I've noticed this about Acura....they're turning out to be the Nissan/Infiniti of the mid/late 90's. The time when people were buying SUV's left and right and killed the market for sports cars and sporty coupes. Nissan almost failed cuz they targeted the sedans as their bread and butter...sentras/maximas...decent cars but where was nissan going? Nothing innovative at all...just like what Acura is doing now...look at what Mazda is doing now...mazda 6, rx-8, mazdaspeed protege...any of you acura fans feel the same way i do?

CL - gone and forgetten by corp...decent FWD entry level coupe
TL - overpriced FWD sedan...would rather get a G35 sedan
TSX - POS overpriced sedan...gimme the Mazda 6 V6 and i still have money to play with.
MDX - decent crossover SUV...the only thing keeping acura alive
RL - seriously how many do you see on the road?
NSX - this was nice in the early 90's but cmon...it needs a v8 or a turbo/SC to keep up with the newer supercars.

 

I tend to disagree... I think that over the next couple of years Acura will be redesigning and reintroducing several models which will give them a lot of staying power.

CL - most likely gone for now... but rumors have it coming back redesigned in 2005/2006.

TL - Best bang for the buck as far as comfort, performance, and features, and from the spy photos and rumors on the new model due out this year, you're going to get even more car for around $32k.

TSX - Awesome little upper-entry level car with standard features that are usually seen on $40k+ cars. Slick interior, nice styling, and good handling.

MDX - not much to say here... very sweet truck.

RL - I still see quite a bit on the road actually.. and if the rumors are true about the 2005 RL (due out next year), that car is going to be quite a beast, and will become very popular once again.

NSX - I agree with you here somewhat... they do need to step up the NSX to hang with the supercar crowd, however, it can still handle and perform with the best of them... even with a V6.

 

I agree with the JBean. They sold lots of TLs and were a segment leader with the price. If you have a sedan that's selling well then you are a success with the biggest segment of car buyers.

If gregshin had said that in 1996, 97, 98, 99 Acura was losing it, I would agree, not much memorable offered in those years. That was the low point.
The CLS was a major improvement over the CL too. So I think the momentum is good, I still love the NSX, the RL needs to be gone.
If they don't want to offer a true upper segment RL then drop it and push the TL up a little, which they seem to be doing.

 

I've noticed this about Acura....they're turning out to be the Nissan/Infiniti of the mid/late 90's. The time when people were buying SUV's left and right and killed the market for sports cars and sporty coupes. Nissan almost failed cuz they targeted the sedans as their bread and butter...sentras/maximas...decent cars but where was nissan going? Nothing innovative at all...just like what Acura is doing now...look at what Mazda is doing now...mazda 6, rx-8, mazdaspeed protege...any of you acura fans feel the same way i do?

CL - gone and forgetten by corp...decent FWD entry level coupe
Agreed, a nicer Accord
TL - overpriced FWD sedan...would rather get a G35 sedan
Your nuts. The TL is a HUGE value for what you get. Infiniti resale values suck and that G35 will be no exception to Infiniti's subpar resale value.
TSX - POS overpriced sedan...gimme the Mazda 6 V6 and i still have money to play with.
POS? It's basically a nicer Accord. A platform which has consistenly been a Consumer Reports recommended buy FOREVER and one of the best overall cars ever to own in it's class? POS? I've been to a Mazda dealership, the 6 is the POS here where's the voice rec. navi option or all the other ammenities you get for your money. This car has like 2 missing options that my CLS has. Maybe you can take that money you saved off the 6 and go get it up to snuff w/ an Acura. Better yet, go ask your Mazda dealership what their loaner policy is. I'll be in a TL loaner and I'll way to you from your Ford Pony.
MDX - decent crossover SUV...the only thing keeping acura alive
Truck of the year last year, still a waiting list of you want one around here, I'd say it's a HUGE hit not just a 'decent crossover'
RL - seriously how many do you see on the road?
I agree, this platform needs to be updated
NSX - this was nice in the early 90's but cmon...it needs a v8 or a turbo/SC to keep up with the newer supercars.
You must not be really into cars, go see what the NSX beats w/ it's current setup in cornering, overall speed, etc.

 

wow where did this guy come from?? in any case, he made some valid arguments..

CL is dead....what can be said? the sales speak for themselves, its an awesome fucking car, but no one bought it, so the only sensible thing to do from a business standpoint is to kill it. as far as it coming back?? ehh....THIS CL WAS the comeback of the original CL and it still failed even though it was leaps and bounds above the first gen CL....i dunno. acura may just cut its losses with the luxury midsized coupe market and not come back.

TL, the new one should flat out kick ass. its gonna have more power (should be equal to or above the G35, max, and anything else in its segment. as far as AWD, who knows, if so, wow, that would be impressive. it will also have that new navi, that thing is sweet, hopefully a smooth ass interior, it will no doubt be a really sweet ride, and the current TL is no slouch as it is!!

RL...yeah, the current RL is a joke....3.5 liter with LESS HP and LESS torque than the CL and TL?? it makes no sense. it needs a MAJOR overhaul in every imagineable way.

NSX..still looks cool as fuck, but sadly underpowered for what it is trying to be (exotic) when was the last time we saw an exotic car with less than 400 hp....how about less than 300 hp....kinda sad...hopefully acura will step it up.

TSX looks damn nice, hopfully a 240 hp Type S is around the corner....200hp 4 banger is a bit weak for a luxury car, that sure wont impress many people. but with some more power, that would attract more people for sure. regardless of power, that car looks really sharp, inside and out, and that NAVI owns the industry right now, period.

MDX..agreed, that thing is tits. keep upgrading minor stuff every year, the MDX is good to go. its definately holding acura together right now.

The new TL and the TSX should be a great segue into the next generation of acura, lets hope they do well!!

 

When looking at any car manufacture’s lineup, people need to take into account what the company is planning to do in the next year or so. The TL is getting redesigned next year and moving upscale. The RL is getting redesigned in the next year or two. The NSX is getting redesigned in 2 years or so. I would say they are moving in the right direction.

 

Dude, are you sure you're on the right forum? The Mazda forum is two doors down on the left.

Seriously though, I'm going to have to agree with Bean here 100%.
CL - gone because of poor sales. Forgotten by the corp only because it was never in the public's memory to forget in the first place.
TL - Outstanding bang for your buck. Plus great level of power and refinement. And it's getting even better this year.
TSX - "POS"? The only people who say that are those who haven't sat in/driven one. Fit and finish is supposed to be out of this world with a list of standard features longer than any car in its class (or any class). Plus...if we're talking about Acura "losing its way"...the TSX is NOT the car to pick on. Acura's heritage is all about small 4cyl lux cars (Integra). If anything, TSX is going back to Acura's roots.
MDX - Fantastic...'nuff said.
RL - Ok, Acura dropped the ball on that one. But hopefully fixing that with the next gen.
NSX - A superb supercar. Technologically advanced when it hit the market and remains that way today.

But don't take my word for it...just listen to what these other fine Acura enthusiats have to say... (lol)

 

4 cylinder luxury heritage? you gotta be joking chief...if i may recall Acura's best luxury car was the LEGEND (may she rest in peace...but probably rolling in her grave) and it didnt have 4 cyls. If you're in the luxury car business you need BALLS and that means v6's or v8's same as in the SPORTS CAR business. These 2 catagories are all about IMAGE. RWD and big motors are what drives sales in those catagories.

 

"chief"? Cool...hey look...he called me "chief"...*giggle*

Ok...really. The Legend is a, well, it's a Legend. There's not denying that. But the Integra has been there every step of the way. And I would hazard to guess that the Integra made Acura quite a bit more money than the Legend. Seriously, if you don't like Acura's cars because they don't have enough cylinders for you, then move on to your Mazda or Infiniti. I could care less. Some of us like Acura's engines and will continue to buy their products even if some people don't think they have "BALLS"...(even though the TSX has as much or more "BALLS" than its competition.)

 

Go back to whatever nissan forum you crawled out from.
1) Nissan has come close to bankruptcy more then once.Infinity as well. Acura never even had its foot near the grave.

2) Acura is honda which has its heritage in 4cyl.

3) Acura biggest hit is the integra not the legend. The legends rep has grown since its demise and rechristening as the RL.

You havent a clue as to what youre talking about when it comes to what sells cars. When you graduate from High School go take some business courses at whatever community college you get into.

There my 2 cents, go use it to buy yourself a clue.

Nuff said.

 

:whocares:

 

Was this your application for the "Troll of the Week" award. Good entry. You've got my vote.

 

Whatever happened to the rumored 2003/4 NSX powered by a 4.0 VTEC V8? I heard about this almost 2 years ago.

 

If the CL is a "decent" entry level coupe, what does that make your 98 Nissan 240sx?

3 words come to mind.....Piece of Shit.

 

You know, you beat me to it.

Maybe this thread should be called:

Casual observations of a hater.

 

The NSX is not aging well. In it's youth, it was a kick ass car, but it's time for a redesign. For $90,000 it doesn't offer any bang for the buck. Sure it handles well, but there are cars that cost 10's of thousands less, that are doing just as well in the reviews. (The Z06 Vette comes to mind, starting at $52K).

Honda/Acura is generally a conservative company, but with the introduction of the new Accord and TSX, it looks like they are starting to take more chances w/ their new offerings. Whether you like the stylings of the new cars or not, you have to admit that Honda/Acura looks to be trying to shed their conserative ways.

Seeing how their US product line is developing, it wouldn't suprise me if they some out with some more exciting cars as they slowly redesign the whole lineup. Hopefully a new CL will be included in the makeover of the H/A lineup

 

Funny, first the RSX is mentioned nowhere....last I check it was a good replacement for the Integra. Second, the Legend was what made Acura (and its profits) selling around 50k units (2 and 4 door) during its hayday, the Interga was added early on to give the dealerships something else to flog if the Legend was not a success and cover the lower end market.

I suppose that because all manufacturers do not completely redesign their cars at the same time this is a bad thing for Honda\Acura? No, this is what drives competition in the market. Acura is on the verge of a complete overhaul for TL\RL\NSX. Keeping the RL and NSX around for as long as they have without significant redesign is a business choise to recover the investments already made in these platforms (FYI they both share the C-block that the Legends did). Its pretty much unanimous that a VTEC 3.5L+ block is going to find its way into both.

Ye of little faith can jump ship to Infiniti and Lexus if you please, cause they have some very strong offerings right now. But if you feel that H\A will not respond to these offerings than you are severly misinformed. Lets not even get into the RWD\V8 arguments that has plagued Acura for the last couple years. I respect them more for sticking to at least some of their roots (Green\Efficient more with less company). Im sure they will have some revolutionary ideas coming out in the near future.

 

The RWD and especially V8 arguments reminds me of the early '90s when Honda refused to put a V6 into the Accord. Car magazines and enthusiasts were all complaining about Honda only offering a 4 cylinder in the Accord. Finally in '95 they put a V6 into the Accord. Just something to think about.

 

Yo! Someone as old as me! I remember that also; Honda designed the 5G Accord to be a 4 cylinder only (1994 model year) but because of V6 demand, Honda stretched the 5G frontend to accomodate the C27A motor.

That said, lets look at the RL's primary competitors:
- Lexus LS430 (RWD/V8 w/300hp+)
- Infiniti Q45 (RWD/V8 w/345hp)

Now, I'm not certain how many units of these are being sold (per year) but if its only 9,000 then I'm willing to bet that Toyota and Nissan would cancel their production.

The MDX is solid and is the ONLY reason why Acura may stay in the black (speaking financially); no other SUV can really give buyers the total package it offers (decent performance, luxury amenities, interior roominess, decent fuel economy, high reliability all for under $40G). Of course an add'l 40hp/40lb-ft couldnt hurt!!

The RSX line just needs some minor adjustments:
- Dump the FP and Base models
- Rename the car the 'Integra'
- Make the Type S model the base model
- Import the Type R
DONE!! I'd much rather get the current ITR than a base WRX!!

The TL and CL could benefit from having their J series motors bored to 3.5L (maybe to the tune of 290hp) and given RWD; this would sway some G35 buyers to go the Acura route.

The NSX--still a great car but....time for a RESTYLE and NEW POWERTRAIN. At least develop a C32A..er...K32A..with iVTEC or something.

Peace.

 

Every car that Honda has labled a sports car has RWD...the NSX and S2K...I don't understand the need to make CL\TL RWD...By doing so they could not use the "Global Midsize Platform" which is one of the reasons these cars are so much more affordable than their competitor's stablemates.


Horse....beaten.....death...

 

Alright, I'll give you that an Acura CL is a nicer car as a nice comfy commuter car, but I'm sure his 240 would probably own 99% of Acura CL's on the road handling and power wise. But...maybe you were only talking about comfort.

I wish I had a 2750lb 260+hp POS S14a.

 

Acutally, I belive The RL's main competition are the Lexus GS and Infiniti M45. They're both in the $40k range which is where the RL is priced. The Lexus LS430 and Infiniti Q45 are both priced a lot more than the RL.

As for how many cars are sold, the M45 came out middle of last year so yearly sales would be inaccurate. But March 2003 sales for the M45 is 386. March 2003 sales for the RL is 585. Just to compare sales number between the RL and Q45 would be even more interesting. Acura sold 9392 RLs in 2002 vs. Infiniti sold 5726 Q45s in 2002.

BTW, I couldn't find sales numbers for Lexus.

Sources: www.nissannews.com and www.hondanews.com

 

Some quotes from the Car and Drivers review of the TSX.

The review

"So imagine Acura's predicament. Not only is the TSX, on sale this April, the first time the Honda subsidiary has admitted to going directly after BMW, but, well, it's not a very good copy, is it? Look at it. Its pointed nose protrudes more than the fashionable few inches beyond the leading edge of the front wheels. It has driveshafts in the front, but none driving the rear wheels. And in its haste, Acura has forgotten to add the fifth and sixth cylinders to the engine.

All of this must be very embarrassing for the company, which is typically known for its quick-wittedness. Surely, Acura is not so daft as to believe it could fool car enthusiasts with some tarted-up front-drive, four-cylinder family sedan."

"Despite its general handiness, the TSX can conceal its front-drive nature for only so long. Drive really hard, and the 3-series posing fades quicker than the front tires' grip on the pavement. The quick-ratio steering is light, accurate, and nearly immune to kickback, but its numbness doesn't warn the driver that those tires are about to give up the fight. Driven as if you were the guy making the payments, the TSX is plenty satisfying. Acura tried to reduce the weight up front, including using a lightweight magnesium manual transaxle case, but, like an American Accord, the TSX carries 60 percent of its weight over the front axle."

"So forget all the BMW-fighter stuff and be thankful for the return of this particularly satisfying brand of Japanese sports sedan. Like we said: an utter failure at being a BMW copy."

 

very good point


Yes the RL isn't what it should be, however it almost outsold the newly introduced m45 and the q45 COMBINED. Not bad for a 8yr design IMO.

Also, the new Tl should make the g35's depriciation even worse

 

So it failed to be a BMW beater.....that was a bad call on Acura's part to try and compete aginst the IS300 and 3-series. But people make the same argument about the IS3 not beating BMW...but it is a very competent car indeed. The TSX fills a segment of intro luxo 4-door and it does it very well. Go drive one and you will see features your 240 could only dream of. The 6-speeds are very peppy too.

 

I believe sales numbers speak for themselves. I have read that since the redesign of the TL/CL, Acura has sold 350,000+ units. That's CL/TL alone. MDX, you have be on a waiting list. RL, there's quite a few back home. TSX, we'll have to wait and see, since it just came out. It's not your decision to label it as a piece of shit. We'll see how many people think otherwise in the next few months, as a lot of kids like the ones back in my high school will probably run to the Acura dealerships with their parents.

G35, equally equipped as the TL-S, costs more. And from my personal experience, it's not as nicely appointed. I'm 5'11, 180 lbs. My '03 TL-S fits me perfectly, and the G35 coupe was just horrible. I fiddled around with the seat adjustment for a few minutes and could not find the right position for me.

It's ridiculous to compare Acura to Nissan. Compare it to Infiniti, and that might be a bit closer.

Acura's doing just fine. Infiniti, on the other hand, suffer from HORRIBLE resale values, and they don't sell that many cars. I see more RL's than Q45's in my hometown.

 

An NA engine with less power, forward wheel drive, crappy weight distrobution, less style!

Hey gregshin...if you wake up and go down to your car tommorow, and there is some white sticky gew right under your exhuast pipe....you'll know why!

 

Shoot, right there the TSX has a big advantage....reverse wheel drive also comes standard! :P

Also, please recognize the difference between features and drivetrain. I know better than to disrespect the 240, it is a very capable and moddable car.

 

dood...i dunno who you are...but that was DISTRUBING!!!

 

Honda/Acura needs a V8 in its line-up. The RL is nowhere near the forogtten Legend. I would kill for a 1995 Acura Legend Type-II 6-speed!

 

don't forget teh Euro/Jap Accord (aka VIGOR) with the 5cylinder engine & transaxle setup like a late '80's Audi

the Vigor didn't last long

didn't the 1st gen TL offer the 5 cylinder ??

 

I think that gregshin has several valid points. Acura has very bland styling -- you cannot begin to compare the TL or CL with the Infiniti G35 coupe -- now there's a sweet ride. Look at Acura's sales: TL, CL and RSX are all down -- and the RSX only out a year. Having said that, watch out for the next generation Acura if they beat out Honda for the Dualnote. >300 Hp from a hybrid sports car!!! V-6 and 2 electric motors and all wheel drive. Now that is going to kick some serious a--.

 

har har...i'm just in a weird mood. Just to set the record...I do think Acura's make good cars....I wont' doubt that. But really..a TSX and a 240sx arn't really comparable...except that they both have 'sx' at the end.

 

ACURA > *

 

whats that mean?

 

Anybody else notice that the newbies are out in full force in this thread?

 

yes.

 

Yeah. The Vigor became the 2.5TL.

 

Hey genius all car sales are down

The Rsx is in its 2nd year of production, almost 3rd.

Acura/Honda is "bland" because the car is designed to appeal to the masses and guess what, it does. Sure the G35 looks nice (stock spoiler is crap) but it doesnt outsell acura by a long shot. Its called a business plan and acura/honda's is appeal to as many people as possible.

How is acura going to beat out honda for the dualnote? They are the same damn company its will go under whichever nameplate honda sees fit.

Yes Zoot the newbs are on this thread in full and damn are they uneducated.