Acura NSX Swap into Second Gen CL
08-15-2004, 08:44 PM
#1
Acura NSX Swap into Second Gen CL
With the NSX being Mid-Engine layout in FWD layout fashion, one can't help but wonder if you couldnt shoehorn in the NSX to a second gen CL. Weight should be similar to the J32 - if Tranny is a concern, perhaps there is a way to match up the tranny to a CL tranny (not that it would be my first choice), but if the shoe fits....
Has anyone looked into this yet? I'm not familiar enough with the NSX engine layout to know if this is just an insane thought...
The civics and Teggys swap motors back and forth all day...even big prelude motors into them.
Hondas are at least semi-unerversal in design....one would think there might be a way....
a DOHC VTEC platform in the CL is an interesting thought.....
Has anyone looked into this yet? I'm not familiar enough with the NSX engine layout to know if this is just an insane thought...
The civics and Teggys swap motors back and forth all day...even big prelude motors into them.
Hondas are at least semi-unerversal in design....one would think there might be a way....
a DOHC VTEC platform in the CL is an interesting thought.....
08-15-2004, 10:21 PM
#4
Sweet as Gold
Just a thought...have u ever priced out a NSX motor...you'll be looking at a $20,000 bill for the motor alone, not to mention all the custom work and fabricating that u will have to do. Add everything together and my guess is the total will be approx $30,000. ADD that to ur cost of a CL and u have approx $45,000....for that much cash u could just buy a 4-5 year old NSX!!
08-15-2004, 10:38 PM
#5
Doin' da crack shuffle
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Originally Posted by Ant7701
Just a thought...have u ever priced out a NSX motor...you'll be looking at a $20,000 bill for the motor alone, not to mention all the custom work and fabricating that u will have to do. Add everything together and my guess is the total will be approx $30,000. ADD that to ur cost of a CL and u have approx $45,000....for that much cash u could just buy a 4-5 year old NSX!!
Ouch!
20 grand for a motor?
08-15-2004, 10:40 PM
#6
You are talking about changing the drivetrain layout of a car -- that requires MAJOR chassis refabrication, and all custom at that. You would have to find a shop that can do all that without messing anything up, but even then, a major task like that is bound to have problems after it's completed. Definitely not worth the money.
08-15-2004, 10:42 PM
#7
Well sure...
Fabrication - anything is possible.
I gather the RWD layout V6 in the legends and the V6 in the RLs are cousins of the NSX layout.
The most extravagant honda hybridization I've done is put a 97 integra interior into my 94 civic hatch.
I'm not talking just the seats, etc.
DASHBOARD
HEATER CORE
BLOWER MOTOR
CENTER CONSOLE
GAUGE CLUSTER
SUNROOF CONTROLS
AC CONTROLS
ETC
It was a civic that from the inside (and under the hood) you couldn't tell it wasn't a teggy.
No - it wasnt easy - the wiring was a pain in the ass - the dash didnt fit just perfect and required some finagling...
I had the dremel spin off at least 30 cutting wheels making things fit just right. Modified the door panels, etc.
When it was done - it was pimp - and fairly unique. I only have seen a few others online - and none as pretty as mine.
I also was one of the first to do an H22 swap into an EG body (93 del sol) Talk about an axle-breaking nightmare
I don't doubt it's doable - but who's got $20,000 around to buy an NSX motor and a CL chassis just to tinker with.....
If I has 20,000 laying around I'd put an S2k in the garage next to my CL....
But after seeing turbo posts on the CL - someones got the $$$ to play with, and the dual cam 3.2 has much more potential.....
I gather the RWD layout V6 in the legends and the V6 in the RLs are cousins of the NSX layout.
The most extravagant honda hybridization I've done is put a 97 integra interior into my 94 civic hatch.
I'm not talking just the seats, etc.
DASHBOARD
HEATER CORE
BLOWER MOTOR
CENTER CONSOLE
GAUGE CLUSTER
SUNROOF CONTROLS
AC CONTROLS
ETC
It was a civic that from the inside (and under the hood) you couldn't tell it wasn't a teggy.
No - it wasnt easy - the wiring was a pain in the ass - the dash didnt fit just perfect and required some finagling...
I had the dremel spin off at least 30 cutting wheels making things fit just right. Modified the door panels, etc.
When it was done - it was pimp - and fairly unique. I only have seen a few others online - and none as pretty as mine.
I also was one of the first to do an H22 swap into an EG body (93 del sol) Talk about an axle-breaking nightmare
I don't doubt it's doable - but who's got $20,000 around to buy an NSX motor and a CL chassis just to tinker with.....
If I has 20,000 laying around I'd put an S2k in the garage next to my CL....
But after seeing turbo posts on the CL - someones got the $$$ to play with, and the dual cam 3.2 has much more potential.....
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08-15-2004, 10:54 PM
#8
There was a guy at a show I talked to, he said the engine would cost about 5-7k plus delivery, for the NSX engine, he was located in NY. But I think it would be a lot of time/effort/money, probably more than it is worth.
08-15-2004, 11:04 PM
#9
Safety Car
I serisouly looked into this and concluded that the modifications required to the car would make it nearly impossible to revert back to stock.
However.. to answer your questions:
(1) NSX motor (minus tranny) is around $4K - $5K
(2) It would require a motor rebuild to make the swap worthwhile
(3) Direction of rotation and the NSX tranny should work - although not sure about
the axles - might need to use the CL-S outer shaft and NSX inner shaft
(4) Swapping to the NSX engine harness and ECU would be required
(5) Custom motor mounts are required as well.
I think it can be done for $10K. However, the net result is NOT worth the cost. Make a turbo kit and you'll make just as much power as a T/C'd or S/C'd NSX unless you want to go NA.
However.. to answer your questions:
(1) NSX motor (minus tranny) is around $4K - $5K
(2) It would require a motor rebuild to make the swap worthwhile
(3) Direction of rotation and the NSX tranny should work - although not sure about
the axles - might need to use the CL-S outer shaft and NSX inner shaft
(4) Swapping to the NSX engine harness and ECU would be required
(5) Custom motor mounts are required as well.
I think it can be done for $10K. However, the net result is NOT worth the cost. Make a turbo kit and you'll make just as much power as a T/C'd or S/C'd NSX unless you want to go NA.
08-15-2004, 11:19 PM
#12
Originally Posted by blader
OK I may sound stupid on this one but .. Just the same as you upgrade to a 3.5L, couldn't you put NSX DOHC heads and internals into a CL block?
08-16-2004, 07:46 AM
#13
As with all speed things...
How fast you wanna go = How much $$$$ you got ?
Coming to the CL platform from a history of B powered hondas, I see some room for improvement in the intake manifold / throttle body arena.
A 2.5 hour bolt on Intake manifold on a b series engine can mean as much as a 10% horsepower increase in certain applications.
I gather thats the real major difference between the CL-P and the CL-S - heads and manifolds. Wonder if the Typs S mani's would swap onto my CL-P....
A DOHC swap onto the SOHC block...hmmm...not thinking that would work out. I know you can't swap D series and B series blocks/heads on the 4 bangers.
Wonder how close the bore is on the NSX pistons vs the CL....
Coming to the CL platform from a history of B powered hondas, I see some room for improvement in the intake manifold / throttle body arena.
A 2.5 hour bolt on Intake manifold on a b series engine can mean as much as a 10% horsepower increase in certain applications.
I gather thats the real major difference between the CL-P and the CL-S - heads and manifolds. Wonder if the Typs S mani's would swap onto my CL-P....
A DOHC swap onto the SOHC block...hmmm...not thinking that would work out. I know you can't swap D series and B series blocks/heads on the 4 bangers.
Wonder how close the bore is on the NSX pistons vs the CL....
08-16-2004, 09:27 AM
#15
'Big Daddy Diggler'
for anything over 5 k, i would just have all motor build you a turbo setup and blow the doors off a stock NSX. Thats way too much money. It can be doen, but you are looking at a lot of one off custome parts. Where are you going to get more parts if something breaks. You will have to have the shop make you a bunch of the same parts for you to keep spares. Like i said before for the money, a turbo cl with 400 whp is the way to go.
08-16-2004, 10:30 AM
#16
Safety Car
Originally Posted by bigman
for anything over 5 k, i would just have all motor build you a turbo setup and blow the doors off a stock NSX. Thats way too much money. It can be doen, but you are looking at a lot of one off custome parts. Where are you going to get more parts if something breaks. You will have to have the shop make you a bunch of the same parts for you to keep spares. Like i said before for the money, a turbo cl with 400 whp is the way to go.
08-16-2004, 12:21 PM
#17
'Big Daddy Diggler'
Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
You can spray a 50-shot of NOS and beat a stock NSX... with 400whp you'll be beating S/C'd NSX's or at least hanging very close. The most I have seen a 'kit' produce on a stock NSX motor (either S/C or Turbo) is 423whp
On a side note, how come the j series v6 can handle that much power, but the NSX motor can make 4 and change max. You stated before that you believe the j32 can handle 600 whp on stock internals.
08-16-2004, 12:33 PM
#18
The thought had crossed my mind as it probably has crossed a lot of other CLer's. But given the expense of the NSX engine and mods required to make it fit, I think I'd rather just buy an NSX. But never the less, I'd love to see someone do it and see how it would turn out.
08-16-2004, 12:40 PM
#19
COME AT ME BRO!
i know there is a few guys who have done the nsx swap into a crx but that is a whole diffrent ball game. just spend 7 gz and have all motor make you a beast 416 whp at 5.5 lbs of boost 460 whp at 8-9 lbs of boost thats a str8 monstr.
08-16-2004, 01:15 PM
#20
Safety Car
Originally Posted by bigman
Well there you go. Get a turbo setup from all motor
On a side note, how come the j series v6 can handle that much power, but the NSX motor can make 4 and change max. You stated before that you believe the j32 can handle 600 whp on stock internals.
On a side note, how come the j series v6 can handle that much power, but the NSX motor can make 4 and change max. You stated before that you believe the j32 can handle 600 whp on stock internals.
450-460whp reliably (if tuned properly) and maybe 500whp on 1 or 2 passes - that's it!!
08-16-2004, 07:28 PM
#21
ex 6 Speed owner :(
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I think the quote was that the turbo we are currently running can SUPPORT up to 600hp. That is it can flow enough air so the engine can make 600hp. Nothing to do with the internals of the engine... beware!
08-16-2004, 08:39 PM
#22
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by ThinJim
Well, it would be about 20,000.00 just for the longblock, without heads.
http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...prddisplay.jsp
http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...prddisplay.jsp
yea, but who the hell goes out and buys a NEW motor for a swap? I bet a CL-S motor from those guys would be 10K
08-16-2004, 08:40 PM
#23
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by evilone
i know there is a few guys who have done the nsx swap into a crx but that is a whole diffrent ball game. just spend 7 gz and have all motor make you a beast 416 whp at 5.5 lbs of boost 460 whp at 8-9 lbs of boost thats a str8 monstr.
pics? Because i've never seen that, heard of it, but I'm calling
i've seen a TT legend motor in a civic but it was converted to RWD
08-16-2004, 08:41 PM
#24
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
I don't remember saying the stock J-series can handle 600whp?!? I think a max of
450-460whp reliably (if tuned properly) and maybe 500whp on 1 or 2 passes - that's it!!
450-460whp reliably (if tuned properly) and maybe 500whp on 1 or 2 passes - that's it!!
There are a few guys running J30's and J35's in some sand rails that are holding 8-9 lbs of boost. THe last guy I talked to about two years ago said he had 3 seasons of hard desert driving on his TT J35. He said he was very suprised at how much boost the stock motor took. He couldn't wait ot rebuild it.
08-16-2004, 08:49 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by CLpower
pics? Because i've never seen that, heard of it, but I'm calling
it must have been the same guy who shoehorned a 1971 Judge 455HO into a del sol...all I remember is that guy talking about a massive rake...
08-17-2004, 12:44 AM
#28
Safety Car
I've seen the NSX motor in the BACK of a civic... never ran properly. There was one supposedly installed in the front of a old-style CRX... kept breaking axles. I've seen a Legend V6 in a CRX... not sure what happened to that one!?!
08-17-2004, 06:31 AM
#30
It's All About the Insurance Premiums
The things that initially intrigued me about swaps - aside from the pure horsepower aspect - was the car insurance aspect. Alot of them have wised up about it, but in the good ol days (5-6 years ago) you could buy the base model civic, drop a 200hp teggy motor in it - and still pay insurance on the base model civic's rating (not the integra type Rs).
This was a monthly savings of a couple hundred bucks for me at the time - and when comparing full coverage on the $50K + NSX (if used) to the $19K CL (if Used) - you could get a pretty bada$$ setup without payin "the man" to play with your toys on the public roads.
Counterpoint - turbo setup achieves the same thing - After roasting stock internals on two b16s in less than 10,000 miles on only 10lbs of boost - I'm not too keen on boosting the CL - not without buying a block and getting it sleeved.
If you're going to put serious boost down - for those of us who don't own our own machine shop.......get out the checkbook, and take a couple months out of your life sourcing all the parts and labor....
By the time you sleeve the block - new lower compression, forged pistons and forged or beaded rods, new crank bearings, knife edge the crank, lighten the fly, block guard and head gasket, new head studs, new wrist pins, mild port and polish on the heads, 5 angle valve job, titanium springs and retainers, adjustable cam gears, solid motor mounts, beefier axles, transmission cooler, new oil pan...not to mention the turbo manifold, turbos, wastegates, downpipes, intercooler, piping, blow off valve, turbo timer, boost controller, hotter Coil, fuel management computer, piggyback or replacement ECU, higher rated fuel pump, hotter injectors, fuel pressure regulator, and a little time on the dyno with someone who knows what they're doing (need I go on)...
BulletProof Bottom - High Flowing top Now where's Shell and BP with the 112 octane at the pump..... I reckon thats easy $10,000+ at friendly prices.
The NSX swap option might be comparable in price. I understand the internals and electronics, and fuel delivery on the 99 and newer engines handle 5-8 lbs of boost (comptech supercharger) just fine with longevity....
This was a monthly savings of a couple hundred bucks for me at the time - and when comparing full coverage on the $50K + NSX (if used) to the $19K CL (if Used) - you could get a pretty bada$$ setup without payin "the man" to play with your toys on the public roads.
Counterpoint - turbo setup achieves the same thing - After roasting stock internals on two b16s in less than 10,000 miles on only 10lbs of boost - I'm not too keen on boosting the CL - not without buying a block and getting it sleeved.
If you're going to put serious boost down - for those of us who don't own our own machine shop.......get out the checkbook, and take a couple months out of your life sourcing all the parts and labor....
By the time you sleeve the block - new lower compression, forged pistons and forged or beaded rods, new crank bearings, knife edge the crank, lighten the fly, block guard and head gasket, new head studs, new wrist pins, mild port and polish on the heads, 5 angle valve job, titanium springs and retainers, adjustable cam gears, solid motor mounts, beefier axles, transmission cooler, new oil pan...not to mention the turbo manifold, turbos, wastegates, downpipes, intercooler, piping, blow off valve, turbo timer, boost controller, hotter Coil, fuel management computer, piggyback or replacement ECU, higher rated fuel pump, hotter injectors, fuel pressure regulator, and a little time on the dyno with someone who knows what they're doing (need I go on)...
BulletProof Bottom - High Flowing top Now where's Shell and BP with the 112 octane at the pump..... I reckon thats easy $10,000+ at friendly prices.The NSX swap option might be comparable in price. I understand the internals and electronics, and fuel delivery on the 99 and newer engines handle 5-8 lbs of boost (comptech supercharger) just fine with longevity....
08-17-2004, 07:19 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Pseudomaniac
The things that initially intrigued me about swaps - aside from the pure horsepower aspect - was the car insurance aspect. Alot of them have wised up about it, but in the good ol days (5-6 years ago) you could buy the base model civic, drop a 200hp teggy motor in it - and still pay insurance on the base model civic's rating (not the integra type Rs).
This was a monthly savings of a couple hundred bucks for me at the time - and when comparing full coverage on the $50K + NSX (if used) to the $19K CL (if Used) - you could get a pretty bada$$ setup without payin "the man" to play with your toys on the public roads.
Counterpoint - turbo setup achieves the same thing - After roasting stock internals on two b16s in less than 10,000 miles on only 10lbs of boost - I'm not too keen on boosting the CL - not without buying a block and getting it sleeved.
If you're going to put serious boost down - for those of us who don't own our own machine shop.......get out the checkbook, and take a couple months out of your life sourcing all the parts and labor....
By the time you sleeve the block - new lower compression, forged pistons and forged or beaded rods, new crank bearings, knife edge the crank, lighten the fly, block guard and head gasket, new head studs, new wrist pins, mild port and polish on the heads, 5 angle valve job, titanium springs and retainers, adjustable cam gears, solid motor mounts, beefier axles, transmission cooler, new oil pan...not to mention the turbo manifold, turbos, wastegates, downpipes, intercooler, piping, blow off valve, turbo timer, boost controller, hotter Coil, fuel management computer, piggyback or replacement ECU, higher rated fuel pump, hotter injectors, fuel pressure regulator, and a little time on the dyno with someone who knows what they're doing (need I go on)... BulletProof Bottom - High Flowing top Now where's Shell and BP with the 112 octane at the pump..... I reckon thats easy $10,000+ at friendly prices.
The NSX swap option might be comparable in price. I understand the internals and electronics, and fuel delivery on the 99 and newer engines handle 5-8 lbs of boost (comptech supercharger) just fine with longevity....
This was a monthly savings of a couple hundred bucks for me at the time - and when comparing full coverage on the $50K + NSX (if used) to the $19K CL (if Used) - you could get a pretty bada$$ setup without payin "the man" to play with your toys on the public roads.
Counterpoint - turbo setup achieves the same thing - After roasting stock internals on two b16s in less than 10,000 miles on only 10lbs of boost - I'm not too keen on boosting the CL - not without buying a block and getting it sleeved.
If you're going to put serious boost down - for those of us who don't own our own machine shop.......get out the checkbook, and take a couple months out of your life sourcing all the parts and labor....
By the time you sleeve the block - new lower compression, forged pistons and forged or beaded rods, new crank bearings, knife edge the crank, lighten the fly, block guard and head gasket, new head studs, new wrist pins, mild port and polish on the heads, 5 angle valve job, titanium springs and retainers, adjustable cam gears, solid motor mounts, beefier axles, transmission cooler, new oil pan...not to mention the turbo manifold, turbos, wastegates, downpipes, intercooler, piping, blow off valve, turbo timer, boost controller, hotter Coil, fuel management computer, piggyback or replacement ECU, higher rated fuel pump, hotter injectors, fuel pressure regulator, and a little time on the dyno with someone who knows what they're doing (need I go on)...
BulletProof Bottom - High Flowing top Now where's Shell and BP with the 112 octane at the pump..... I reckon thats easy $10,000+ at friendly prices.The NSX swap option might be comparable in price. I understand the internals and electronics, and fuel delivery on the 99 and newer engines handle 5-8 lbs of boost (comptech supercharger) just fine with longevity....
08-17-2004, 10:20 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by pimpscls
itd be a waste of money. I would just get and nsx after all that hastle
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