A very reputable source told me that the '03 CL-S has slightly more horsepower than the '01 through '02 models - think it has to do something with G35C's 280hp number.

Exhaust is different, plus there are some internal tweaks. The published number's (260hp) were not changed.

Anybody else heard this? It's odd they wouldn't change the published value, though.

It appears the '03 cars are dyno'ing better #'s too!

 

if acura increased the HP why wouldnt they want everyone to know about it??? seems totally silly that they would make improvements to a car to help it sell, then not tell anyone about the improvements....i dont beleive it....besides, stock CL-S have a window of dynoing like 190-205 so maybe your freinds 2003 was a high dyno-er and other 2001 cars were lower dyno-ers....

 

I agree w/Jim. Did your source give you a hp # for the 03s?

 

there's actually cars out there that are dynoing under 200? man what up wit that so they lost 70hp's through the drivetrain.are you guys sure about these #'s. i've seen like around 30-40 hp losses but 70!!!????

 

I was told 5%... so that's 13hp... so say 273.

It might be bogus... that's why I am asking you folks!!

 

OR it could be possible that the CL-S's never made 260hp to begin with and Honda is playing catch-up!!

 

Yes... that is true... with Pulleys, Iridium plugs and CAI and 18" wheels And I dynoed 191 WHP as a baseline...

The CLS is very sensitive to weather conditions

 

yeah but most cars are sensative to weather conditions, man i really can't believe these dyno nmbrs

 

Talking about not making the 260 to begin with...

Most cars I have owned and worked on... never had a 60-70hp loss at the wheels.

B18C... 170hp... 150hp at the wheels (stock)
H22A... 200hp... 173hp at the wheels (stock)
NSX... 270hp... 246hp at the wheels (stock '92)

Recent CL-S 6spds have been dyno'ing 245 at the wheels WITH headers!!
Most are dyno'ing 190-215 with or without mods... something IS fishy!!

 

how about some stock 03 auto time slips. then you'd have your answer.

maybe nitrotigers 14.6 stock 01 had the 03 prototype

 

Part of Honda's R&D effort.. I presume?

 

i was j/k. i don't buy the hp bump. slips will tell.

 

I dynoed stock 197 hp on my 02. It was over 100 degrees in the garage that dynoed my car too. ehhe.

 

The 245 wasn't only headers. lol

A guy dynoed a while back with cai, headers, exhaust on a cl-s 6spd and got 230s~.

 

I know that the 03' 6-speed has been dyno'd. Has anyone dyno'd a 03' auto?

 

230 whp?? with headers exhaust and cai??? WAT THE FUK IS GOIN ON??

Even 245 whp with headers is a DISGRACE.!!

Wats goin on???

PH

 

So I guess the question is, do our car's really make 260 or is it more like 240ish??? What have the Altima's and Maxima's dnyo'd at the wheels??

 

Take a look at Comptech's dyno graphs for the NSX and then the CL-S with a header (2000 model).

The 'wheel' horsepower is significantly different (stock vs. stock)

NSX: 268 stock... 291 (H/E) (that's a 2000 model with 290hp)
CL-S: 208 stock... 232 (H) (that's a 2000 model with 260hp)


There's only supposed to be a 30hp difference... looks more like 60+ to me!!

 

no cl-s in 2000

nsx is a manual

 

Well... that's good point... probably a 2001, in which case Comptech's data is incorrect!

 

Let's talk about a math concept called percentages. Automatic trannies typically loose between 20-30% of their power, mainly to the torque converter. The CLS makes a lot of power and therefore will loose a lot of power. Even using your figure of 70hp loss, that still works out to be around 27%....very typical for for an auto.

B18C... 170hp... 150hp at the wheels (stock)
H22A... 200hp... 173hp at the wheels (stock)
NSX... 270hp... 246hp at the wheels (stock '92)


All of the cars you listed above are equipped with manuals and lose between 9% (NSX) to 12%.

Here is one last tradeoff to think about. The Legend I drive is notorious for a very harsh 1-2 shift, but from the dyno's on the board are losing around 24-25%. The TLS/CLS tranny is much smoother but looses a little more. Which do you care for, speed or comfort?

 

guys its not the amount thats lost thats all that important, its the PERCENTAGE, and also typically an automatic loses twice as much as a stick. Auto's lose around 25%, sticks more like 12-13%.
25% of 260 is 65, so I'd expect an auto CL-S to get 195 stock, which is about the average with people being higher and lower then that.

 

I disagree that the auto tranny loses TWICE that of a manual. I understand how a torque convertor works... and the loss cannot be attributed to this.

A dyno measures the power the car can produce (at the wheels) to turn the rollers... so any representation by a manufacturer about crank hp is innacurate description of the actual 'power' of the car!?!

BUT, your 30% loss through an auto-tranny is ridiculous... no regular auto-tranny loses 30% of the horsepower!!

It should be more in the line of 3% to 8% MORE than a manual-tranny.

The only way to check this is to dyno the SAME engine with an auto tranny and a m/t tranny... <-- this will never happen, but still!

 

The 6spd Max gets around 205 stock. Autos not sure.

 

"The 6spd Max gets around 205 stock. Autos not sure"


Then why does the 'stock' NSX put 268 (out of a 290hp motor) and the CL puts 205 (out of a 260hp motor)?? You mean to tell me that CL tranny loses 21.2% while the NSX tranny loses only 9%? I have owned both cars... and the 'smooth shift' or whatever one might say about the tranny is also ridiculous!!

 

 

The only difference that I heard between the '03 and other years was that the engine has been "ribbed" under the block for strengthening of the block. Also, the cylinders are now lined like the S2000 for heat disapation. The only other differences that come to mind are no driving lights and the rear tail lights were re-done. I don't remember anything said about horsepower.

 

I can't believe I am reading this. Dude, you obviously have no real world experience in performance cars and how the parts work. A auto tranny typically loses 25%~ and 5spds manuals around 10-15%.

Let's see here for comparison. Auto 2000 Maxima SE, dynos 164hp, but a 5spd dynos 184hp. Car rated at 222hp.

Okay we can go with one car that was underated..

TransAm 6spd, 284 hp to the wheels, rated at 305 when its actually 345 like the c5 vette.
Auto dynos about 10 hp less, but the TransAm Autos are very efficient for some reason. Most cars are not.

 

]

A CL-S stock does not put 205 for the auto. It's in the 190s to every dyno I have seen. The 6spd dynos 215 hp for the CL-S.

The NSX maybe UNDERATED like GM does on alot of cars. IT HAPPENS.

 

EVERYONE LOOK AT ASTROBOYS STOCK TLS DYNO.. 204 WHP and 201TQ
WTF?!?!?!>............ its in the dyno forum.. how do you explain that?....

 

Really? You understand how a torque converter works yet you fail to see why automatics loose more HP? Riiight.

Manuals have a direct connection from the flywheel of the motor through the gearbox to the ground.

Automatics push around fluid to make their connection to the gearbox, last time I checked fluids don't transfer power as effectively as solids.

Also, to compare the manual in the NSX to even the CL manual is not entirely fair. Im sure that Honda put a lot more time and R&D into the NSX tranny to get every effficiency of power transfer and to make the tranny as light as possible. Lighter parts of course sap less power from the system.

 

Different dynos have different calibration. It could have been slightly off, or the equipment might read different pressures, temp, etc.

Most I have seen are in teh 190s.

 

"Really? You understand how a torque converter works yet you fail to see why automatics loose more HP? Riiight. "

Dude... my gripe here is that I don't see how the auto tranny loses TWICE as much power through the drivetrain than the manaul.... NOT that the auto will lose more than manual - you want to consistently prove yourself right... you arn't reading properly! Yes, some tranny's have more R&D behind them, while
others are just run-of-the-mill bolt-ons without much effort behind their efficiency. 5% to 10% is what seems to be the consensus on this.

Just making a point here... I really don't care if the auto loses 50% of its power (I don't own an auto... for that matter).

The bottom-line for these #'s is performance at the track - and here, the driver is key... +/-10hp can be used well or just wasted.

If your car makes 220whp and mine makes 240whp, but you run a faster E.T., what good has that 240whp done... nada!

 

Torque is actually in the 180's not 201 which happens right when the dyno starts. TL-S doesn't make peake torque at 2,500 rpm's, that's most likely something to do with the torque converter.

But yea, the 204whp is impressive for his car considering its a stock automatic. Then again every car is gonna dyno a little bit different, you gonna have some lemons and some ringers.

 

Heres the reasons why:

Check out Vtec.net's Dyno video and under car analysis video
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=80983