amurobo

Hi Guys,

I wonder if you can suggest what kind of snow tires is good? My body shop suggest Nokian but it's quite expensive and I can't seems to find any good review from it.

I can't even find it at 1010tires.com.

Any suggestions?

sauceman

Toyo G02s: The best all around performance. Only downside, a very sloppy ride on dry pavement.

Michelin Pilot Alpin: Very good handling in dry weather, excellent in sludge, but average traction on snow and ice. Very durable.

Bridgestone Blizzaks: Excellent traction on ice and snow. Not as good in sludge, and sloppy on dry pavement. Those tires melt.

Those are my top 3 for harsh winters. I've been told good about Pirellis, though it seems they are not very durable.

Goodyear UltraGrip Ice, don't make me go there.

amurobo

Thanks very much for the detail,

How about Nokian? have you heard of that brand?

sauceman

I tried Nokians back in 95, and I'm sorry to say, but I wasn't really impressed with them. But maybe their lineup of tires has been improved since then.

bob shiftright

I think the Finnish Nokians are probably the best studded tires around. I had Dutch Vredestein studded snows on my Volvo, the problem is that the studs are incredibly noisy. For several reasons, including the extra wear it causes the highway, the noise, and the poorer handling and braking characteristics on everything but ice, the studded designs are being replaced by hydrophilic compounds.

After 6 seasons I finally bought a set of studless Michelins for the Volvo.

If studded tires are legal where you drive, and you want studs, then I'd recommend the Nokians. Otherwise, not.

stocker2000

I don't hav a tsx (yet), but on my current fwd car, I've got the Michelin Pilot Alpins, and would have to agree with saucemean's assessment; they're a harder compound, so they'll last much longer if your winter driving includes mostly well-plowed roads. Snow an ice traction is average, but I have yet to ever get stuck, and I live at the top of a steep, dead-end road which is always last to get paved. My ride feels a bit softer with them on, but that is probably due to the fact they my summer tires are 16", and my winters are 15" (more rubber).
I looked at the Bridgestones, but my research showed that the excellent snow/ice traction was due to a softer compound...not good for durability on plowed (i.e. bare ashphalt) roads. The cops where I am use the micheline pilot alpins year-round because they have great durability (they don't "melt" like the bridgestones) and offer great traction in mud too, should you decide to go off-roading in your TSX! Mostly, it saves them from having to stock and change out extra wheels and tires.
I would recommend the Pilot Alpins to anybody in an urban area.

DEVO

Depends on the weather... if it snows a lot in your area then I would go with the Blizzaks. They are the best in snowing conditions... also when the snow is packed down (almost ice).

n1x0n

I have Toyo Garit HT in the stock tire size (215/50-17) and they perform quite well, IMO better than the Michelin Pilot Alpin's we have on our other car (16" tires). These Toyo's feel extremely good at higher speeds for snow tires and I find the noise/feel at 100mph compared to the stock all-seasons to be closely matched.

I'm sure the G-02's have better performance in the snow, but 95% of the time in Calgary during the winter, that snow isn't on the streets. And my stock TSX is in no shape to go offroading ;p

joechan

I went with the icetrac from canadian tire and they seems pretty good so far and they are a lot cheaper compare to others. It all depends on how you drive, our crv had the blizzaks on for the fifth winter and it still got lot of tread left






2004 TSX 6MT
1998 CRV
2002 PCR Rotaxmax

TSriX

For an extensive discussion on snow tires check out this thread

http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...?threadid=3150

I followed it for weeks before making a decision. In the end I didn't go with the general consensus for Pirelli Snowsport 210 or Pilot Alpins but chose Dunlop Wintersport M3s due to consumer reports 2nd highest rating for the previous generation Dunlop M2s. They were no. 2 behind Goodyear Eagle Ultragrip GW2 and well ahead of the Pilot Alpins and ahead of the Pirellis. Tire rack gives them a good rating as well, ahead of the Pirellis but a hair behind a set of Blizzaks.

I am extremely pleased with their dry performance as I can't feel or hear any difference with the stock Michelin all seasons. To date we have only had one real snowfall and they performed adequately. There are better choices for snow but for every day driving in a metropolitan area that will have cleared streets 75% of the winter they are perfect. When I head to the chalet in the mountains with the wife and kids I take an AWD with much more aggressive snows.

tony4311

Did any of you guys order online? I checked a couple sites but they said they didn't have winter tires in the stock size.

tsxer.ca

Michelin Pilot Alpin. no question asked..

iTimmy

Hello,

As a tire dealer of many many brands I can assure you that Nokian's tire technology is absolutely state of the art and offers the BEST winter tires period. I am tirestarz dealer(which is Bridgestone/Firestone tire and rubber company thing), I sell all brands and Nokian's are on my car(s) and those I care about. I can go in to details about how I can back these statements up if need be. I have driven on every make and model of current production tire(sans the really cheap stuff) and the current Nokian line is peerless in winter traction. The Hakkapeliitta 2 is available studless this year and will make your vehicle nearly unstoppable in winter and will last longer then any other winter tire. The artic alpin's are a poor excuse of a snow, as are the Florida designed Goodyears, the bridgestones offer fair performance however the multi-cell compound is only for the first 45% of the tire's life, so would you rather buy half of a snow tire or a whole snow tire??? which way is cheaper??? Hope I have not offended any one there seems to be a lot of confusion about this and pride of ownership tends to eclipse the truth.

T Sexy

Hi all,

Well since I chose to buy a TSX because I wanted to drive a drivers car I wanted to get good snow tires that would allow me to still drive the car and have fun in the winter. I live in Ottawa, so we get quite a bit of snow and black ice so I know how to drive in the winter. I chose to go with Yokohama V901s. They were highly rated and are performance winter tires. This way I figure I can still drive with enjoyment despite the weather.

As I just got my TSX last week and have only just got the snows put on I have yet to see if they will do what I expect them to!

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Please do. If it's good, we can get it made a sticky for snow tire recommendations.

Personally, I'm looking to pic up some snows in the off-season for my extra rims...maybe they'll be on closeout.

iTimmy

Lung Fu Mo Shi- Nokian has a very different approach to building a snow tire and being a tire company in general. They don't want to be the largest, they want to be the best- and the markets that they compete in the often are. They also feel every dollar spent on advertising is a dollar that is NOT spent on R&D, hence no blimp or race team, though they have started a minimal advertising regime in the USA. Before we get into the tire construction and the boring details, when you look at Nokian and what they stand for they are very unlike any other tire manufacturer and most business in general. The engineer's set out to make a 10% improvement across the board anually on there tires. That in itself is unheard of from any other company I know, and the scary part is they achieve this! The reason the strive for such success is really quite selfish- when asked why they try so hard to improve tires that are already so good the answer is "because our families ride on these tires". Some more information about Nokian, they invented winter tires- fwiw. They have the only year round winter test facility- more on that in a little bit. Did you know that Finnland(where Nokian is from) has 9 months of winter, for them its not a season, its a way of life. They had to adapt, oh and did I mention every Finnish person thinks they are Mario Andretti! They drive like maniac's, so they needed tires that could hold up and would be safe. Finnland's reputation around the world speaks for itself- if you think the USA is on the ball, look into Finnland, very innovative and dedicated people. Nokian's automation is all done in house(again this is a rare in the tire biz). As Nokian was growing they need more space and couldn't find a suitable building, so they adapted, there tire production is all hanging from the ceilling of there building working up there while other things can be done below- effectively doubling there work space- pretty clever.

About the tires themselves: Well first of all there(winter and all weather+ tires only) tires are built on Jointless nylon belts. This is important for a number of reasons but the most important is the shape the tread leaves on the ground, when a tire has jointless nylon belt its tread pattern on the road is more boat hull shaped then a block, it almost goes to a point, which allows greater surface contact(that equates to a greater repsonsiveness). A tire with conventionally wound belts will have a smaller contact area, and it will not go to a point at the front and the back- which reduces slush traction, rain traction, snow traction, etc.. A conventionally wound belt will have seams in it(those are the little dents you often see in tires), these seams are MUCH more prone to damage then any other part of the tire, this is very important with winter driving because your tires are getting abused. I will try and pick up the pace here a little bit, if anything is covered enough let me know and I can get you further details about specefic areas. Nokian's use segmented molds, this costs more to make the tire but the tire's come out more uniformily balance better(require less weight to balance them), a lot of other companies are catching on but many are not. All Nokian tires are directional, its very important that the engineer knows which way the tire is going to gain optimal traction in ANY driving condition- it only makes sense. Look at it this way F1 race slicks that have no treat on them are directional, it goes beyond the tread into the construction of the tire and how the plies are arranged. Nokian uses the highest percentage of natural rubber in the bead area compared to any other company- sometimes mother nature knows best, natural rubber maintains its qualities to lower tempertures then some of the synthetics, this will reduce slow leaks in the bead area during winter which is very common. They use a square tightly wound steel belt- again this isn't the cheapest way but they best way- this allows the tire to have greater contact with the wheel, thus reducing possible leaks. I could keep on going and going but I am sure most of you have stopped reading by this time! But one last thing.....

You know how I told you nokian is peerless when it comes to winter tires, well this isn't a theory just from me. Any one who has a chance to go to Ivalo Finnland- nokian's year round test facility will experience it first hand. Nokian clearly isn't stupid, they buy all of there competetor's tires and try them in a controled enviroment. They will set up a course on there track and send you out with bridgestones, then you come back and try the artic alpin's then put on a set of Gislavad's, then try a set of pirelli's so you are trying all of these tires on the same vehicle on the same track and the results always come back the same- nokian on top. Go to there website and read for yourself http://www.nokiantires.com or http://www.nokiantyres.com One final thing, anyone who thinks the artic alpin's offer good winter traction has never experienced a good winter tire, I put so many cars into snow banks on those tires!

And no I do NOT work for Nokian Tyres, I am an independent dealer who happens to know an awful lot about tires and am impressed time and time again with what Nokian produces. If any of you doubt how tire crazed I really am, the licese plate on my car is the same as my moniker here!

Thanks for taking the time to read all of that!!

TSX Hokie

Tireguy, any opinion of the Dunlop Winter Sport M3 tires? They seem to be ideal for moderate winters (<6" snow), while still having good dry grip and treadlife.

hata_teru

I've been using Pirelli Winter SnowSport 210 for the last winter. They give good traction on snow.

JeffTSX

I use Canadian Tire Nortic Trac and it was GRRREAT for me.

sauceman

The key thing here, you just said it: "controlled environment".

On our roads, we don't get a controlled environment; we get it all. It is easy for a tire company to controll a track and give it the conditions that will best suit their own tire and make another look bad.

There's no better cure for this than comparing tires in a non-controlled environment on long-term comparisons.

As for the Michelin Arctic Alpins, I absolutley agree with you, these tires are an enigma. But I don't think the discussion in that thread, or any winter tire thread for that matter included much debate over these tires anyway.

iTimmy

Its clear you don't understand what there facility is capable of. Its THE ONLY test facility in the world capable of reproducing real world winter driving scenarios consistantly. Its impossible to test two unlike products with out an even playing field. Then again you have already shared your feelings with us about Nokian from '95, I drove an Acura in '95 didn't do much for me, but now, nearly TEN years later things have changed(btw back then it was Nokia). The point of Ivalo is that they not only have a consistant real world enviroment to test on, but study what causes winter accidents and work on coming up with solutions to prevent winter accident. We all remember the two cars driving on the hockey rink, after all it is common place to encounter polished ice on your drive home in snow


I stand to make nothing from this and have been in the biz for over 10 years and am sharing experiences from a very wide range of consumers. Across the board I get consistantly positive feedback about Nokian in particular in winter- that does not happen with ANY other brand I sell, it is more then hype.

sauceman

I'll have to look into it once my Pilot Alpins go. How do they act in slush? And are they rigid enough on dry conditions?

bob shiftright

I have the Dunlop Winter Sport M2s, mounted on 16" Accord LX steelies, and I'm not as impressed as I've been by either the studded Vredesteins or unstudded Artic Alpins. I drove up to Boston right after the big snowstorm last year and the TSX's ABS and traction control were engaging a lot. As the Swedish snowmeisters at Volvo used to pontificate (but no longer bother), "tall" are "narrow" are desirable attributes in a winter tire but "wide" and "squat" are desirable attributes in a summer tire. So I may be comparing apples and oranges in the snow here.

BTW, is there something about late August that makes people start to think about winter tires??? Before I came over, I started a thread over on one of the Volvo boards about winter tires today!

TSriX

TSX Hokie,

I have the M3 tires and believe for moderate winters they would be fine. My impression after using them last winter (Canada not Virginia) are that they are an excellent compromise because they are great when the roads are clear. They handle well and are as quiet as the stock tires.

The snow performance is acceptable but not confidence inspiring. The reason I feel this way may have to do with the fact that I came from an AWD Subaru with Arctic Alpins and had no fear driving that car thru the snow. I am more tentative with the FWD TSX on the Dunlops. The tires will slip under hard acceleration but if you drive normally they will give you good grip and cornering. I made it through the winter without any mishaps but I did drive less aggressively.

ianS

Yup, I totally agree with you that Nokian is the best snow tire I ever have. But it seems hard to find it in Canada now. Last year I tried Semperit winter sport. They are not bad and also they are dirt cheap! only $130Cdn/tire for 225/45/17. But dunno how long it last! tireguy, do you know nething about semperit?

dom

I have semperits as well Ian. Only mine are 205/60/16, paid them cost at $75 each. I was pretty happy with them and was wondering how long they should last as well.