7500 RPM redline...
08-06-2007, 03:25 PM
#1
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7500 RPM redline...
a member with a cl-P swapped out his gauge cluster and now has a new fuel cut as a result 7100... i.e. the trigger is in the cluster almost certainly the rpm gauge...all anyone would have to do is clamp this out put signal and or intercept it with something like a vtec controler and trigger it when ever one desires... im not suggesting anyone go 9K but the benefits of going to 7500 i think will be signifigant
08-06-2007, 04:53 PM
#2
I Wanna Beer
My guess would be that he just has a mis-calibrated gauge. Fuel cutoff is controlled by the car's computer not the gauge cluster. The power starts to fall off right before redline so I see little benefit in raising the redline. Many engines have their redline set not because the engine can't handle it but because the accessories can't handle it (my previous car allowed you to raise the redline to 8k RPMS from 7.2K RPMS with the addition of UDPs).
08-06-2007, 05:58 PM
#4
Going from ClP cluster to a CLS cluster: from 1st-2nd; used to hit vtec at 4500, now 4600rpm. used to redline at 6500, now at 7100rpms
the video: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b...8201399da5.htm
the video: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b...8201399da5.htm
08-06-2007, 06:05 PM
#5
I Wanna Beer
If it's redlining a whole 600RPMs higher I think you may want to either put the old one back in or get it checked out. Your engine isn't likely designed for that higher redline. The CL-S has a higher compression and other changes made to allow the higher redline. Also, what does the car idle at now?
08-06-2007, 06:09 PM
#6
well the only way to confirm all this is to do it and dyno it. For some reason I think the engine can handle 8k. It's a strong engine and the only time I ever heard of someone blowing a motor is with too rich of a mixture with NOS and some extreme race fuel mixture. By the way has anyone tried jet fuel instead of race gas?
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08-06-2007, 06:18 PM
#8
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your redline is still 6500. lol just because your cluster says 7100 doesnt mean it revs that high. and your vtec crossover is not going to change just because changing of a cluster. your vtec hits the same but the cluster could be off about 100rpms. which is not unlikely. nice try though. and typer, i believe our engines wont benefit from a high redline like that unless we have larger cams or maybe FI. our redline was set at the optimum point. there isnt any more power after the redline.
08-06-2007, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CLsuperhero
well the only way to confirm all this is to do it and dyno it. For some reason I think the engine can handle 8k. It's a strong engine and the only time I ever heard of someone blowing a motor is with too rich of a mixture with NOS and some extreme race fuel mixture. By the way has anyone tried jet fuel instead of race gas?
08-06-2007, 06:28 PM
#10
I Wanna Beer
Exactly, look at some dyno graphs and you'll see that the power falls off around redline. There's no benefit to reving higher. If there was everyone would be using Unichips or other independent engine management to raise it.
08-06-2007, 06:43 PM
#13
Originally Posted by sinfulj32
your redline is still 6500. lol just because your cluster says 7100 doesnt mean it revs that high.
and the cluster only goes to 7000 before the red starts
08-06-2007, 06:48 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by sinfulj32
^werd, if there was mysterious power up there somewhere, then i guarentee you that honda would have set it higher.
08-06-2007, 06:59 PM
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ok now. headers and all those bolt ons do get you extra free'd up horsepower. but that will not produce more power after the cams run out of breath. no matter what. i totally agree that we could benefit from a bump to 7500, but i think that anything higher than that for example 8k would not be the best interest.
08-06-2007, 07:02 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by sinfulj32
ok now. headers and all those bolt ons do get you extra free'd up horsepower. but that will not produce more power after the cams run out of breath. no matter what. i totally agree that we could benefit from a bump to 7500, but i think that anything higher than that for example 8k would not be the best interest.
08-06-2007, 07:58 PM
#17
Originally Posted by typeR
yes thats why theu put headers on our cars instead of the crap cast manifolds cause they felt like throwing away 25 hp...thats why they included hi flow intakes cause we cant get 10+ hp from one of those and thats also why they put 8lb cast iron crank pulleys on our car cause a light weight one would cause it to instantly self destruct and not gain any power but the biggest proof that honda has done everything right is the bullet proof transmission...
08-06-2007, 08:09 PM
#18
Blown is Best
Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
On a 6mt there is. I hit the rev limiter when the car is still pulling. It could benefit from a bump to around 7500
My dyno still shows WHP climbing at redline. Eventhough my tach shows my engine reving to 7100rpm, the dyno shows fuel cutoff kicking in at 6882 rpm.
08-06-2007, 09:32 PM
#21
no way his redline increased from the gauge cluster. ECU controls that. as far as gaining power from a higher redline in n/a application... i'm still a bit skeptical. all of my dynos peak and then drop. i am n/a, but forced induction may be another thing all together.
08-06-2007, 10:18 PM
#22
Confused Maxima Owner
I dont know about this gauge cluster thing, but after seeing many dyno charts I'm quite sure CL-S's would benefit from the increased redline atleast till 7.5k, dunno about 8k tho but who knows, we need a guinea pig for this....
08-06-2007, 10:31 PM
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Im with you. I bet if you hook another tach up it will show that your cluster is off. I remember when I was installing a remote start on my integra the wire coming off the distributor was more accurate then the one going to the cluster. 
08-06-2007, 11:08 PM
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There is just absolutely no way that changing the gauge cluster has an effect on engine performance. No chance.
The easiest way to verify this is the use of a scan tool. Hook it up and take it to redline.
I'll bet $500 it hasn't changed.
The easiest way to verify this is the use of a scan tool. Hook it up and take it to redline.
I'll bet $500 it hasn't changed.
08-06-2007, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lowlt1
Im with you. I bet if you hook another tach up it will show that your cluster is off. I remember when I was installing a remote start on my integra the wire coming off the distributor was more accurate then the one going to the cluster.
No distributor on this car. Gotta use a scan tool.
08-06-2007, 11:21 PM
#28
Originally Posted by CleanCL
no way his redline increased from the gauge cluster. ECU controls that.
my 7000rpm smack: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7...830005ee4e.htm
08-06-2007, 11:23 PM
#29
Originally Posted by mrsteve
VTEC engagement on the CL-P is 5,500 RPM according to everything I've seen posted here and in the FAQ
here: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b...8201399da5.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4...8201395395.htm
I drive in this piece everyday...
08-06-2007, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by nbennettksu
man, I gave you a video that I took today in that other thread about the Cons of UR...its 4500rpm
How can a video show you when VTEC engages? You can't look at the gauges and say "hey lookie there, that's VTEC." It's 5,500 RPM.
08-06-2007, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nbennettksu
just telling you guys what I'm seeing...
my 7000rpm smack: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7...830005ee4e.htm
my 7000rpm smack: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7...830005ee4e.htm
And I could go take a sharpie and write a "1" next to the "7" on my gauges but that doesn't mean I'm hitting 17,000 RPM.
I'm guessing the font and spacing of the gauges is different on the CL-P and CL-S gauge face. All you did was replace one piece of plastic with another.
Take a scan tool and do a WOT run. You are not going to hit 7,100 RPM. The ECU controls the fuel cut and the VTEC engagement. Not the gauge.
08-06-2007, 11:31 PM
#32
THE J35A2...
i was contemplating on getting a valvetrain kit, but my car is acting up lately so i drop the idea. i still think, that this motor can handle more than 9000RPM. the space between vtec and redline is too short, that we have to shift so soon imo...
08-06-2007, 11:33 PM
#33
Originally Posted by mrsteve
How can a video show you when VTEC engages? You can't look at the gauges and say "hey lookie there, that's VTEC." It's 5,500 RPM.
08-06-2007, 11:34 PM
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I don't think I would want to spin past 8,000RPM.
Mainly because of the accessories and second because you'd need to come up with some different pulleys for the blower so you don't over spin the compressor.
Mainly because of the accessories and second because you'd need to come up with some different pulleys for the blower so you don't over spin the compressor.
08-06-2007, 11:35 PM
#35
Originally Posted by mrsteve
And I could go take a sharpie and write a "1" next to the "7" on my gauges but that doesn't mean I'm hitting 17,000 RPM.
I'm guessing the font and spacing of the gauges is different on the CL-P and CL-S gauge face. All you did was replace one piece of plastic with another.
Take a scan tool and do a WOT run. You are not going to hit 7,100 RPM. The ECU controls the fuel cut and the VTEC engagement. Not the gauge.
I'm guessing the font and spacing of the gauges is different on the CL-P and CL-S gauge face. All you did was replace one piece of plastic with another.
Take a scan tool and do a WOT run. You are not going to hit 7,100 RPM. The ECU controls the fuel cut and the VTEC engagement. Not the gauge.
08-06-2007, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by nbennettksu
buddy, you got ears don't you? Turn the volume up and you can hear the WOT. 4500rpm.
You can't just "hear" VTEC "buddy." It's 5,500 RPM. That's all there is to it.
08-06-2007, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nbennettksu
I never made an argument saying that its for sure I gained 600rpms, I simply stated in the other thread that I noticed it appeared to rev higher with the new cluster. Then, typeR got me doing all these visual tests and making videos...
The only "test" that will show any tangible evidence is the use of a scan tool to measure the RPM (determined by the ECU) at the fuel cut. I guarantee it's not the same as a CL-S.
If I'm wrong I'm starting a company tomorrow making gauges for these cars with redlines ranging from 7,000 to 12,000 RPM!
08-06-2007, 11:44 PM
#40
first off.......
To the morons whom think chaning the guage cluster changes redline...I got a bridge in brooklyn to sell you
Second........
To the morons whom think raising the redline to 7.5K plus....
Honda builds the engine based upon several factors
a. they hold back power or under rate on purpose so they can increase it if needed to compete with other manufacturers.
b. They will without a doubt choose engine longevity over a higher redline even if it means that they have to sacrafice some ponies to keep it that way.
c. It is by FAR cheaper to use cast/stamped parts than it is to use custom made parts such as light weight pullies or tubular exhaust manifolds.
The J series motors are nearly indistructable if properly maintained and their power output is very good or better compared to engines of similar displacement.
back to the first point.......
Redline is controlled by the ECU and not the guage cluster. Guage clusters are not very accurate. hook your engine scanning software into the data port and see what the ECU says the engine RPM is. ECU has to know exact RPM in order to properly run the engine.
To the morons whom think chaning the guage cluster changes redline...I got a bridge in brooklyn to sell you
Second........
To the morons whom think raising the redline to 7.5K plus....
Honda builds the engine based upon several factors
a. they hold back power or under rate on purpose so they can increase it if needed to compete with other manufacturers.
b. They will without a doubt choose engine longevity over a higher redline even if it means that they have to sacrafice some ponies to keep it that way.
c. It is by FAR cheaper to use cast/stamped parts than it is to use custom made parts such as light weight pullies or tubular exhaust manifolds.
The J series motors are nearly indistructable if properly maintained and their power output is very good or better compared to engines of similar displacement.
back to the first point.......
Redline is controlled by the ECU and not the guage cluster. Guage clusters are not very accurate. hook your engine scanning software into the data port and see what the ECU says the engine RPM is. ECU has to know exact RPM in order to properly run the engine.