Some lessons learned from our most recent install of a GEN I Package on mchtype-S CL-S:

1. L-10 TC has a transient stall of ~3000RPM
2. L-10 TC does allow for a harder launch (significantly more wheelspin w/VSA disabled than a stock TC)
3. L-10 TC feels mushy at RPM <3000 and in some cases of light throttle accel, may be confused as trans slippage....not the case.
4. L-10 TC made no discernable difference in HP measured at the wheel at any RPM. Mind you that you do not "launch" from 0 MPH on a DYNOJET, most pulls are in 3rd gear (SS)roll-on at 35MPH-118MPH (7100RPM). Although the stall at tip-in to WOT is noticable on the DYNO, the HP curve is consistent to that of a Stock TC. L-10 may have noted a transient at the point of stall = 20HP on some other type of DYNO. So don't think a 230HP -S w/headers will generate 250HP on the DYNO w/ a L-10 TC, it won't happen...

5. CAI makes no more horsepower than a stockbox w/modified air baffle tube (DYNO fact) however....CAI sounds great....so no why you are spending your cash....no go, a bit of show...and alot of sound.

6. Modified Greddy dual exhaust (from Accord 3.0 V6) makes +2HP difference from stock on broken in 3.5L mule. This system was borrowed from mchtype-S during Dyno runs alongside of mule car. Sounds good at 7000RPM though.

7. Secondary air valve worth 20HP at 6100 RPM but if pinned open will loose 10-15HP below the 3700RPM transition threshold...so don't get any bright ideas.

8. VTEC transition (w/VAFC) at lower RPM on stock motor (stock includes header/CAI) hurts torque curve and realizes no net gain in peak HP from 4500-7000 RPM....so don't bother.

I hope these tips help those of you making $$$ decisions. Happy Hunting!!!

 

syncivic,

Great info. Thanks! One question, regarding #5 remark. You said that CAI intake does not produce any more HP than the OEM air box with the resonator removed? Are you suggesting that by removing the resonator, you can gain 8-10 hp across the range? Please explain.

------------------
Frank
01-S White/Parchment
Comptech Sways & Springs

 

FDao,

Whoever told you that the a CAI produces 8-10HP accross the range is full of _____! However, there is no resonator under the stock box lower section, just a tube which comes from the bottom of the box to the front of the box through the inner apron. Sectioning this tube in half to draw air below the apron (where a CAI gets it) w/K&N Drop-In filter will produce the simalar gain of ~3HP peak (not accross the range). Get it?

 

Man that dyno sheet we saw on the TL board must be way wrong ...

[This message has been edited by charliemike (edited 04-28-2001).]

 

Doug, there is a dyno from Mike's car. He added a AEM CAI after he added the Comptech headers. I looked at the AEM CAI (averaged dyno plot [BTW -- I have my own technical questions about this method, but it can wait) and they do show about 8-10 HP at the top of the curve (not the whole range).

However, Mike did get substantial gains with the AEM CAI over the header. I'm going to see if I can grab the jpeg of the dyno.

I am curious about what you did to the air box to get the same increase in power vs. the AEM CAI. I have actually been interested in a "silenced" version of the system, with reduced pumping losses and cool air delivery. A resonator -- if designed well -- should not mess up power; it's like a well-done muffler, it doesn't loose much power either!


So, can you elaborate on the change to the "stock" air box, tube, etc.


Here is Mike's dyno with the red curve being the addition of the AEM CAI (236 HP (headers and AEM CAI vs. 228 HP (headers only):



------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

[This message has been edited by EricL (edited 04-28-2001).]

 

cmon, syncivic is just posting his results, great info, and fucking interesting!

hey syncivic, how's the other projects coming along with the type s?

------------------
'01 cl-s blk/blk :: comptech headers, comptech springs, comptech sway bars

 

I would also hope that people here wouldn't get the idea that the Level 10 torque converter is not "making" more power or even has reduced rotational mass to "increase" the reading on a DynoJet type of dyno.

The mush effect you mentioned (in an earlier comment sentence) is probably due to the change in "fin" profiles to allow for the higher stall speed. There is also a point that the converter is going to be "lock-up", so I wouldn't expect any dyno change.


I think falls into some things do not come for free category. (my 2 cents)

I am also wondering how much the LT-10 is going to help with take-offs, with the car already pressed to keep from over spinning the wheels at take off. I'm sure some drag slicks and a wheel bar would help *and* I'm sure that Level-10 know what they are doing, but the notes here seem to indicate that the 1/4 mile launch is a problem. So, is more wheel spin actually a "good" thing (yes/no)?


BTW – Do you have any torque/hp numbers you can post or send?


------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

 

We are discussing things here (yes/no)?

I'm asking some questions *and* want some clarifications. Do you see me bashing him? Is the pursuit of knowledge wrong?

He is working on a cool project, there is some info that is worth knowing. e.g. -- the air box fix would save a lot of money, and if it so (with just a regular engine), I would probably take off my CAI, lose the noise and get the same HP. So, do I sound like I'm bashing him?




------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

 

not at all. i'm not starting anything, in fact, like you pointed out, i'm also interested if he can make gains like the AEM intake from just modifying the stock intake. . jeesh!


------------------
'01 cl-s blk/blk :: comptech headers, comptech springs, comptech sway bars

 

so cal Types,

I agree with EricL. We're not bashing syncivic. We're very interested in his results. Asking questions will only help us to learn more about his project and methods of testing.

Syncivic,

My mistake, 8-10HP peak is more correct, but how do you explain all those Dyno tests that showed a significant increase in HP with the CAI? What did you do the intake setup?

------------------
Frank
01-S White/Parchment
Comptech Sways & Springs

 

Show us some dynos, could care less about what you think. I wanna see fact. Half of the stuff you just said doesn't even make sense from the dynos I have seen. Next time come with some proof. I am not trying to be a dick but to be honest it looks like your just spouting things off.



------------------
2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
Comptech Springs, Exhaust, Headers
AEM CAI, Pulleys
Denso Spark Plugs
Apexi V-AFC

 

I'm curious about this, EVERY and I mean EVERY dyno chart from a j30a Accord to a j32a2 CL-S has seen b/w 6-10hp from a short tube or CAI intake.

All of the dyno sheets I have seen were from DynoJet 248c model dyno's.

What type of dyno are you using for your dyno's? I'm not saying your dyno results are wrong, just that they differ from EVERY other dyno that we have seen done on a V6 Honda engine with an intake.

I also realize that every car is different and that just because one car gets or does not get X amount of HP from X mod does not mean that every other car will get X HP from X mod.

------------------
2000 Acccord LX V6 Sedan
- Eibach Pro-Kit Springs& Koni Yellow Shocks
- AEM Short Ram Intake
- AEM Tru-Power Pulleys
- Jet Hot Coated CompTech Headers
- 15.45 @ 88.8mph (Track)

[This message has been edited by BNut (edited 04-29-2001).]

 

DUDE YOU CANT BE SERIUOIS!

you sure your not mixing up the Type S, and the Jag S-Type??????



------------------
2001 CL-S
Black/Black
Moonroof Visor
35% Tint All Around
Black Wood Dash Kit
Currently on TL rims with Nokian Winter Tires
My Bitch

 

***NOTICE***

I will say this only once....look carefully at the Dyno pulls posted on this thread. Did anyone realize that it took 18 Runs to get a posting to graph as a comparative. Also, of note, is the fact that the engine appears to "Rev" higher (by 150RPM) than previous pulls on other days.....Wheel mass change???Settings change?????Loss of the exhaust system??? A combination of many things....A VAFC....The Dyno graph looks like the Cam is timed around 4700RPM....

I gave the Dyno graph to mchtype-S for his preliminary results to post because I made a deal with a magazine that they would be the first (exclusive) to post them in print on a car feature done with us. So chill and ask mchtype-S to share if your curious...he will tell you that I'm not full of _____!

 

And another thing, in S Fla, as the ambient air temp approaches the underhood IAT, would you consider anthing short of a NOS fogger a cold air system???? Maybe this is why at 95-100F Ambient we see only +3HP gains with a CAI vs. stock....make sense???? What would be the gain if the ambient draw is 59F (ISA day)

 

Will the AEM CAI remain as part of the 3.5 upgrade, considering your new findings?

------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S, Comptech Springs, M-6 and other superwhite bulbs here and there

 

Syncivic,would it be fair to say then with the hood shut on a dyno a CAI such as Xephyr or AEM will make power if compared to a completely stock intake?You said you had a modified stock intake on the CL that in effect is doing the same thing as a CAI so the comparison to me seems unfair since both AEM,Xephyr and others are comparing their systems to stock nonmodified factory intakes.
I have to believe that on a normal day out on the road a nonmodified intake drawing it's air from underhood as it should will be outperformed by an intake that draws cooler air from a nonunderhood source.
On a dyno as far as I have seen,runs are accomplished hood open and typically with some sort of fan to help the cooling system function,however this is not really how cars are driven so although there are obviously dyno pulls that show little or no improvement in performance they are also accomplished in a way that cars are not driven on the street.
I am not an engineer by any stretch so if I am wrong what can I say but everything I have heard or learned has always said that cool air is dense air and dense air is more air and more air combined with more fuel equals more power.
Are you going to the spring nationals at Englishtown? we will be there on Sunday hopefully I'll get a chance to take a peek at that Civic you have.Jens

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1992 mazda Miata lowered with Eibach springs KYB AGX adjustable struts Sparco racing buckets 4 point safety harnesses Momo steering wheel lo profile headlite system with PIAA superwhite bulbs Custom audio system Custom gauges Jackson racing supercharger with header and Greddy cat back exhaust and a ton of other stuff 2000 Honda Civic on APEX coilovers Full Alpine Audio system factory fogs with Piaa bulbs Catz ZETA high beam headlamp system H.I.D. Xenon low beam tinted, custom taillites and on and on

 

Doug, I believe Mike had only changed the tires at this point, but I'm not sure of this. I asked him about the change in the rpm cut-off, but he is the one to ask about this.

There have been other dynos, so the gains from the CAI seem to be 6-10 HP.

I would think you would get penalized if the temp and humidity are in the range you have suggested (in your area) (just my opinion)...

Finally, if and when you post the dyno, it would be worth pointing out that it is the area under the curve is very important from an acceleration perspective and reduced rotational and fixed mass is important for acceleration too.



------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic