s one esm clamp to advance timing and IAT get anotherto get the desired fuel and voila MMII .yes?no? i need power....

Samer007

whats the deal with RES or MMII y cant anyone pick this up

mc222

LOL- Wow, talk about a resurection!

allmotor_2000

Just make a set of adjustable cam gears... it will give you much more than 2-3 degrees of timing advance. I thought about using the Comptech ESM (or something I put together) to control timing, but unfortunately one parameter affects another... and achieving a balance could be painful and the performance gains minimal. You basically have to program new timing/fuel maps. I am working on this aspect.

typeR

the problem with that is...how do you get to the rear cam?

allmotor_2000

With difficulty